What's so unique about Harvard

Colleges and Universities A-Z Harvard University
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<p>My favourite school is Williams college. I really love the school culture, acadamic program, community etc. However, I keep thinking about whether I should try to transfer to Harvard bos, well, it's Harvard. Could someone tell me whether I should do that? Is there anything that only Harvard can offer? Is it true that Harvard reputation can give you a huge boost to carrer advancement and Williams is nowhere close to Harvard in this aspect? Thanks!</p>

<p>I want to major in economics and later pursue an MBA</p>

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<p>Friend: one of the most important determinants for transfer admits( with about a 2% admit rate) is a clear and profound reason why the student wants to attend Harvard. Given your questions, I think you should perhaps reconsider this route.</p>

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<p>Are you currently a student at Williams or just a prospective student at both?</p>

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<p>Thanks for your advice. What I’m asking is whether there is any “clear and profound reason” that Harvard undergrad education is better. I would really appreciate it if you can give me your opinions on that :)</p>

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<p>Prospective student at Williams</p>

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<p>Harvard definitely has better financial aid than Williams. Subjectively, Harvard’s name may open more doors for you when you graduate. Beyond that, you will probably receive just as good an education at Williams as you would at Harvard. That said, Williams is in the middle of cow fields; there is one main street with about a dozen stores. Harvard is in the city of Cambridge, a bustling suburb of Boston. Each school has a totally different feel. Kids that like the activity of a city would probably be board with the purple mountains of Williams, and vice-versa. A regular poster to this board is etondad (Cambridge–MA, not UK), who is also a professor at Harvard. I believe he has a son at Williams and could add a lot to this discussion.</p>

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<p>

Categorically, no. You should not try to transfer to Harvard because it’s Harvard. Maybe that’s a reason to visit Harvard to check out what “it’s Harvard” means, but it’s a really bad reason to apply there, as a freshman or as a transfer. And, as is pointed out above, the success rate of transfer applicants with this attitude is a lot closer to 0% than the average, which is already darn close to 0%</p>

<p>

Well, yes. A degree that says “Harvard” on it. (Actually, it probably says Universitas Harvardiana, but same thing.) Apart from that, no. Dozens (at least) of educational institutions around the world, but mainly in the U.S., offer any particular individual student the same or better opportunities than he or she would have at Harvard. </p>

<p>That doesn’t mean that I don’t think Harvard is the greatest university in the world, which (a bit reluctantly), I do. Across scores of fields and subfields, as well as various professional schools, I think Harvard has the strongest faculty and most resources. So what? Any one undergraduate student can take advantage of 0.005% of that, and only if he or she is really diligent and lucky, too. An equivalent (or better) 0.005% is available at Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Chicago, Columbia . . . and Williams, Amherst, not to mention Oxbridge . . . except at some of those schools it may be 0.5%, or even 1%, of what’s available. That means those institutions on the whole are not in the same category as Harvard, not that they don’t provide equally valuable education (in the broadest sense) to their undergraduate students.</p>

<p>As a slightly different point – at the core of Harvard’s greatness is having a top 5 or top 10 department in more fields than anyone else. But there are many more fields where some other university has a better faculty (and graduate students) overall than Harvard than there are fields where Harvard is the clear #1. So, depending on your interests, you could often do better. However, that’s completely theoretical, because from the standpoint of undergraduate education it’s completely meaningless whether your department is #1, #4, or #15. You won’t even be able to begin to tell the difference, and the overall quality of your experience will depend on a host of different factors, some of them random, that have nothing to do with faculty and grad student quality or resources.</p>

<p>There’s one other thing that Harvard alone can give you: anxiety about being at Harvard and not living up to the image you have of that. You can get a sort of version of that at a number of colleges, but it seems more widespread and more severe at Harvard than elsewhere, and I think it infects the atmosphere a bit more. Not that everyone feels it, or feels crippled by it, but it’s there. And at Williams, not so much.</p>

<p>

No, on two separate grounds. First, Harvard’s reputation (or any college’s) does not give you a huge boost to career advancement. Everyone, including Harvard grads, has to perform. Harvard alumni, being generally pretty good at performing, tend to do well at things they undertake, but people who are just as smart and just as skilled who go to other colleges do just as well in the world. Harvard is a nice label, but there are plenty of other nice labels out there, and no label means that much once your career gets underway, or means much more than the next 10-20 labels.</p>

<p>Second, at least in the world of American business/finance elites, Williams is a great label, too. It has universal recognition and respect. Not necessarily among cab drivers or soccer moms, but absolutely among investment bankers, corporate board members, dealmakers. Is it as great as the Harvard label? Maybe not exactly. And that doesn’t matter at all.</p>

<p>When you look at the stars on the red carpet at the Oscars, there isn’t one who has said “I have to wear Dior, because it’s a more famous label than this Jason Wu that looks better on me.” No, they wear the dress that fits them, that looks good on them, and that has a good enough label, because that’s the best strategy. No one is going to want to [whatever] them because of who designed their dress; their success depends on the actress looking great, not the designer, even as the designer’s rep gives a little extra shine to the star. Same, frankly, with colleges. “Wearing” the college that makes you feel great about yourself and fits your personality is way better than having a college that’s a little more famous than the next person’s but doesn’t work for you.</p>

<p>Now, that said, 18 year-olds are pretty malleable, and most would do fine at a variety of colleges. But Harvard and Williams are about as different as two institutions with the same values, the same demographics, the same state, and about 150 miles apart could be. My kids were familiar with Williams because their grandparents lived near by, and they had no interest whatsoever in going to college in that setting. But other people – smart people, people who are going to be really successful – are just completely turned on by it, and would find Harvard depressing and distracting. If you think you are in that group, Williams (or someplace like it) is a MUCH better college for you than Harvard. </p>

<p>Bottom line: The college that excites you most, makes you feel best, and inspires you most to do your best work, is the college that is going to further your career (and your life) most. And that college isn’t Harvard for everyone. It isn’t Harvard for most people.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much! Frankly, to me, after reading a lot of negative opinions of harvard undergrad education especially for those major in econ, i really believe williams can give me a better education (especially the academy-wise). The reason why the idea of transferring to harvard haunts me is that i feel getting into harvard is a greater achievement than getting into williams and part of me just wants to strive for the better. And also i feel that being in a hyper-competitive environment can bring the best of me and being surrounded by the best and the brightest of the world excites me.</p>

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<p>Arrghh! It feels as though you just read and then completely ignored an incredibly well-written and helpful piece of advice (JHS’s). If that is how you still feel after asking this question and getting great advice here and I assume on the Williams thread, you should just go ahead with your plan to attend Williams and then transfer to Harvard. That way you will have the best of both worlds. All that remains is the small matter of getting into each school. Best of luck! This thread should probably end here.</p>

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<p>Thank you, gibby, for alerting me to this thread. Goodness. While both institutions are institutions of excellence there is such a profound difference between an undergraduate education in a research university of which a college is a part and a liberal arts college that one has a hard decision as to where to begin.</p>

<p>I suppose without writing a long treatise (which some of my posts have become, I’m afraid), I would turn the question around-- why the change from Williams. If it is just because of urban vs. rural that is silly. If it is bc somehow one thinks Harvard will have a larger clout post graduate, well, frankly, that is even more silly–Williams graduates do equally as well in almost any measure as Harvardians in terms of placement in jobs, graduate and professional schools–the only place where Williams has not stacked up–and they are improving (and they know they need to improve) --is in winning the most competitive fellowships.</p>

<p>No the only reason to switch is because one does not want/need a collegiate experience and instead wants to act in a way that moves beyond undergraduate education by either being a quasi-graduate student immediately or to concentrate ones efforts on an extracurricular activity that will lead to post graduate benefits (such as being a CrimEd if one seeks a career in journalism…). </p>

<p>Now I have a child in both institutions so I can compare and contrast. I cannot imagine my daughter being happy at Harvard, nor my son at Williams but that is because what they want and need are profoundly different–and runs to the points in the paragraph above.</p>

<p>Do you want a college or do you want something altogether different? Despite what Harvard will tell you in its literature it is not a college in any real sense. It is the undergraduate department of the Faculty of Arts & Sciences–almost full stop. Williams is insular which is both wonderful and limiting–again despite what they will tell you.</p>

<p>The quality of the education at either is spectacular–the students at Williams will be more well rounded and perhaps a bit more jock based–where as at Harvard, oblong kids are the rule by far–some are very very oblong indeed. Which appeals to you? </p>

<p>At Harvard you will be left alone–and this is both very good and very bad. At Williams, there is a much greater sense of community --and that is intentional, and the College works hard to maintain that.</p>

<p>I have no idea if I addressed the OP’s concerns but this is a first pass at it. </p>

<p>BTW-- transferring to Harvard is a near impossibility–and trying to do so from Williams will be viewed as askance as the Committee will believe (rightly so) that you are getting a premier education already. </p>

<p>Also Williams has a great program to study at Oxford for one’s junior year if you want an university experience and Harvard has a guest student program (although it comes without rooming) for a year if there is something one needs to do which would require Harvard resources to pursue–say work in a particular lab or access to Houghton Library (rare books).</p>

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<p>Thank you so much. i know all my questions are very silly and i keep telling myself this but i just cannot dispel the doubt initially so i come here. </p>

<p>i think why i start to second-guess my choice is because people around me keep asking me why i choose williams over other schools and give me a look that suggest i made a wrong choice. Now i’m so convinced that williams is the right place to be since i want be more well-rounded and want a liberal arts education in its fullest sense. that’s why i choose williams over oxford and lse.(i’m an international student)</p>

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<p>Harvard is highly overrated in my opinion. It isn’t decisively the best in any program. It is just old and hard to get into. That kinda sounds gross. (I had to)</p>

<p>Seriously though, it’s amazing, the oldest place in the country and the purest of pedigrees. But might not be the best for you.</p>

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<p>Harvard is Harvard. When you say Harvard people do stop for a few seconds.</p>

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<p>It can be dangerous to start making pro and con lists for a decision that you might never be able to make. Since Williams and Harvard both look for similar things in an applicant (intelligence, work ethic, character) you would probably be better off thinking about getting ready for college in general.</p>

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<p>^^ I think the OP is saying that he committed to attend Williams. i made the same mistake earlier in thinking he was putting the cart before the horse with his get into Williams then Harvard strategy.</p>

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<p>No, the OP is only a prospective student at Williams. I have no idea what he means by “[choosing] williams over oxford and lse” when he hasn’t applied to any of them yet.</p>

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<p>Aside from receiving the usual jaw drop and “wow” from the person or group of persons that you are telling “I went to Harvard,” I see no real benefits of transfering. You will fall in love with Williams once you are there. Transfering is hard to do. If you go into a freshman year at Williams with the intention of transfering from the get-go you will be side tracked and constantly distracted by the fact that you are only on that campus for a year ( which may not be the case with Harvard’s barely 2% transfer acceptance rate). You will lack school spirit and connection to Williams and it may be a waste of a year at college and tuition money.</p>

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<p>aksoccerboy</p>

<p>“i think why i start to second-guess my choice is because people around me keep asking me why i choose williams over other schools and give me a look that suggest i made a wrong choice. Now i’m so convinced that williams is the right place to be since i want be more well-rounded and want a liberal arts education in its fullest sense. that’s why i choose williams over oxford and lse.(i’m an international student)” </p>

<p>I think he is meaning to say chose instead of choose. Otherwise, this whole thread is kind of silly.</p>

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<p>As a Williams student, I enjoy reading this thread. I would agree with everything that has been said here. I think the matter of school reputation has been addressed accurately. Harvard has wider name recognition, of course, but frankly the Williams brand carries a comparable weight among most graduate schools and most employers, i.e. the places where reputation matters. Naturally there are some exceptions… and it’s difficult to measure precisely such subjective things. But I imagine that the additional recognition of the Harvard name by the average person can be either boon or bane depending on the context. </p>

<p>Besides my academic goals, one reason I picked Williams over Harvard in the application process was that I felt that people outside the circles of prestige would be more likely to judge me directly by my character and hard work than by an ambiguous label they don’t fully understand. But then again that’s just my personal taste in my particular social position. If the OP comes to Williamstown and discovers he isn’t satisfied with this, then he will be happy to know that he will have one of the best shots at a big-name MBA program.</p>

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<p>My son was down to Harvard and Williams in the last week of April 2007. He then went on an overnight to Williams, and something his friend said to him resonated: You will outgrow Williams in 2 years. That was probably true for him and the kind of research that he ended up doing at and through Harvard. However, the econ department at Williams is well known and would probably give you lots to keep you busy. The question is this: do you want a small, insular, nurturing school in the remote but beautiful Berkshires or a large, throbbing university in a small city?</p>

<p>And a big “wow” to JHS and etondad for their posts.</p>