<p>Like I said the ones who didn't attend HYP for undergrad, and built themselves up to there for grad school.</p>
<p>The somewhat difficult IIT entrance exam does not warrant a #1 spot in the "hardest college in the world". All you Indian fanboys should get accepted by MIT and CalTech first before you rant about how great your number one Indian university is. PKU, Tokyo, Tsinghua and Seoul National University are at least on par with IIT in terms of admission difficulty. </p>
<p>On average, everyone knows that the math/science classes taught in US/EU are way too easy for an average high school grad from Asia. To use the math exam as an example to show how IIT is better than MIT/CalTech is simply naive. BBC had an article about the Chinese entrance exam:</p>
<p>BBC</a> NEWS | UK | Education | Mathematicians set Chinese test</p>
<p>Read that and you know IIT isn't the only one with the "tough" admission standards.</p>
<p>I am a grad student at the Johns Hopkins medical campus.. I work/study around 14-15 hrs on weekdays and 7-8 hrs on weekends...How much harder can it get..?</p>
<p>University that hosts the "College of hard knocks".</p>
<p>Can be very painful also.</p>
<p>Difficulty of courses and rigor of curriculum etc does not equal prestige. Harvard and Cambridge are the most prestigious but one might validly say Chicago and Reed etc are more rigorous.</p>
<p>The IITs do not have the prestige of Harvard or Cambridge. In part, prestige seems to be equated with age of institution, alumni and their real world contributions, Nobels won, etc. Once you are in, the IITs are not as difficult as people make them out to be; I grew up near one of them, knew a lot of students, have cousins who went there, they worked hard but it was not too difficult.</p>
<p>The difficulty is in getting in. In India, every kid wants to go to IIT, so there is a huge prep industry that makes money of the thousands who don't have any real chances. Consider that every American kid wants to go to only 5 schools in the entire country, and the entry is test based. Nearly 3 million took the SATs, only 5000 or so went to the top 5 Ivies, calculate the odds. It is almost like that, I have simplified the matter of course.</p>
<p>The IITs are very very selective if selectivity is confined to number of high scorers in an exam on math, physics and chemistry. This makes it somewhat easy for those good at these subjects who can then ignore history and languages etc and cram for the tests. The tests themselves are vulnerable to practice and not too highly creative, so someone reasonably good at math, etc and is willing to devote time will have a good shot at getting in.</p>
<p>If you consider that the IITs then take the very top scorers in math and science, their real world contributions are not hugely impressive. Their alumni have not excelled in physics and math. Some of them have made impressive contributions to Silicon Valley but one can't argue backward from a survivorship bias. There are many more ordinary IIT grads (just as there are ordinary MIT grads) but I can tell you one thing: IIT grads are more boring than grads of American engineering schools because by the time they get into IIT poetry and history and music have been wiped out in them.</p>
<p>They are hugely one-dimensional. So, to return to the argument, in another sense, Ivy acceptances are more rigorous since the selection is multi dimensional.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You must have a different definition of brilliance than I. The smartest kids I know went to Cal Tech & MIT/Harvard. The IIT entrance test is highly G-loaded. I have no doubt it easily competes on an "IQ" level with Cal Tech.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Evidence for this? I highly doubt it, as it would imply high natural intelligence and in turn, high numbers of geniuses. Just where are these geniuses in India that graduate from IIT and what have they accomplished? Hmmm?</p>
<p>First, generally I would state that in terms of the study ethic of a school where students are found to work day and night, the following schools apply:
MIT or CalTech</p>
<p>The mere factoid of numerical applications does not represent the rigors of the academic world. </p>
<p>Secondly, any school that taxes any person to allocate all their time to studies is a difficult school.</p>
<p>The College of Cardinals in the Vatican.</p>
<p>Claiming that the Indian Institutes of Technology are the most prestigious (or even most selective!!) is just as closed-minded as saying that universities outside the US and UK aren’t even close to those inside the US and UK.</p>
<p>Yes, rankings are highly inaccurate, and I find the methodologies to be disagreeable.</p>
<p>In terms of fame and money alone, Harvard and Cambridge are unparalleled.
In terms of selectivity, Tokyo & Caltech are unmatched.</p>
<p>You cannot judge selectivity simply by admissions rates. Harvard and IIT’s selectivity are inflated due to the number of students applying simply to see if they might possibly get in (or just for fun). I’m not saying that they aren’t brutally competitive–I’m just saying that the numbers don’t say everything.</p>
<p>Tokyo and Caltech, for example, generally are applied to only those who actually think they might have a chance at getting in. If as many people applied to Caltech or Tokyo as took the IIT test, selectivity would be inflated as well.</p>
<p>Yes, IIT has prep schools that would be unimaginable to the average American high schooler–however, training for Tokyo is often even more rigorous.</p>
<p>If more kids here were from Australia, they would be raving about how prestigious the Australian National University is; but not many Australians are on here. Does that make it any less worthy? Not at all.</p>
<p>Same thing with ETH Zurich and Technische Universitat Munchen–so just because one university is glorified by many doesn’t make it any more prestigious.</p>
<p>And no, the FACT that many Japanese kids kill themselves after spending their entire lives trying to get into Tokyo (and many more years AFTER high school studying full-time for the entrance exams each year) but being rejected every year is NOT a myth. It’s a brutal reality, living in a culture where education is everything.</p>
<p>So before people claim that “IIT IS THE MOST SELECTIVE AND AMAZING,” they should probably take a look at schools outside of India–they might be surprised.</p>
<p>And just for the record, I think IIT is underrated in the States.</p>
<p>^ hahaha in the summer, I saw a special program about IIT admissions on BBC …how the lucky 20 group of kids --that are underprivileged & poor are going to apply there…</p>
<p>Indeed, in the same way, Cornell University’s “apparent selectivity” would be inflated as well, because more kids would apply, wanting to get into an Ivy League school but knowing that they can’t get into Harvard. However, taking the inverse results, Williams College’s rankings are likely deflated, as its name is far less recognized in the postsecondary education realm.</p>
<p>Is “hardness” different than prestige? If so, then this question is already ambiguous.</p>
<p>NYU Abu Dhabi is opening this year and it was VERY selective as space was limited. They consider themselves the “Honors World College” and NYU has prestige around the world.</p>
<p>As far as HARD ACADEMICS I would have to say that Reed wins this one HANDS DOWN. The students are all VERY motivated and they have to study intensively in order to succeed. Also, they have a senior capstone program that involves being tested on things you have learned throughout your career.</p>
<p>Interesting information on IIT. I hadn’t really thought much of it before I came across this thread, but I can understand why it would be so difficult since India has such a large population. On of my friends is in India right now doing an internship and he tells me that he has to work 6 out of 7 days for a pitiful wage. Pretty rough in India no doubt…</p>
<p>I also took a gander at that entrance exam. Its amazingly hard stuff, but its definitely not impossible to do assuming you went to some kind of magnet high school. Most of that material would be covered in AP classes or honors classes. Its hard, but certainly not impossible. </p>
<p>Of course I am assuming you had a reasonable amount of time and a good test environment to do this. I doubt I would be able to finish this exam with no less than 2-3 hours per section and an air conditioned room with a big desk =D. Though IMHO, if you can complete that test and do very well, you shouldn’t have to take any beginning engineering college classes in math, physics, and chemistry…</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say its the most prestigious university, but I would definitely say it would probably offer you a better education than many prestigious universities if all students are at that level.</p>
<p>People are sometimes too stubborn to realize or accept that their school isn’t the hardest, or the most prestigious. Not because their own university sucks, but because it’s actually really quite a difficult assessment to make. Not only that, but it is very difficult to evaluate which one actually is harder, since the acceptance procedures are, in fact, in many cases very different across nations. </p>
<p>In regards to the question on “hardness”:</p>
<p>For example, IIT has a 1 step admissions system. In Japan, there is a 2 tiered system. You write the national exam, and based on these results, you may sit specific university specific entrance exams. Hence you write 2 tests. The University of Tokyo has an acceptance rate of around 20% at the university specific exam phase, but if you were to include the fact that it is a 2 tiered program, and students actually were weeded out at the national exam level before they even walked into the exam hall for the university specific exam, the selectivity is actually crazier than appears. It’s like having to be in the top 15%, and then having to be in the top 20% of those already in the top 20% (stastically this actually means you are in the top 3% or so). These stats are just examples, cause I actually don’t know what the national level exam stats are, it’s nto on their websites, but it’s clear that only top students at the national exam level sit the university specific exam level for Todai. There are multiple stages of selection, not just anyone can write the exam. </p>
<p>IIT only has a 1 tiered system, and ANYONE can write the exam. This results in the 2% low acceptance rate, because any joe blow can write the exam, and basically any joe blow that hopes to escape poverty will. But is this an indication that it’s harder to get into IIT than it is for Todai? No, because the systems are so different it is hard to compare, but for some reason some IIT fanboys keep on pointing out the 2% as if it’s some conclusive number that sets their superiority. It isn’t. All it means is that India is still a very poor country, with a lot of people in it. Given the fact that there is so few schools to apply to since India can’t support an educational system that would make higher education more accessible to everyone, IIT is a popular school to apply to (being one of the few decent choices in India). But this doesn’t make IIT the best in the world, only the best in India. </p>
<p>Let me ask you, does IIT have the BEST research facilities in the world? Does IIT have the BEST professors in the world? Does IIT have the MOST cutting edge research done in the world? Does IIT have the BEST funding in the world? The answer is NO. It has the smartest students in India, that is it. Undoubtedly the STUDENTS are the smartest in India, but in what way does this mean the SCHOOL is the best in the world? There’s no direct connection if you asked me. It only tells me that the students are pretty smart, not that the school is recognized internationally, or that it provides the best facilities or anything like that.</p>
<p>In regards to the question of “prestige”:</p>
<p>In some ways, which university is the most prestigious really depends on which “world” you are functioning in. Do you mean the french speaking world? Then it would be Sciences Po for the high school entry level. Do you mean the english speaking world? Then that’s probably between Harvard or Oxford (if you’re from the commonwealth, Oxford, anyone else, probably Harvard). Do you mean the Japanese world? Then University of Tokyo (todai for short), Japanese students would easily give up a spot at Harvard or Oxford to go to todai. </p>
<p>To better illustrate my point: If you look at the Mines Paristech ranking of Universities by # of CEO alumni, Todai is second in the world after Harvard. How can Todai be second? Why not Yale, MIT, Oxford? Because in Japan, Todai has such an amazing grip on their society that the domination is almost absolute. Japan is still very old fashioned in that prestige of the school and seniority matters a lot, so the Todai name carries A LOT of weight. For example, Harvard is very good, but they don’t dominate US industry, where a CEO graduated from is pretty random most of the time, although statistically they do much better than everyone else. So in the US, if there are only (making up numbers here) 100 CEO’s in all of the US, maybe 25 of them will be from Harvard, and the next best guy has 13. In Japan, if there are only 50 CEO’s in all of Japan, 24 of them will be from Todai, with the next best guy only having 4 (remember, just making up numbers to illustrate the sort of dominance). So Todai dominates Japan in a much more crazy manner than Harvard dominates USA, or Oxford dominates the UK. How does this factor into prestige? Because, although internationally Todai loses to Harvard, in Japan specifically, Todai dominates local Japanese industry so substantially, Japanese people can’t help but see that Todai is the best in the world, since to them, the dominance is so obvious in Japan. Maybe IIT has a similar position in Indian business and that’s why IIT fanboys can’t help but see that IIT is better than MIT. In some ways, i think it’s a matter of what “world” you are speaking from. </p>
<p>So these questions are ridiculous if a context is not set. Unless you mean in the “in the eyes of most people,” then maybe Harvard at the moment, to make it short and sweet. It just happens to be the school that shows up in more hollywood films than any other, so probably would be more easily recognized generally.</p>
<p>Here’s my case for the University of Tokyo for “hardness” in admissions process:</p>
<p>I was speaking with a Japanese person and he told me that at the national center exam stage there are approximately 540,000 high school students who sat for it in 2009. It must be noted that these exams tend to be written by people who want to study at a public university in Japan. In Japan public universities are MUCH more prestigious than private ones, generally speaking that is (since Keio and Waseda are private but are prestigious in Japan, so there are exeptions). The University of Tokyo, Kyoto University, and Osaka University are at the top in Japanese society, in that order. All of them public universities. Only 20% of universities in Japan are national universities. Anyone who wants to study at a private university will not usually take this national exam, because the private universities usually only have a 1 stage admissions system (you skip right to the university stage), whereas for public university you write the center exam, and then if you qualify, they give you the go ahead for the university specific entrance exam (every university has their own cut-off). </p>
<p>The top 20-30,000 scorers are given the privilege of sitting for the exams of top schools like the University of Tokyo or Kyoto University, essentially schools that were once part of the Imperial University system (there are 7 of them) tend to attract top candidates. Essentially, to even get the opportunity to sit for the University of Tokyo’s entrance exam, you have to be in the top 5% (30,000/540,000=5.5%) of the national exam. Tokyo in particular stands at the top of Japanese society. In the US you have Stanford, Yale, Harvard, and in such a society you can legitimately argue that Stanford is as good as Harvard, and Harvard is as good as Yale etc… it all comes down to “fit” and where your heart is. This does not exist in Japan. Japan’s heirarchy is a pyramid with the University of Tokyo clearly and undisputedly at the top in terms of prestige. Kyoto comes close, but people will still think your an alien if you argue that its better. Prestigious, yes, but it’s as prestigious as a silver medal, someone else clearly has the gold, and anyone who sees your medal knows you are in second, good, but not as good as first (if you catch my drift). Why did I bring this up? Todai has a near 100% yield rate in Japan (undisputedly at the top in Japan, no school regularly steal students from them). Essentially what I’m saying is, the 3-4,000 students accepted in Todai every year is more likely than not the top 4000 of the 540,000 students who write the exam for public universities every year. Do the math yourself, this is clearly very competitive. </p>
<p>Furthermore, on top of being one of the most prestigious universities in Japan, as a public/national university, it’s also one of the more affordable schools. There’s really no reason not to choose Tokyo if you’re privileged enough to gain admissions.</p>
<p>ok it´s my turn now:
Indian Institute of Technology such as MIT may be pretty good…buuuut, have you ever heard about Ecole Polytechnique Paris and the French Grandes ecoles. Every year they take less than 500 Students out of 600 000 High school leavers. The selection process is nearly only based on mathematical skills.</p>
<p>Math:
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<p>Physik:
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<p>and some other subjects are tested as well: foreign language computer science etc.</p>
<p>OK the persons with the best test results are accepted to study for example Mechanical engineering, yes it is really needed for studying engineering NOT Maths , AND, they have these skills BEFORE entering Ecole Polytechnique</p>
<p>I really doubt that IIT and MIT can compete with that school</p>
<p>some famous school leavers: consider it´s a school with maybe 2000 students, not 30000!</p>
<p>Henri Becquerel
Nicolas Léonard Sadi Carnot
Augustin Louis Cauchy
Georges Charpy
Émile Clapeyron
Gustave Coriolis
Augustin Fresnel
Camille Jordan
Joseph-Louis Gay-Lussac
Paul Lévy
Claude-Louis Navier
Henri Poincaré
Siméon-Denis Poisson</p>
<p>Cooper Union has lowest acceptance rate in the USA, however I doubt many people outside of north east region of USA have even heard about it. As far as american colleges go, again it really depends what major too.</p>
<p>A applicant studying drama in Harvard could never be compared to someone studying Group Theory in any other college.</p>
<p>I never heard of IIT, however I agree with previous commenters that it’s not as prestigious as people make it to be, with people studying for a test which offers no creativity, nor the fact that so many people take it in a country of one billion people prove anything.</p>
<p>I looked at the alumnis of IIT and saw many went to get their MA and PhD from colleges like CalTech, Yale, Stanford, MIT, Harvard and Princeton.</p>
<p>I agree many colleges out there like the previously mentioned ones, Oxford, Cambridge, Tokyo, Seoul, Beijing, and add Tech. Univ of Berlin, Univ. of Delft (Holland) and swiss institute of science (did i get that name right or was it zurich?)</p>
<p>I’ve heard about the French Polytechnique school and the Zurich one to be the most prestigious in technologies&engineering in Europe. Among the professionals of the field these schools’ diplomas are definitely valued more than a diploma from Oxford, Cambridge, or probably even Harvard.</p>
<p>The most prestigious school is the Massachussets Institute of Technology</p>