What's this so-called Tufts Syndrome?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Tufts University
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<p>The "Tufts Syndrome" theory comes from kids who have 1400 SATs, take hard classes, and do 1.5 extracurriculars for resume padding. Then, they see that Tufts takes kids with 1200s (most of whom, by the way, are internationals and have English as a second language, or are kids from Mississippi), and get all upset. </p>

<p>28% of accepted students learned another language before English
Median SAT scores: 670-760 verbal, 680-760 math
Median class rank: top 6%
49 states represented in the admitted class</p>

<p>Tufts looks across a lot of different factors for admission. If your extracurriculars stink, you're going to get a thin envelope. If you are from Massachusetts, have a 1400 SAT, and have decent grades, don't expect an acceptance. Really people - the entitlement "Tufts isn't a top 25 so I should be able to get in and they are jerks for rejecting me" is plain immature. </p>

<p>A LOT of parents here say that, if you want a match school, make sure that your kids SATs are in the top 75%, because once you are done with legacies, minorities, geographic people, internationals, and tuba players, you have to be there to be viable. That isn't Tufts Sydrome; it's the reality that they want to build a balanced class and that white kids from New England don't stand out based on grades and SATs alone. </p>

<p>That bottom group of SAT scorers is really from the internationals and people who don't have English as a first language. You CANNOT look at them and deem yourself more worthy of admission than they are. </p>

<p>Finally - said it a million times and I'll say it again - MEDIAN SATs OF ADMITTED STUDENTS AND ENROLLED STUDENTS ARE DIFFERENT. You people keep looking at "enrolled" which is UTTERLY USELESS for evaluating the chances your kid has of getting in. It tells you what type of people (in terms of SATs) are there, but it doesn't tell you the CHANCES of getting in.</p>

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<p>Edit: "Match school" is basically 50/50 - so if you don't happen to be in the 50% you would like to be, it's not because the admissions officers are evil. It's for inane reasons, such as the fact that you are in French club, have taken 10 years of French, love history and poli sci, and Tufts just has way too many prospective French/history/international relations majors that admissions cycle... so they take the person with identical stats who dropped foreign language in favour of extra physics.</p>

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<p>I think several people here need to lighten up just a bit. Seems to me that there are a few, if not several, Tufts students/alums who are just a wee bit sensitive about anything that paints a less than rosy picture of Tufts. They have plenty of reasons for which to be sensitive. Tufts has long been known as an Ivy-reject school and it continues to ring true. Just wait a few minutes and I guarantee you will hear several "I (or person I know) got into several Ivies but I chose Tufts" testimonials. Tufts kids are usually the dorks who studied 24/7 to get high grades and board scores but didn't have the whole package to get into the elite schools. They may think they are elite, but the real world has proven them wrong time and time again.</p>

<p>I find it funny that anyone who rationalizes their rejection because of a lack of interest is deemed by many of you on this thread as a whiner,complainer, bitter, etc...However, the same posters (who disingenously attempt to come across as supportive) constantly repeat the mantra that in order to get into Tufts, you need to demonstrate ardent interest. I.e. send a letter, call them, visit them, take a tour and register, etc..Well, which one is it? Is it important or not important to demonstrate interest in Tufts? You can't have it both ways, silly.</p>

<p>A final observation is that while Tufts Syndrome may no longer be so blatant (they clearly had to shift gears due to the widespread derision they suffered because of the eponymous Syndrome), I think that part of the whole "you're not getting in if you don't show interest" thing is part of a lame attempt to attract students who will of course love the school and will graduate and contribute to Tuft's (relativey speaking, of course) paltry endowment. Its clear that most students don't feel the need to contribute in a meaningful way after graduation. Try and rationalize it all you want, but there really isn't any better measure of satisfaction than endowment numbers. Tufts has a pathetic endowment for a school of its perceived prestige. This highlights the fact that Tufts grads in general are either not very successful in the real world and/or they weren't very fulfilled with their overall collegiate experience. Playing meaningless numbers games with the percentage of alums who contribute menial sums doesn't affect the bottom line, either. People give their real $$ to causes they consider truly worthy, and this is clearly demonstrated by the size of Tufts endowment. The folks who run Tufts know that it is critically exposed by this measure.</p>

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<p>ariesathena and kiddly, excellent posts. you guys both are clearly well-informed and articulated your points very well, and each had strong arguments. but both of you went a little bit overboard. kiddly, you made some overgeneralizations about tufts that their alumni dont really care. i'm sure there are a lot of jumbo alumni that care deeply about alma mater. but you're right to the extent that some people on this board are overly defensive about tufts (but what do you expect on a Tufts board?), and if some people were questioning the admissions policies of my school or my potential school, i may react the same way. </p>

<p>but the fact remains, that when you log onto this very website, tufts is not listed in the CC top universities with a link right on the main forum page; you need to find tufts under the T menu. Tufts is a great school, and depending on what degree you're pursuing, it can be a fantastic school, but it is not thought about as a peer to the very best universities in the country, althought its close, and may be in the future. as for the sydrome discussion the fact is, that the dean of tufts itself stated that the mean SAT for last years incoming class was 1368. you can expect a modest increase for this year but nothing like what some people on this board are indicating. </p>

<p>tufts is targeted as Patient 0 of the syndrome because it has an admit percentage (26%) that puts it in the same ballpark as DUKE (22-23%) and other incredibly selective universities. Duke, for example, has an SAT average that is over 100 points higher (1480) than tufts (1368). Can we all agree that overall duke has a more competitive admissions process? the reason for the disparity in SAT scores and talent of enrollees, but similarity in admit percentage, is that tufts has tried hard for many years to accept students that they feel would be likely to accept their invitation. not necessarily looking for interest (campus visits, faculty contact) but for likely matriculation, there's a difference. so for all of you jumbos, it's hard to reconcile those numbers together and say that there has not been an effort to try to make admit numbers smaller and eschew candidates that prolly wont go to tufts, and even if they did, they wouldnt make a big difference, despite their qualifications.</p>

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<p>Kiddly has had a vendetta against Tufts (as can be seen by our "fights" in the past which involved his petty vitriolic attacks and childish harassments on Tufts topics) and I would take what he says with a grain of salt. However, he does have a point that we Tufts students have great pride in our school and will paint only mostly the positives. However, is that a crime? Are tour guides who volunteer great portions of their time to be looked down upon as mindless drones? I definitely think not. Kiddly, you of all people know what it means to be a seller/northeastern troll. I have never attacked northeastern, let alone show such great interest in sacking your school as you have so mercilessly done to Tufts on college confidential. Why do you harbor your feelings and actively seek every Tufts topic in which to seek your teeth into? I ask that you respect this board as a place for rational discussion - not a proliferation of your malintentioned opinions. We give students a picture of what we consider valuable insights into why we love the school. Don't be that kid that likes to tear things down just to watch the ones who have worked so hard to put things up become upset.</p>

<p>On another note: Does duke really have that high of an SAT score average? That would make it higher than Princeton and Harvard.</p>

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<p>"Tufts kids are usually the dorks who studied 24/7 to get high grades and board scores but didn't have the whole package to get into the elite schools. They may think they are elite, but the real world has proven them wrong time and time again."</p>

<p>LOL. Kiddly is right, however. I'm an asian from CA, and I've perceived that this is the real reason why the Asian-American student population at the UC's are soooo high. The typical Asian "scholar" studies all throughout high school, gets good grades, and thinks he/she are on top of the world. Unfortunately, there is a lot to be considered in the Admissions process (in the case of Tufts, the fact that one shows "interest" should not be a deciding factor.) Recently the UC's have instituted a so-called "Comprehensive Review" process of Admissions, though it still seems to put GPA and Standardized Test Scores on a pedestal. The UC's, therefore, have been a school for rejects for the less well-rounded, but good test-taking, Asian American students just as Tuft has, is, and will always be a school of rejects for Ivy League "hopefuls."</p>

<p>This is not a conspiracy against the school, it is derived from years of justified suspicion. One defender of Tufts here mentioned a potentially more blatant violation with the case of Washington University's waitlisting program, so let's accept it as fact that WUSTL is the worst violater of the so-called "Tufts Syndrome." Now, who's the second-worst? Well, we invariably come back to Tufts. I don't see any other schools' boards out there having to defend themselves, making this "Syndrome" a matter of isolated cases, that has, if I'm not mistaken, hit the campuses of the most hateful college- WUSTL, and, oh yeah, the "prestigious" university in Boston, our very own, Tufts.</p>

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<p>I certainly don't have the time to write as detailed a response. But our S would have gladly attended Tufts. He applied to one IVY but knew from the onset that it was a huge REACH. We saw Tufts as a very nice match. 1430/ 760/740/700 /3.9 unweighted /top 5% of a class over 500/ All AP's and honors/4 year participation in 4 activities plus a job. Interview and campus visit. Not a dork at all. Tufts' loss that he was waitlisted.</p>

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<p>This has nothing to do with "entitlement" This has to do with the fact that admissions departments were not prepared for the onslaught of applications in one of the largest graduating senior class in recent American history. If you guys want to fantasize that they really did give kids a through analysis of who they are and what they are acheived, then you must be Tufts admits who really lack the abiity to critical of your new found home. I'm not bitter---I'm just tired of the marketing that these schools do and the con merchants who sit in the admissions departments. Again, if someone from Tufts can come in here and tell us that they put on more staff to read the 3 thousand additional applications they got, then perhaps I would buy the nonsense. Anyway, my kid is going to Cornell--not shabby.</p>

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<p><strong><em>, i got into two ivy leagues (that I DONT want to go to) and i got waitlisted at TUFTS?? That was my first choice school and I'm just *</em></strong>ed now because the whole admissions process is such a crapshoot.</p>

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<p>Sorry to hear about that asdf----but not so sorry--Where did you decide to go!!!!!!!!</p>

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<p>My condolences :(. You might get off the waitlist, a couple people I knew got off the '07 waitlist.</p>

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<p>A couple? That's so comforting.</p>

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<p>"Tufts kids are usually the dorks who studied 24/7 to get high grades and board scores but didn't have the whole package to get into the elite schools. They may think they are elite, but the real world has proven them wrong time and time again."</p>

<p>So would Tufts students have an advantage in medical school, which focus a lot on the MCAT and GPA?</p>

<p>Does anyone have statistics as to where Tufts graduates go to for graduate/medical/law/business school?</p>

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<p>Oh my... Kiddly is actually quite misinformed. Back around 1980, Tufts was essentially bankrupt. The endowment has grown substantially since then, which reflects the deep love that alumni feel for it. Most elite schools have had at least a century to develop their endowments; Tufts was pretty much starting from scratch 25 years ago. So that demonstrates how people don't like the school? Right on, dahlin. </p>

<p>Basic thought for everyone: almost every school, HY aside, places a premium on interest. They want students who will be happy at their school. That isn't some creepy conspiracy to reject smart kids (hum... my 1550, first try, top of class and 10 varsity letters would certainly make me the ideal "overqualified for Tufts person," but they let me in...), it's a basic philosophy: don't admit people who will hate the experience. Why would MIT admit a science-phobe? Why would Williams want to admit someone who said in an interview that he wants a large city school? While the conspiracy theories might be entertaining, they do not comport with reality.</p>

<p>Said it before, will say it again: Tufts looks at more than GPA and SATs. Everyone I know who went there did some sort of extracurricular activity for years on end - not just a few things junior and senior year to beef up the resumes. These are people who did karate for a decade, horseback riding since age 8, piano since middle school, or sports almost every season of high school. Or my friend who was ranked #1 in dancing in the country (turned down Williams for Tufts). </p>

<p>The problem with USNews is that (really feel like I should copy and paste post for y'all) they assume that a kid is a better candidate because of a higher GPA or SAT score. Example:
student 1: 1460 SAT, 3.9 GPA, Massachusetts person. Does nothing outside of school.
Student 2: 1440 SAT, 3.8 GPA, from underrepresented region, varsity athlete who will excel on college teams, student council president, published research or writings, blah blah blah</p>

<p>Now, we can all see that #2 is a shoo-in at almost every school in the country. A very numerically-based school, however (GPA/SAT are the only things that count), would prefer #1, but those schools are rare. USNews, however, thinks that #1 is the better candidate. Tufts, which places a heavy emphasis on well-rounded students, gets slammed in the rankings for this.</p>

<p>The other reason that Tufts gets nailed is because of the heavy numbers of international students and people who speak English as a second language (and, as a group, probably don't perform quite as well on the SAT because it's not in their native language).</p>

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<p>3 thousand additional applications? I thought there was only a 5% increase over last year, which would be about 800 additional applications, most of which were for ED (which presumably spreads out the work load). </p>

<p>Which school of Cornell? Hotel?</p>

<p>There were a TON of people waitlisted this year. </p>

<p>I'm not a silly 18-year-old admit who is incapable of being critical of Tufts; I'm an alum who (to partially answer Gatsby's question) is at a top law school and at the top of my class there. Not lacking for critical thinking skills.</p>

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<p>So how many people comprise the "ton" that were waitlisted, and what are the chances of acceptance from the wait list? (This question is of interest to those who simply want to go to Tufts and not be part of this absurd "Tufts Syndrome" argument!)</p>

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<p>thegreatgatsby,
you inquired about graduate school admissions for tufts. the wall street journal recently ranked schools based on their graduating class' admissions to top law/medical/business schools. tufts ranked no. 45. keep in mind that unlike us news rankings these rankings include small liberal arts schools as well as major universities. <a href="http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.wsjclassroomedition.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>"Or my friend who was ranked #1 in dancing in the country (turned down Williams for Tufts). "</p>

<p>LOL. Who/what ranks people in the USA for dancing? Surely his/her dancing skills rubbed off on the entire Tufts community and lo, Williams has never been the same ever since. Did Tufts also steal Mississippi's smartest idiot away from Vanderbilt and the North Dakota's least dangerous convicted murderer away from Middlebury? Inquiring minds want to know!</p>

<p>If you can show me some real evidence for how Tufts has increased its absolute endowment in any way, shape, or form relative to other schools over the last 25 years as you claim, I shall never bring up this subject again. Can you do that, or are you just paying lip service?</p>

<p>Furthermore, schools that have the arrogance to determine whether or not an applicant is interested based on visits, letters, fawning, etc.. where there are issues of time, money, and dignity involved are just setting themselves up for deserved criticism.</p>

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<p>Im not completely positive, but I do know I'm not going to go to cornell or brown because I don't want that kind of pressure. I'll either go to Boston College or William and Mary</p>

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<p>Kiddly,</p>

<p>I am NOT just paying lip service to Tufts. A few things:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>My point about my friend was to demonstrate the sheer talent of the people who go to Tufts. She won one of the (if not the most) prestigous national dance competitions. So you tell me, smart aleck, who does those dance rankings. It is called an anecdote. Logical, rational people understand that I don't need to prove that <em>everyone</em> at Tufts is unlike what you say; as you brought up the issue of us all being nerds, a few well-placed examples (it's pretty obvious that I do not know everyone at the school for the past 10 years... keeping to my close group of friends) of said close group of friends serves to undermine your arguments. </p></li>
<li><p>A fair number of Tufts students apply from the New England region. A large number of them don't apply for financial aid... hello, if you can drop $160k on an education, you can figure out how to visit. There's also things called websites, college counselors, teachers, and students from one's high school who go there. "My guidance counselor suggested it as a school that has a ton of study abroad and is great for pre-med" - right there, legitimate interest. Not that hard. No arrogance in not taking a student who can't even pass that (very low) bar.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>There are also these things called alumni interviews, which can be a pretty good gauge of whether or not the applicant is serious. As a woman who has driven 100 miles EACH WAY (in a snowstorm, no less) to meet a prospective student, at her door, to get an interview done, don't talk to me about "time and money" issues of said prospective students. Clear?</p>

<ol>
<li> A couple of things re: Tufts endownment. We could play the stupid game of "prove to me that Tufts had anything back in 1980." I could dig up the proof of the figures for their endowment when I started (late 90s), which was about $400 million. It broke $600 million a few years back after a capital campaign. We could argue about how to properly extrapolate backwards.</li>
</ol>

<p>Ultimately, however, you are the one who brought up the endowment issue. Figure out <em>yourself</em> how the endowment changed throughout the years - it's good practice for that "real world" thing you were talking about earlier. Don't bring up an issue about which you are ignorant. When you start fighting, be sure that the facts are on your side, if only for your own sanity. </p>

<p>My information is from a few very reliable sources (people at least a generation older than you), and, quite frankly, I have better things to do with the last couple weeks of a law school semester than try to find archieved US News issues from 25 years ago to please some kid who, in his ignorance, wants to pick a fight. You and I both know that your challenge is ridiculous. How on earth, over the internet, am I supposed to get high-level administrators to explain the history of the Tufts endowment to you? </p>

<ol>
<li> Life advice: Never say anything on the internet that you wouldn't say in real life.<br></li>
</ol>

<p>Watch out for age 22 when the real world hits, because the attitude you take with us here is probably going to spill over into other interactions. It is very telling how people treat others when they are not trying to impress anyone, and how they treat people whom they consider to be inferiour to you. Most employers will judge a job applicant, in part, by how he treats the secretary.</p>

<p>I'll also repeat what I said about having information at your disposal to back up your claims when you start picking a fight. The real world isn't the internet, where the only standard of proof is a website. </p>

<p>Finally, it's quite clear that you have an axe to grind, and you don't even have the sense to do it in the presence of a receptive audience. You aren't going to convert anyone, and the egg is on your face when proven wrong. Luckily, this is the internet, but your lack of humility, knowledge, and tact can have devestating consequences on your life. I'm not saying this as a snotty wanna-be adult, just as someone who has been around the block a few more times and seen the trouble that people get themselves into.</p>