What's your family issue?

Parents Forum Parent Cafe
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This is a generic thread for those of us who have been shunned by family members to vent a little, and share to know we’re not alone. What was it all about? Obviously one can share as much or as little as they want to…

For me, my first sin causing my dad to shun me was choosing to live with my mom for my senior year in high school after he got so controlling he wouldn’t let me do anything (no France trip with my French class, no bowling with friends, etc). My punishment was him not attending my graduation. He wouldn’t come to my college graduation either.

My second sin was letting my mom sit in the front row at my wedding with him two rows back. He would not sit with her and felt he should have front row since I lived with him longer. My punishment was him not attending my wedding and cutting me out of his life for years, almost decades (more than one, less than two). He missed seeing his grandkids when they were young. We stopped by, but he didn’t want to see them - or me. I always sent him birthday/Christmas cards and gifts. At first he sent them back to me, then I quit putting return addresses on them. After his death, my sister came across oodles of them that he had never opened (nor thrown away).

Later in his life, when my kids were middle and high school aged, he softened and let me back in. Even later than that he told me he regretted missing out on so much. I always felt sorry for him.

Since his death my sister has now completely shunned me too. My sin in this case was supporting the fact that dad left one of his houses to her son, my nephew, and his other to me. She got his coin collection. All were supposed to be of similar value. She was upset not to inherit a property. I told her she could have mine (no compensation to me) if she made sure her son got his, but that wasn’t good enough.

She’s Dad’s executrix and has taken close to 5 years to close out his estate (not finished yet), in doing so she has wasted all the money the estate had in bills (lawyers and otherwise). This caused her to “have” to sell the nephew’s place to “pay bills.” She asked if she could have mine if she paid me a dollar to make it official. No way. The deal was he got his and she could have mine. Now the courts have said she has to sell mine too - and she will get paid for those 5 years of being executrix - chances are nephew, my kids (who were to get 5K each), and I all get nothing while she lived rent free in “my” place for 5 years and gets cash to leave. She claims all the “good” coins were stolen so that’s worthless.

So now I’m cut out of her life totally. Even so I sent her a Christmas card with a $25 check in it that has yet to be cashed.

The apple didn’t fall far from the tree. I wonder what she says online about me… my cousin who lives near dad/sis tells me she’s talking trash about me to everyone back home (sigh). He also tells me they “see” her for who she really is, so not to worry… (double sigh).

Can you believe we were friends growing up? I miss that, but not enough to take her side with my nephew.

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I’m the black sheep in our family because I left “the church” (southern Church of Christ). I also dared to marry a strong Christian who was not in “the church.” I haven’t been shunned, but there’s definitely a chilly aspect to my relationship with my family. And after my dad’s congregation did not treat COVID seriously and continued to have potluck lunches through the worst of the pandemic, I will never step foot in their building again (I used to attend when I visited, out of respect for my parents).

It saddens me, but even as a kid I knew I could not stay in such a repressive atmosphere. I feel fortunate that I found a healthy church as an adult.

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I’m at different stage of life than you, but I can empathize.

In my experience, death of a prominent family member often causes people to inflate their resentments so much that they sabotage their relationships with whomever is left to hold their resentments.

If psychology hasn’t made up a name for this phenomenon, they should get on it, stat.

I’m sorry that you are going through this and know all too well how hard it is to find empathy, even from therapists, on these types of problems.

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@Creekland thanks so much for starting this. I’ll have more to say later. But was coming on her to post this article. It may not pertain to all of our situations but gives some good advice nonetheless.

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I’m really glad our nuclear family is close, both all three of our (adult) kids with us and the brothers among themselves. One good thing that has come of their seeing my side of the family and their WTH moments is they’re determined not to let that happen to them. The brothers call - and/or visit - each other relatively often. Puerto Rico boy obviously gets fewer visits since he’s further away, but they still call each other.

The kids all call us relatively frequently too, keeping us up to date on their lives and vice versa. I love it.

To me (and H) there’s really nothing our kids can do that would ever have us shunning them. They’re allowed to be them and they don’t have to be perfect.

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My mother had a sibling that was disowned by the parents. I remember her always saying “ There is nothing any of you could do to have us disowning you short of murdering one of the others”

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My sis, who used to be the baby of the family, married right outta high school, much to our parents’ chagrin.

The result of this marriage was a financial nightmare. When she “borrows” money from anyone, she views it as a gift with no intention of EVER paying anyone back. They have lost a LOT of friends from this.

She’s taken money from EVERYONE. She used my CC to purchase $3000 of inventory for her Makeup business when I stupidly used my CC to purchase a lipstick to help her out!

She took her own daughter’s saved tuition dollars and emptied the account because it’s “her money too!”

Our eldest daughter was the recipient of her cousin’s anguish over losing a year of college. Plus, our eldest knew that her aunt had used my CC without permission, so in our daughter’s nasty assertiveness, she “had it out” with her aunt. They don’t speak. (I believe that my brother-in-law had previously asked my daughter for money for some scheme. My daughter has done very well and has a great salary. She is a smart kid, and knows what a pyramid scam looks like.)

Eldest is planning a summer wedding and guess who is NOT invited? She has excluded her aunt/uncle, but invited the daughters (her cousins).

My husband and I have been approached by other family members. Our response has been, “We are only paying the bill; it’s their wedding.” Apparently, this is not good enough for some of the family but we REALLY are ONLY paying the bill, but it’s not our wedding. (Broken record)

They are great kids and we trust their judgment. They’ve gotten some flack from their other cousins too, but they are standing firm and want a nice, calm wedding without being approached for schemes for money/loans.

Will be waiting for the dirt to hit the fan. We will support our kids, no matter what.

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My SIL “borrowed” money from my grandparents for years. Her and my brother even faked a break in for the insurance money, but then allowed my grandparents to replace the “stolen” dvd player.
Their only child - the niece I haven’t seen in maybe 10 years ( haven’t seen SIL or my brother in 7)- got engaged and my SIL texted the news and suggested we get together for dinner. I turned to my H and asked, “ How delusional can you be?”

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My middle son is getting married this fall. My sister is still on his guest list. I doubt she’ll come, of course, but I’m glad to see he’s following my example of not being the shunning party.

It’s up to him whether he invites her or not - he’s choosing to. His cousin is invited too, of course.

I suppose we’re weird that we accept people as they are (without capitulating to them on other issues like loaning money or giving her my house even after she purposely denied her son his rightful inheritance), but I prefer that to keeping a “who’s shunned” list.

I also know from previous contact that my BP is still naturally low. Hers is through the roof. Maybe our reaction to life is part of it and maybe not, but I see no need to start a list and start putting names on it.

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@Creekland, I understand that you don’t really have issues about money versus family. but when one never had it to begin with, it makes a difference in life.

I think the hard part for me is that my sister was in Bankruptcy twice. Both times she was rescued under dubious circumstances.

The first time, she conned my elderly father into signing for a loan of $40K using his meager house as collateral. I was in college and my siblings all worked their blue collar jobs and we each tried to help to financially support our parents. She never paid him back. That loan continued to go up and my Mom had to babysit to pay off that loan.

With the second bankruptcy, her husband moved his elderly mother to his home, sold her car, belongings and home, then emptied her bank account. His siblings were furious. We called Elder Abuse, but there wasn’t a lot they could do. Mrs. E told my Mom (they had become very good friends throughout the years) that she had nothing to her name. She died soon after that and had been in reasonably good health until then.

My father did not have a high school education. He hustled odd jobs to put food on the table.

My sister (as a married adult) often took money from his wallet and he’d call us from the road, that he thought he had had some dollars in his wallet for gas. But when he got to the gas station, he discovered that he couldn’t pay. This was before ATM cards. So we had to get to him, fill up his gas can and get him home. My sister said that “he should have planned better because she didn’t take much of his money”. I was often the person to get to him because I was a student and had a bike. Not fun being on a bike on the freeway.

Yes, I am bitter, but I do invite her to my home, and try to make nice, for the family’s sake, but she still steals from any one of us. We have to put away things and hide our wallets and keep our SS cards at our daughter’s house. (locking file cabinets doesn’t work because she knows how to open them.)

That’s just sad that I can’t be comfortable in my own home and that someone always has to follow her in our home.

So if my daughter and her new husband choose not to invite her aunt and uncle to their wedding, it’s their choice.

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I fully agree that you and your kids can do as they choose, but don’t assume our siblings are all that different. Bankruptcy twice, check. Family being conned out of unrepaid money they couldn’t afford to loan her, multiple times, check. Theft… well someone has stolen the coins that were worth money and sis has been able to pay $1600 cash on a Sunday with just a half hour’s notice, so we all draw our own conclusions about who might have done it.

I am fortunate enough that sis has never been to my house at least, but by squandering all of dad’s estate she’s taken about 30K from me, a similar amount from her son, and 5K for each of my three kids, while she walks away with cash so I wouldn’t exactly put her in the saint category.

It all does bug me. I won’t say it doesn’t. I wish I could rewind time and tell dad I would be his Executrix when he asked me if I would, but I can’t do that.

In the end - each time I think about it - I remind myself that I’d rather be me than her and with it being just the two of us I had 50/50 odds, so I consider myself the winner (in life) and feel sorry for her. I’m not at all sorry enough to give her money (other than what I offered from dad’s estate to try to help her nephew) or let her take advantage of us otherwise, but a listening ear? Inclusion in family events - or at least invitations? Greetings for her birthday or Christmas wishes? I don’t feel the need to discontinue those. If she doesn’t wish to be part of it because she feels slighted, that’s her choice. I’m not losing sleep over it.

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My niece was in college when her dad, my brother, died of an overdose. She was angry with him for leaving her like that, and she took it out on my brothers and me. The icing on the cake was when we found out that he had never changed the beneficiary on his life insurance policy from his several-years ex fiancée. Niece blamed us for not getting it back from her (we did try talking to the ex fiancée, but it was legally hers & she had no interest in sharing). Niece invited us to her wedding but sent her friend to tell us she couldn’t believe we came. One brother’s D invited her to her wedding, but she didn’t come, even though her grandfather would be there - it was the day she & her H “always” have their Halloween party (even though the wedding was a midafternoon affair with reception at the church - just a bit more than an hour from her house). After our dad died, she completely broke off all communication. We had to track her down to notify her when she got an inheritance from another brother, but she simply signed the form & returned it, never even asking what happened to her uncle.

My brothers & I have never said anything bad about her, and we’ve all tried reaching out over the years. I’d say it’s her loss, but I don’t think she cares.

Oh, and D didn’t invite her to her wedding. She said, “Why would I invite someone who has made it clear she wants nothing to do with us?” Hard to argue.

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Maybe it’s because I am fascinated by the differences (and similarities) in humans in general, but each of our stories and reasons for our choices (ours and “theirs”) intrigues me. It’s probably why I stay on cc in general long past when my own kids have totally graduated from all schooling (even med school). Working for a couple of decades+ in my public school has also given me a ton of insight.

I’ve definitely learned to live and let live when things don’t affect me or others I care about, like my nephew since Sis was never a candidate for “Mother of the Year” either causing my dad, and mom, to leave him more than a grandson’s share.

It’s always interesting hearing the reasons why people choose what they do though, whether it’s College X vs College Y or how we interact - or don’t - with other family members.

I don’t need to convince anyone to choose what I would choose, nor do I feel compelled to try to make everyone content with my choices. I just find it interesting.

I’ll also admit to being glad I’m not the only one going through similar things. Sometimes it’s easy to think we are the only ones out there when we only see inside our bubble. We’re not. Humans are humans across our globe. Different personalities and perhaps various mental things affect many.

And with these threads, I’m glad my boys aren’t just brothers/sons. They’re also friends, even if we all live relatively far apart from each other. Not everyone is as fortunate. I’m thankful!

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My niece is fortunate to be very close with her mom’s family (my brother was divorced). She was close with my brother and with our family, and my brother was a great dad. She seems happily married, with kids now, and I recall that she was close with his family even before they got married. So she does have a lot of supportive family around her, which gives us a measure of comfort. For that reason, I figure that it is what it is. My brothers and I know that we did everything we could to help her after our brother died, and we tried to continue a relationship. She’s a therapist, so I assume she may have concluded that she is better off staying away from us. Her reality is her reality, so I will honor that.

I also find CC interesting on so many levels. I really enjoy the honesty people bring to discussions.

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Oh, I have stories! But suffice right now to quote Tolstoy:
All happy families are alike, but each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

And one more quote: Edith Ann, the totally amazing Lily Tomlin, from SNL:

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My story is years of issues, but in a nutshell: my brother married a conniving thief, who has done everything in her power to shut my family out of his life and he’s allowed it to happen.
There are honestly dozens of stories.
Taking money for years from my grandparents. My SIL would constantly go to them for money. Car payments, house payments, school payments etc. When my grandparents moved into an apartment she insisted to help - found out later they paid her $2000. Yet when my grandparents moved to Florida to live with my uncle, my brother and SIL didn’t go to visit once. They called for money of course. My pop called my mom and said to please tell my SIL to stop calling for money, because he was worried about finances. My uncle sits down with him and sees he had sent them a $10000 check so they’d visit! They are both deceased now.
My mother has depression. My SIL would bad mouth her to everyone. She has this way of always trying to “rally her troops” as my dad would say. I’m “weird” because I’m an introvert. My dad was a horrible father because he’s a recovering alcoholic. Every Christmas she’d say she didn’t have enough money to get my kids a Christmas gift.
And my brother has no backbone. He has always refused to stand up to her, believes everything she says. I caught her in a huge lie involving my grandfather, had proof, but nope.
He’s always been one to do whatever is easiest.
When I had cancer and was in treatment for a year he never came to see me - lives 30 minutes away.
But I would still text him on his birthday and Christmas. He’d do the same. I’d write him letters, then throw them out.
Christmas 2022 I texted him Christmas Eve. He didn’t text back. The next day the SIL texts me back - her dad is staying with them after surgery and my brother’s sorry he didn’t text back and ….blah, blah, blah. This was the final straw for me. I’m done. All he had to do was send a picture of a tree, a thumbs up - anything. So no, I’m not texting him next week on his birthday.
The ball is in his court 100%.
Haven’t seen him in 7 years.

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My sister and I were close as kids (she is 2 years older and I tagged along with her and her friends all the time). Then she got married to somebody I felt was very controlling. Between my dislike of him and her having dogs I was allergic to, we basically only had contact for holidays with my parents.

I was a kid who did nothing wrong, followed all the rules, did great in school, etc. Once I got married, I was not particularly close to my mother. My mother nagged me constantly about not calling her often enough, not being friendly with my sister, not having my family over, etc. My mother was also jealous of my in-laws (although we did not favor either side and split occasions evenly.) She would talk to my mother in law and stir her up against my husband and I. One Mother’s Day, I have no idea what she told my mother in law, but my mother in law refused to speak to my husband for months after.

I was basically the black sheep and my sister the angel in the family. My sister had great influence over my mother, often maligning my family (husband, me, and daughter). Making me out to be terrible because I didn’t attend events she held. She did things like made my mother stop having a birthday cake for my Easter birthday daughter at our family Easter celebrations, because somehow that was not being fair? After I told my mother who cares how a dead person looks in an open coffin, they are dead. She turned around and made my sister executor of their wills and put her name on a bank account with funeral funds.

So fast forward, my mother dies and my father is looking at going into an assisted living facility (he can’t take care of himself). My sister and her husband show their true colors, when they tell him not to move as that “that would be spending their inheritance”. My father tells how my daughter is the only grandchild to ever visit him at the AL (my sister has three kids with significant others and even their own children). He finally saw them for who they are. She is no longer the executor and I am the primary Health Care Proxy (believe me not a fun role). I haven’t seen my sister since he moved and I am completely happy about that. I really don’t know how often my father talks to her, I don’t ask and I don’t care.

The funny thing is that he has spent all his money paying for the assisted living facility. There will be no inheritance for either of us (but I am fine with that as it was his money and his choice on how to spend it).

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On my side we get along pretty well though I think everyone has been irritated with my middle brother’s wife at one time or other including her husband. (She was my best friend freshman year in college, took time off and ended up in my brother’s class.) I love her, but she can be oblivious, and domineering. We used to go to her house for Christmas a lot, but stopped because we couldn’t deal with their traditions. One year it turned out they were doing pre-Christmas elves where the kids were getting little presents and notes before Christmas, but she didn’t tell us, so her four kids were getting stuff and ours had nothing. We also hated the 12 days of Christmas routine, where you only got to open one present Christmas Day. The solution was easy though, we just started arriving after Christmas. She’s not been flexible on occasion about changing dates for some vacation property we all share and my other SIL has talked my ear off about how unfair it was. (That SIL has actually many of the same qualities as the first one.)

On my husband’s side the middle son’s wife for years seemed very controlling. They never came to visit and even came to NY a few times without letting us know which seemed weird. She’s mellowed out, their son is going to college in NYC and we’ve seen them several times in the last few years. She really is quite lovely. I don’t know what the issue was with her. My husband thinks she’s just really close to her California family and roots. She is rarely part of the family zoom calls, but that’s fine.

The most amazing thing to me is that my MIL’s family completely disowned her after she married because my FIL was Jewish. He waited seven years to marry her hoping they’d come around. Such a shame, she was a really wonderful person. Her parents died fairly young and never saw their one and only child again. I just can’t imagine.

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My sister, on her son’s birthday when everyone else was giving him a card and gift, told us all she didn’t have enough money to even get him a card. I couldn’t keep my mouth shut that day. I told her that down the block at the Dollar General cards are just $1. She’s always had, borrowed, or found money to get things for herself (credit cards were also money in her eyes - hence the bankruptcies), but she was always too poor to do practically anything for him that he wanted. She also has been the one who taught me not to give to sob stories online. Sure, some are likely legit, but not all. I suspect that’s where she’s gotten a lot of her money and I know she’s gotten (and abused) free housing and more throughout her decades of adult life. For herself she’ll buy diamond earrings. For her son she has nothing good to say and tries to mess him up at any moment she can, as a kid and as a thirty+ year old adult.

Even at the County Fair my mom gave me money for my son and hers when they were young. I asked her why she didn’t give his money to sis. She told me he’d never see it - just go, and I’d understand. Yep. She didn’t want to get him food, drinks, (because he’d have to use the bathroom) a ride bracelet (too expensive) or play games (he can’t win). I told her mom had given me money for the boys, so bought all of the above and let them have a fun day together. She saw some friends and went off to say hi. Later she returned with a wine cooler for herself. (sigh)

You have to wonder what makes some people tick.

I feel sorry for my parents, and any parents/kids/siblings of those with this personality. No one wants to endure it. I also think it’s a mental illness of some sort - personality disorder or something - because I can’t believe it’s an enjoyable life someone would purposely choose. Hence, I also feel sorry for them and am glad I didn’t draw the short straw with the 50/50 odds in my family. I’ll take my life over hers any day, but for me, I do draw the line at purposely shutting her out. We were good friends as kids. I like to remember those memories. I wish her problem were something that could be fixed, but I don’t think it is. Plenty of people have tried over the years, both in the family and outsiders trying to help.

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I don’t think there are any extreme issues in dh’s family (not picking on them compared to my own - I basically have no family - I’m an only who lost both parents at age 24). At least not like some that are being written about here.

I would say the primary issue for dh’s family is that they are simply not close. Dh is not close to his mom or sister. He wasn’t (IMO) close to his dad when he was living either. There are only calls made from my sil or mil to my dh if there is a need. Dh doesn’t call them either. I don’t think sil and mil are particularly close but they live closer together, and they do see each other fairly often. But, I don’t think sil enjoys mil. It’s out of obligation. My mother-in-law is very into appearances. So, as long as things look like a nice happy family in photos at holidays, etc, she’s fine with it.

I spent last year calling both my sil and mil once a week. They never called me. Not once. This year after the holidays, I decided I was tired of being the one to make all the effort. So, I quit calling. Neither one has called me. So, they must not miss chatting with me. I cannot force dh, mil, and sil to be close to each other or close to me. I finally came to the realization that it’s not worth my effort to try.

I have a group chat with mil and sil where we share our Wordle/Quordle scores each day. We do text a bit about other things going on, but not much. It is the perfect metaphor for our familial relationship. Pleasant but no substance. It’s clearly all they are capable of.

Mil is coming to visit for five days next week. Not looking forward to it. I have complained on here about her expectations of being catered to and her declining filter as she consumes far too much wine. Dh has decided we will not be going to see her and sil over the holidays this year. Like everything else, we are the ones putting in all the effort to make anything happen for holidays. I have no doubt the holiday conversation will come up. I don’t think sil will care, but I know mil will be unhappy we aren’t going because it has the potential to make her not look good to her friends. The issue becomes, what is our reason?? Because the truth is not very kind: we don’t want to because we don’t enjoy being around you. No idea what our ds will choose to do. We’ve told him we’d love to have him come here, but we understand if he wants to go see his grandmother and that precludes his coming to see us. I refuse to be a whiny manipulator about holidays. He’s in grad school, and I won’t be surprised if he chooses to take an international trip over the entire winter break.

In summation, I would say most of our family issues stem from pressure/expectation to maintain an appearance of closeness that doesn’t align with reality.

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