What's the image of US colleges/universities in your country?

International Students
61

<p>
[quote]

I'm not sure how you were taught in high school. In Germany, you certainly get a well-rounded education in school (at least you should): I studied mathematics, the sciences on the one hand and philosophy, the languages, history, etc. on the other hand. I think I was well educated. Personally, I feel that now - after 13 years of school - I want to do what I like most, at last! That's why I like the idea to specialize. OK, it's a question of personal choice and circumstances, I agree.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wow, that's great! My education, I feel, has been pretty much crap. Our "history" was basically a forced spoonfeeding of dates and dry facts about local history. We know next to nothing about meaningful events, and I daresay that 99% of students can't tell you anything significant about Malaysian history because we just memorise the requisite details and forget them after the exam. Our maths and sciences are okay, but when it comes to the humanities and social sciences, we stink - we learn practically nothing. Our schools' approach is to just make you memorise facts that they think are important, so we learn nothing.</p>

<p>I actually got so fed up with the Malaysian education system that I decided to get out of it and do the British O and A Levels. It's much better - at least we have a wider range of choices. I suppose the main reason I'm enthused about the liberal arts is that I've had 12 years of education, and I feel like I've gotten almost nothing out of it. The only time I've been really happy with my education has been over the past two years, when I was able to take courses that actually interested me, and to plan my own educational path - and not have to put up with ridiculous rote memorisation.</p>

<p>
[quote]

I would agree that the top10 universities are about the same. But the top100? Nah, would you say that Harvard or Stanford are on par with the University of Arizona or Iowa State University? Seems a bit weird for me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>LOL, true - but the quality isn't as terrible as a gulf of 100 places might seem to make it. There's a reason more and more Fortune 500 CEOs are coming from state universities instead of Ivies...the gap is closing.</p>

<p>
[quote]
No, probably not, since the pre-med will take classes outside of his major. So what? I mean, this doesn't make him better in his subject at all, you will certainly agree. I think what you mean is that it might be better for him, since he'll be educated in more breadth. As I said, that's a matter of personal circumstances. Actually, I think that education is a long-life process, and cannot be taught in school or college, anyway.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yep, that's exactly what I was trying to say, and I agree totally. I think one philosopher (or some intellectual...can't recall the name) said that the purpose of schooling is to prepare you for your education. That's a reason I prefer the liberal arts - if you have a broad foundation, it makes learning almost <em>anything</em> quite easier. You can still learn if you had a very specialised foundation, but you need to play catch-up a bit more.</p>

62

<p>well, to those people who MATTER, such as the 500 fortune companies, top grad schools and people who actually attend Top-tier universities or colleges in the USA, YES, Williams, Swarthmore, Wellesley and Amherst are academically on-par with HYPSM. so there you go... please stop undermining these schools' reputations just because you don't know much about them... eventhough it's understandable since you're from Europe...</p>

63

<p>I'm sure they are academically on par with Harvard, as are a lot of universities -public, private, and foreign- that just don't have the same alumni network and multi-billion-dollar endowment as HYP. But reputation-wise they aren't. Justified or not, that's the way it is.</p>

64

<p>From what I hear, Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore have a very strong alumni network as well, and Williams is rich enough to be need-blind even for international applicants. Reputation-wise, nobody has heard of them outside the US - but how many outside the US have heard of Caltech? A lot of people I know haven't even heard of Princeton, to be honest.</p>

<p>I know this thread is about the reputations of universities in general, but IMO, that's not a very important factor. What really matters is the quality of the education, and the reputation among the people that truly matter.</p>

65

<p>That's fair. What "matters" depends on who you ask I suppose. I know that I could get a similar level of very high quality education from at least 150 different universities. But degrees from those 150 schools do not all lead to the same opportunities later on. Of course it also depends on individual qualities, but given my goals, it is important to me that my qualifications are "portable" in that they will be recognized for their quality wherever I go in the world.</p>

66

<p>There is a reason why they are called Little Ivies. 'Nuff said.</p>

<p>And please, stop propagating that misconception--U CAN SPECIALIZE IN LACs!</p>

<p>Liberal Arts = flowing tresses? hippie peace signs? smoking pot? studying utter junk?</p>

<p>Think again.</p>

67

<p>I was referring to the quality of undergrad education. Not reputation / what employers think / international fame......etc.etc.</p>

68

<p>If so, all the more reason for u to seriously consider LACs.</p>

<p>Look, i dont want this to become a flame-war. Kudos to Oxbridge--great institutes. But at the same time, stop being so narrow-minded. Just because u've never heard of williams, wesleyan, amherst, swarthmore, etc., doesnt mean they're beneath ur LOCAL UNIVERSITIES--heck, they're not even beneath oxbridge and hypms.</p>

<p>Some depts are better; others less so.</p>

<p>Comprende?</p>

<p>Be civil.</p>

<p>Trying not to let Victor Creed control me.</p>

69

<p>Lol, this is getting funny ;)
I accept that just because I haven't heard of williams, etc. doesn't mean they're not good. Fair enough. Maybe they're even better than some of our local institutions, I might even believe that. But I cannot believe that they're on par with Oxbridge and HYPMS - sorry :(
Ah, it makes no difference, in the end.</p>

70

<p>And for that, you hv my sympathies.</p>

71

<p>
[quote]
In Germany, you certainly get a well-rounded education in school <a href="at%20least%20you%20should">b</a>**

[/quote]

I am German too I feel that my education has been crap. Most teachers don't have a clue of their subject(s) and all those little "jokes" in the curriculum... Why do we have to study German history twice but omit world history completey (as long as it does not interfere with German outer politics)? Why are the math+science curriculums so "empty" that teachers generally spend more than have of their classroom time talking about something that is not in the curriculum (usually about their hobbies or personal experiences, sometimes some additional topics that come up again in a higher grade) and still cover all the topics they are supposed to?</p>

72

<p>aw5k:</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ivies%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ivies&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
Institutions identified as Little Ivies are usually old, small, exclusive, and academically competitive liberal arts colleges located in the northeastern United States. The colloquialism is meant to imply that Little Ivies share similarities with the universities of the Ivy League.

[/quote]
</p>

73

<p>barium, I am sorry for your education. However, I think johnleemk was in the first instance referring to the breadth of the education (i.e. whether or not you had to specialise). I am aware of the fact that education throughout the country varies significantly. I cannot claim to have enjoyed a perfect education (and I can completely relate to your experiences in math classes), but I think that I have learned to think critically and to differentiate - in my humble opinion, that's the most important thing I have learnt.</p>

<p>@johnleemk:
Well, saying that the Little ivies share "similarities" with HYP is pretty vague. Could mean anything and doesn't say anything about the quality. Let's be honest, HYPSM attract USA's best students, not the Little Ivies.</p>

74

<p>
[quote]
Let's be honest, HYPSM attract USA's best students, not the Little Ivies.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Um, not really. The little/big three - Williams, Amherst and Wesleyan - in particular have a very good reputation in America. (Especially Williams and Amherst - Wesleyan is more known for being a hotbed of liberal radicalism; at least, that's the stereotype.) I have read of people whose parents actually egged them on to apply to Williams and Amherst, and dismissed most other colleges (except HYP of course) as inferior.</p>

<p>In other words, you can't make such a huge generalisation. A lot of good students go to the top LACs, and many (if not all) of them have very distinguished alumni. (Kofi Annan, for example, attended Macalester - a second-tier LAC.)</p>

<p>Edit:
Check out <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Williams_College_people%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Williams_College_people&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Among the people who attended Williams are Lester Thurow, Herbert Stein, Stephen Sondheim, David Strathairn, Steve Case, Arthur Levitt, and James Garfield.</p>

75

<p>Quite right, aw5k.</p>

76

<p>Well... I think it's easier to get from Williams, Amherst Middlebury to HYP graduate school, as they are recognized by these graduate schools as strong academic institutions.. and so I would choose, WAM any day. </p>

<p>People who just don't understand it, and want to go to their local known university instead of a Top LAC have to do more research in what these colleges have to offer. </p>

<p>AND TO AW2k..
Just look at the accepted students at Harvard Law/Business school this year.. The admitted persons from WAM are relatively on par with those coming from HYP.. showing that HYP do recognize these colleges academically as equals, and those HYP adcoms are the experts when it comes to judging academic quality</p>

<p>The rate of people coming from local university abroad is nihil... If you are aiming for the best.. Grad school in US, Top LAC is a fantastic choice (if you get in).. and in the end Graduate degree matters the most.. and an education at a top LAC is a perfect start!</p>

77

<p>Half the biggest motion pictures in America for the last fifteen years have either been produced, directed or written by Wesleyan alum.</p>

78

<p>I support everything Hoeman said about top LACs. Thanks for speaking up for us students at top LACs!</p>

<p>Aw5k: YES, top LACs have a great reputation in the US for offering a high quality education on par with the big Ivies.
In fact, some of my frds here at Wellesley, picked Wellesley over some "weaker" Ivies, such as Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth and even UPenn simply because of a better education quality, the personal attention you get from real professors (not TAs like you would get from most Ivies or other big universities).</p>

<p>Besides, where else would you get this kind of attention if not from a top LAC? so, all I want to say is, if you want a real, personal education that's all about you and your exploration, an undergrad education from a top LAC is the real deal. ;)</p>

79

<p>For those of you who don't know about Liberal arts curriculum, here is a first hand account from the former worldwide VP of Procter & Gamble who chose LAC education over Oxbridge.


</p>

80

<p>SIMPLE FACTS:
1. Top LACs DO ATTRACT the best students, just like HYPSM do. It's just a matter of personal preference.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Oxbridge have so little funding that they do actually lose the top students to US colleges and universities</p></li>
<li><p>It's easier for a non-UK/ non EU citizen to get into Oxbridge and other UK universities simply because these British institutions charge overseas students ALOT more since they're desperate for the money (you can read about this anywhere, you can even go ask your own Guidance Counselor)</p></li>
<li><p>Most students and parents would choose a US college or uni over one from UK any time of the day</p></li>
<li><p>Don't know about the situation in Europe, but top LACs definitely have a growing reputation in Asia because there's quite alot of alumni placed in top posts in top firms such as JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs etc. (I personally know these people cos' my Dad works at General Motors and he knows alot about this stuff, and being a Harvard Business Grad himself, he says that he definitely treats grads from both top LACs and Ivies with the same respect, and so does anyone else in these top firms)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>THUS...</p>

<ol>
<li>people who MATTER will know about top LACs ;)</li>
</ol>