<p>Bobbobob:</p>
<p>The heart begins to beat at 5 weeks. <a href="http://www.pregnancy.org/pregnancy/fetaldevelopment1.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.pregnancy.org/pregnancy/fetaldevelopment1.php</a></p>
<p>"you cant prove this, and nobody can."</p>
<p>Actually science can... but you are obviously not looking for the truth.</p>
<p>People here obviously aren't thinking clearly about this issue. Disregard emotional issues, moral issues, etc. and reason it out. :)</p>
<p>When "reasoned out," I come to this conclusion:</p>
<p>Keep your laws off my body.</p>
<p>leah: Agreed. However, disregarding morality discards reason.</p>
<p>soulds like defeat to me from yall liberal folk</p>
<p>It's interesting--I actually would think true conservatives (I suppose this would be excepting of the "religious right") would support gay marriage and abortion, because they're all about individual freedoms and minimal government involvement.</p>
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soulds like defeat to me from yall liberal folk
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<p>What GALAXY did you come from? I don't think I, or anybody for that matter, was arguing against you. Your posts are so idiotic I can't read them without laughing.</p>
<p>Vinny: Prove it or shut the **** up.</p>
<p>leah: I am a conservative. I support legalized abortion and legalized gay marriage without government sanction. Straight marriage should also not be governmentally sanctioned. However, I would rather both be sanctioned than just one.</p>
<p>soulds like defeat to me from yall liberal folk</p>
<p>Its funny how nobody touched my beginning of humanity post.</p>
<p>any reason for that?</p>
<p>neverborn--I can respect that. I'm definitely a bleeding-heart liberal myself, but it's nice to hear a conservative that doesn't use the Bible as an argument and actually understands the true basis of conservatism (personal freedoms)..</p>
<p>Does anyone agree that libertarianism and anarchism are really forms of extreme conservatism, when you think about it?</p>
<p>How about we get rid of marriage even for heteros? It's an institution that is at odds with man's nature. Just ask Bill Clinton or Calvin Murphy.</p>
<p>conservatism has been twisted beyond repair by the neocons and fundamentalists.</p>
<p>whatever happened to preserving the status quo...</p>
<p>Kevin Phillips everybody. One of the coolest conservatives you will ever meet.</p>
<p>"Ebony, I understand most of what you said except for this: "Against death penalty because causes more loss of life, especially of innocent lives..." What "innocent" lives are you referring to?"</p>
<p>I was referring to the fact that, [f]or every 7 executions486 since 19761 other prisoner on death row has been found innocent. Source is US News article (1998, admittedly slightly outdated but gets the point across. I found a site on the net that lists the reasons for acquittal of various inmates on death row and some of them are ridiciulous simply b/c the grounds upon which they were convicted were ridiculous, i.e. improper jury instruction, prosecutions suppression of exculpatory evidence, etc.)</p>
<p>"When pro-choice people refer to all the unsafe back-alley abortions that would result from abortion being illegal, they are conceeding the fight to keep the pregnancies from happening in the first place. It's sort of like saying that too many bank robbers get hurt driving away from bank robberies really fast, so the answer is to provide them with crash helmets, instead of making it clear that the consequences for robbing a bank are bad, so don't do it (do oral instead)."</p>
<p>Right. Those pregnancies are going to happen regardless. The government cannot dictate individual action (example: Prohibition), and as stated over and over again, this is a pretty instinctual/deep-set human behavior/desire/whatever you want to call it. There is absolutely no way you can mandate that all unplanned pregnancies stop. </p>
<p>The bank robbing example is inapplicable b/c keeping abortions legal improves the situation by moving women from the dark back alleys into safe, sanitized physicians clinics where government regulations can apply (which distinguishes the situation from making robbery legal; legalizing robbery does not improve the circumstances of crime or its regulation). Does giving robbers bike helmets help us catch them and "bring them to justice," so to speak? Does it help us regulate robbers? No. You can argue that maybe they'll die/get hurt so we can't prosecute them but then they're dead and they "got what was coming to them," so to speak or that this (not giving them helmets) even makes it easier to identify/catch the robber b/c he's dead/incapacitated.</p>
<p>You criticize pro-lifers for being hypocritical and supporting the death penalty.</p>
<p>So I have a better question for you--why aren't pro-choicers pro choice?</p>
<p>They don't support my choice to keep and bear arms, they don't support my choice to not support a bad public school system and send my child elsewhere, they dont support my choice to save for my own retirement, they dont support my choice to hire and fire who I please, this list could go on and on.</p>
<p>Why is it only ok to have a paternalistic government along the lines of democratic values? If you truly are a liberal and a lover of freedom, you should support all the other kinds of choice as well.</p>
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They don't support my choice to keep and bear arms, they don't support my choice to not support a bad public school system and send my child elsewhere, they dont support my choice to save for my own retirement, they dont support my choice to hire and fire who I please, this list could go on and on.
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<p>I do support those choices. I believe in minimal government intrusion into our private lives and choices. I'm not sure you can generalize all pro-choicers into that category.</p>
<p>Yes wasn't that my point?</p>