When does prestige actually matter?

@CU123:

“I think we agree on most of it, but it comes down to a couple of things MIT is recruited nationally where as most of the schools you list are recruited regionally.”

Wait, you work in both IB and engineering? Impressive.

BTW, because I don’t like nonsense, I’ll just say you’re wrong and point you to @blossom, who actually recruited and hired engineers for a living.

“The rigor at MIT is only matched by honors courses at those universities, so they would also have to be put into the equation.”

All of these publics have powerhouse grad STEM programs. You seriously don’t think that some of the top PhD programs in the world in these disciplines wouldn’t be able to offer enough challenge to a motivated undergrad?

“Finally the washout rate is much higher at public universities because they aren’t getting the same product to start with.”

And that affects a kid who can get in to MIT but goes to UIUC. . . how?

Look, if you want to get in to a top company in your field, you have to be good, and if you’re good, you’re not washing out.

I guess you missed the part about my college roommate…

and I have recruited and hired engineers so I don’t need to ask anyone else…

@CU123, fair point about IB. There’s a lot of snobbery there. But as @nhpm510 said, it’s the size of the fight in the dog. IB isn’t exactly the type of industry where they sing “Kumbaya”.

I’m in shock someone like this is giving impressionable kids advice. don’t you know over 90% of the kids that are “pre-med” change their major or can’t hack it? so your brilliant plan to “avoid debt” backfires incredibly as they’re stuck in an interior school and have an inferior credential the rest of their life because some lady told them to go to a crummy college “to avoid debt” when they were 17

People say that it doesn’t matter and to some extent that’s true, but if you graduate with a 3.8 from a public university you might have to wait a few years to be accepted to any med school (my DD roommate took 3 years), whereas if you graduate from Harvard with a 3.5 you will have multiple acceptances right out of college (not top schools but still acceptances). There are many lesser med schools that would like to have any Harvard grad as fair or unfair as that may seem.

However, the most desired majors (CS and some engineering majors) at some of these schools can be Ivy-like in selectivity (although they may not have been in the past), which may be substantially more selective than other majors or divisions at the same school.

But then some of the others like SJSU are not as selective as that even for CS, although CS may still be the most selective major there.

One of my son’s friends at Bama was just accepted into Harvard’s MD/PhD program. I don’t know her GPA, but I’m going to guess it was close to a 4.0. It is not the only one she was accepted into. She was accepted into 5. She is a very impressive young lady. Schools like Bama do offer plenty of opportunities for students to excel.

and

You are a high school student without any concept of the burden of debt. Students can’t take out loans on their own and without a cosigner or parents paying the bill, students are limited to whatever amt of $$ they have direct access to. ((We as parents are fully aware of the burden of debt and refuse to take it on. So, our kids are 100% limited by that position.)

Your grandfather is correct that a good education is always worth it. Where your repeated posts are off are when you insist that a good education is only possible at a tiny handful of colleges. Top students can excel at 100s of schools. Many students don’t have the luxury of spending whatever amt of $$ they want on their UG degree. The OP of this thread is correct and is giving those students solid advice. Students at those “inferior” schools can have excellent outcomes. It is the person behind the degree that makes the difference.

Since my kids have no financial option but to attend those “inferior” UG schools, they know they have to excel. My current college sr is visiting top grad programs where he was accepted right alongside elite school grads.

I am glad we have now added to IB and consulting in terms of acceptable career paths: US Supreme Court Justice. I was worried there wouldn’t be enough places for “elite” kids to earn a living.

I think prestige doesn’t matter. I am accepted ED to a low-tier college and I am fine without the prestige.

The original question was does prestige matter. Prestige is not necessarily about attending an ivy–it can have a broader definition depending on one’s path. But to say prestige doesn’t matter at all is naive and shows a lack of understanding about how the world works.

Can you follow a path and be successful without going to a prestigious university? Of course! But your options may be different than those who graduated from more prestigious universities.

For starters, look at the recruitment that happens at top feeder schools. Many students from prestigious universities are sitting on job offers and signing bonuses the summer before senior year–before many students have even attended one job fair senior year. This doesn’t mean that these late to the party seniors won’t get good job offers and lead successful lives. But it is not the same path as those who snagged rotational programs that groom recent grads to be leaders in their fields.

My D is a full-time MBA student at Stern. Once she was accepted at Stern in the spring and was offered her full scholarship, she was immediately recruited for summer internships-- for the summer between her first and second years! Before she had even taken one MBA class, she was flown all over to interview for summer 2018 internships at top companies. So she started school having two offers already in her pocket. If all goes well, the internship she accepted may offer her a full time position at the end of this summer, meaning that she was recruited for a full time position before she had even attended school, just on the basis of her acceptance at a top feeder school.

My husband says…when it is apparent that the student is going to be a standout in their choosen career post graduation, has some specific recognizable/measurable talent or potential.

The real question is about the impact of prestige. When is it vital? When is it merely helpful? When does it simply not matter at all? I was really thinking only about undergrad, ,as I think the value of prestige in graduate programs is far more clear. I graduated from an IVY and then attended a top 10 law school. My laws school class mates came from every conceivable type of college. Elite, lower tier state schools, small unknown LACs. As far as I could see, the IVY grads had no advantage once we were there. However, we all had tremendous opportunities simply from coming from that law school. We were recruited like crazy, while friends at lower tier schools scrambled for opportunities.

The point is that not that prestige is meaningless, but not every kid has the opportunity to study at an elite school. Some have the grades but will be shut out anyway because admissions are strange. Some get in by can’t afford the tuition. Some of these kids have been told their whole lives implicitly or explicitly that if they just work hard they can go to a top school. They need to know that their lives are not destroyed and that the things they want for themselves are still out there.

Finally to @aboveaverage, you wrote:

“zero chance you went to a top college, therefore you have no understanding of why “prestige” matters (hint: it’s not really about “prestige” it’s about the high-achieving inspiring atmosphere, top faculty, top departments, top peers, top network, top support, top resources, top financial aid). and what do you know about medical school admissions? apparently nothing.”

There is really no need to be nasty. You may think its alright to treat people this way because its an anonymous forum, but it isn’t. Your attitude will hurt you along the way regardless of what college you attend. Your claim that you should go deep into debt for an elite school in case you change your mind about med school actually proves the opposite. What happens if you change your mind and decide you want to be a teacher? What if you decide you want to try for a career in theater or the arts? Publishing? Journalism? Do you realize how crippling that kind of debt could turn out to be? Keeping your debt burden low actually preserves your options.

I want to add to my comments about Law School. Some of my friends from those “lower tier” law schools actually ended up doing far better then my own classmates. The fact that they were not recruited directly into those corporate firms forced them to be more creative and entrepreneurial. They ended up moving up fast in smaller firms or becoming successful in their own practices, while many of my classmates were still slaving away and burning out at those big firms.

With respect to law schools, https://www.lstreports.com/schools/ can give you an idea of employment outcomes out of various law schools.

Yes - my thesis advisor used to say better to be the big fish in a small sea … Going to a smaller - maybe less prestigeous - but still good school and graduating top of the class … has to be better - than going to some large university - we’re you are struggling to stay in the middle of the pack and classes are designed to be “weed out” rather than real learning - and where you are just a number to the profs. Believe me I know I did it at Rutgers. Our friend went to a small college - ROTC and graduated top of the class and then to Harvard Med school. In retrospect - a much better path.

I should also add that it can depend on the department/major … some mid level school may be excellent in the area you are interested. Others maybe be Prestigous overall but not so good in the area you are interested in. You have to take allthat into account as well.

Very strange to read some of the comments on here and other posts as well…based on most comments why would any kid ever want to go to HYPSM for undergraduate degree since it obviously has no benefits whatsoever? Complete waste of time and money. The only thing they offer obviously is prestige.

Depends on whether you have to shell out $280K or not and what your other options are, @moscott.

@PurpleTitan Not according to most posters. Ivy etal are simply prestige universities(for undergrad) and nothing more. In fact for the same price why choice the Ivy since there is no benefit? right? Anyone shelling out $280K at an Ivy means their family is very wealthy.

The simple truth is that prestige does matter. Some may argue about the degree to which it matters, and others may question whether it’s earned or not, but bottom line it matters. It doesn’t mean that students from “non-prestigious” schools can’t excel, it just means that graduates from prestigious universities may have easier time with access. Consider two tech graduates at a party, one from MIT and one from UCSD. Assuming no one knows anyone else, who do you think will get more questions about their college experience and what they are doing now?

Affordability is a different question.