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<p>You don’t really believe this do you? Even a Kennedy wouldn’t get into Harvard if their undergraduate transcript was straight C’s and D’s.</p>
<p>Pea,</p>
<p>You are putting all the state schools in the same basket from your single experience. There are plenty of state schools that have great career centers and support systems, particularly large ones with great alumnae and connections. Big 10 schools have larger networks to build off of.</p>
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<p>Source?</p>
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<p>I’m not talking grad school. I am talking about undergrad. And yeah, there are plenty of students in Ivy leagues who slack off once they get there. They figure that they have done so much hard work that they don’t need to put anymore effort into it. Of course, that is not true in all cases.</p>
<p>Just look at the Republican party of the last presidency. Full of Ivy-league slackers.</p>
<p><<i have=“” a=“” good=“” state=“” flagship=“” in=“” uiuc,=“” but=“” my=“” kids=“” don’t=“” want=“” to=“” go=“” college=“” with=“” 100+=“” other=“” from=“” their=“” high=“” school,=“”>></i></p><i have=“” a=“” good=“” state=“” flagship=“” in=“” uiuc,=“” but=“” my=“” kids=“” don’t=“” want=“” to=“” go=“” college=“” with=“” 100+=“” other=“” from=“” their=“” high=“” school,=“”>
<p>I think this was one of the main reasons my older son had NO interest in UT or TX A&M. He has had a great 2 years in HS, but doesn’t need to be “tethered” to these kids forever. As far as he knows…there is only 1 other boy from his HS going to Penn State…but not someone he is friends with/likes.</p>
<p>Counting since Kdg - my sons have gone to 5 different schools, in 4 different cities, in 3 different countries, on 3 different continents. The longest they were in any school was 4 years. New people and places don’t scare them. They actually look forward to the opportunities that new places have to offer.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl - my son was accepted (engineering) to UIUC, but he knew it really wasn’t the right place for him. Same with Purdue. Both great schools - but just not good fits.</p>
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<p>I’m not trying to duck the question, honest. I would have to pull up stats from individual schools to back this up. Schools like Pomona, Carleton, Amherst, Williams have an impressive percentage of graduates going on to PhD programs. For med school and law school I’m not sure there is much of a difference between state schools and privates.</p>
<p>George Bush was 2 generations ago. It was easier to get into an Ivy when there were 1/10 the applications there are today, and the “old boys’ club” was as important as your HS grades.</p>
<p>Things are much much different today.</p>
<p><<on the=“” other=“” hand,=“” i=“” don’t=“” think=“” there’s=“” any=“” such=“” thing=“” as=“” a=“” “gentleman’s=”" c"=“” at=“” public=“” u.=“” students=“” who=“” do=“” work=“” will=“” flunk=“” out=“” no=“” matter=“” their=“” daddies=“” are.=“”>></on></p>
<p>You must be kidding! :)</p>
<p>^^
I doubt that is even true. Private universities may have larger percentages of people who attend grad school, but due to sheer numbers, they cannot possibly be sending more students to grad school than these massive state schools. My school alone does graduates over 10,000 students a year and a thousands go onto to some sort of grad/advance degree program. </p>
<p>P.S. Both of my parents went to Amherst. Neither went to grad school, but one is an actuary and the other is accountant. Got their specialities in elsewhere.</p>
<p>@ PrincessBride – I misread your post. I thought you were saying students got in with C’s and D’s. After I reread it I realize you meant that once they were there they got C’s and D’s.</p>
<p>It’s true, once you are there you get to stay. It can get silly but what is really silly is paying that kind of money for what could be a stellar education and then not availing yourself of it.</p>
<p>Like I said, I was lucky enough to get to attend a small private college. I worked my tail off but some of my classmates were slackers. I couldn’t understand why they were allowing their parents to pay that kind of tuition and then not study. I thought they needed to grow up.</p>
<p>I meant percentages.</p>
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<p>The good ole’ boys club still exist. As a black woman, I am very aware of existance and the importance it still has on the college process. I went to school with the good ole’ girl clubs. Nothing has changed. Rich people will still send their kids to Ivy league schools. Ivy league schools admit those with extremely high ACT/SAT scores, and studies have shown that those with higher incomes are far more likely to get higher scores, thus making it far easier to get into the Ivy league. Not that they had to work…it isn’t about what you do but who you know…</p>
<p>Sure there are students that work hard in those Ivy league schools. But, all in all, the game is so different in comparison to some state schools in which students aren’t coddled or given that strong support that Pea talks about. You got to work real hard to get into the best programs to beat everyone else out. State students have to be alot more aggressive than their Ivy league counterparts, and we do not get enough respect for that.</p>
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<p>My apologies. What I meant to say is that the top students who do get into private universities oftentimes stop their hardwork and party like there is no tomorrow. </p>
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<p>At state school, they will kick your butt to the curb if you do poorly. You get on more quarter, and after that you’re gone. I’ve seen students get their full-rides taken away and were forced to even pay the university some money after getting kicked out. State university is cold. I don’t get that from the Ivy leagues. There is alot more cushion at Ivies. </p>
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<p>Unfortunately, slacking off in Harvard is nowhere near as bad as slacking off at a Big Ten, unless you are going into debt to stay at Harvard.</p>
<p><<at state=“” school,=“” they=“” will=“” kick=“” your=“” butt=“” to=“” the=“” curb=“” if=“” you=“” do=“” poorly.=“” get=“” on=“” more=“” quarter,=“” and=“” after=“” that=“” you’re=“” gone.=“” i’ve=“” seen=“” students=“” their=“” full-rides=“” taken=“” away=“” were=“” forced=“” even=“” pay=“” university=“” some=“” money=“” getting=“” kicked=“” out.=“” is=“” cold.=“” i=“” don’t=“” from=“” ivy=“” leagues.=“” there=“” alot=“” cushion=“” at=“” ivies.=“”>></at></p>
<p>I’ve seen this scenario at both privates and publics. Unfortunately - at both types of schools - who your parents/grandparents/uncles are and/or how much money your family has DOES make a difference.</p>
<p>Sad, but true.</p>
<p>One of the things that has yet to be addressed when you talk about the type of student at a public v. top tier private is the fact that MANY kids apply to prestigious state universities and hold them on the same level as the privates on their list. (YES!!! THERE ARE PRESTIGIOUS STATE U’s.) Several of us have posted and attested to this on this thread (anothercrazymom, momof3, etc.) My daughter went to a very prestigious and rigorous prep school where she received a 4.0 UW while taking 12 APs and got 5s on all of her exams. She had a 2250 on her SAT and a 790/770 on her SAT IIs. Furthermore, she had impressive ECs out the ying yang. She put UVA and UNC (her two publics) in the same group as other schools on her list like Vanderbilt, Northwestern, WUST, etc. Did she view them the same as the ivys on her list – maybe not, but for her, it was all about fit. Again, like anothercrazymom’s son, she could have chosen the higher ranked schools BUT CHOSE NOT TO! Believe it or not, she’s not an anomaly. There are several kids she’s already met who will be attending UVA with her next year that turned down schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, Hopkins, and yes, UPenn, Cornell, Brown & Dartmouth. It’s not as uncommon as some on this thread think. Our D was WL at Cornell, Dartmouth, Penn, Brown, and Princeton; she said she’d give up UVA for only one: Princeton. We truly think she’ll have every opportunity at this state U as she would at any of the other privates. As for stat comparison…take a look at the average GPA for Berkeley, UNC, UVA, and probably UMICH (not sure). Go a step further and look at the OOS stats for these applicants (1/3 of student body @ UVA) – it’s extremely competitive for them to get in. There were numerous kids with 4.0UW and SAT’s of over 2300 that were waitlisted or rejected this past spring. There’s no question that this segment of the student body, as well as the majority of the IS students, are ivy contenders. Finally, as far as size and feel…not all publics have 30K+ students. UVA has 13,500. If you walk on campus in the springtime, step back, look at the students, grounds, etc. it FEELS like many privates. (Vanderbilt comes to mind.) </p>
<p>I think many people’s comments on this thread are based on perceptions they’ve formulated about publics as a whole – not all publics are alike.</p>
<p>Quote:
“Just look at the Republican party of the last presidency. Full of Ivy-league slackers.”</p>
<p>Cha-ching! Very funny, though sad at the same time.</p>
<p>Here in NY state the perception of SUNY’s as being “second class” to privates is dying. The notion was born out of the fact that when I was in HS (70’s) it was very easy to get into any of the state schools. Obviously if schools take anyone the perception will be that they aren’t very good. The same goes for any club, team, etc…the harder to get into the stronger the perception of excellence. As the SUNY’s selectivity has increased the perception has improved as well. SUNY Geneseo is more difficult to get into now than many privates.</p>
<p>csdad^^I’m a graduate of a SUNY and now live in an adjacent state. Nobody here has ever heard of my alma mater. The scattering of campuses was a decision made decades ago and I think NY suffers because of that. Regardless of the perceived “prestige” of any single one of the campuses they are not as well known as any state flagship anywhere else. I recently attended a reunion and the caliber of students seemed about the same as it was when I was a student. I did not encourage any of my kids to go to a SUNY. Of course, none of them went to their dads’ alma maters either.</p>
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<p>Equally true of students at state universities. Not at all unique to private schools.</p>
<p>PrincessBride- You sure seem to have a different impression of Ivy League students than has been my observation. The students I met- including my own kid- worked very hard at their academics, had lots of time-consuming activities/clubs/sports and many had jobs as well. I don’t think you need to slam the Ivy League as a whole in order to make your case for public colleges. That’s just stupid. And do you lump schools such as Rice, Vanderbilt, Williams et al in your same group of privileged brats who can coast and get Cs because their daddies gave a lot of money??? In the South (and Texas) you will see more family money heading for the state universities, by the way.</p>
<p>"the top students who do get into private universities oftentimes stop their hardwork and party like there is no tomorrow "</p>
<p>Strange statement, saying the least. They can party anywhere, even staying at home and going to local college. Somebody can stop a 20 years old from partying? What it has to do with being at private college? Partying kids are everywhere, the same goes for hard working ones who understand their priorities or the ones who are geniuses and do both equally successfully.</p>
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<p>Hah - like there aren’t wealthy, uber-connected people with kids at state u’s, especially in the SEC.</p>