When Early College Admissions Go Extreme

Parents Forum
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<p>Mafool, let me understand, how does a less wealthy kid not benefit in the same way as a more wealthy student in EA programs? Yes, the wealthy student can stop applying to colleges in Dec. if he wants, but the less wealthy student can also be accepted in EA and keep other apps live, and weigh all FA options in spring. Such a student has the EA admit in hand, like the richer student, and gets to compare all FA packages. The fact that a person who needs aid has to weigh all options is not unfair. It just is a a fact when it comes to financing an education. ED is the option where less wealthy applicants may have a disadvantage because they must weigh FA offers and can't afford to enter into a blind binding agreement. I hardly see EA as unfair to these kids. I guess if you think it is unfair that some can afford college and stop apps after they are in one and others have to weigh several options, then think it but life is not fair when it comes to who can afford a certain thing. EA and RD provide options when it comes to FA. ED is the only one that limits it. By the way, even a full fare kid who applies EA may not stop apps in Dec. because she wanted to get all college options and then decide and is why she didn't opt to do an ED school but just did an EA school to have one acceptance in hand. I don't think all kids who get in EA just stop the process. They keep other apps alive, in many cases, rich or not. With EA, both rich and poor benefit to have a favored school in the bag early. Some then wait til spring to weigh FA offers and others wait til spring to weigh college options in general, finances aside.</p>

<p>I don't quite get your point about how a wealthy student who gets in EA benefits because he can now attend. Such a way of thinking is saying that with ANY college application, if a full fare student gets in, she benefits because she knows she can attend and a kid who needs to consider FA can't do that. That is the case in general and I wouldn't term it unfair. It is just life. </p>

<p>Both types of students who get in EA still get in and find out early and there is no admissions benefit to either party.</p>

22

<p>EA benefits all kids, wealthy or otherwise, if accepted, in that it takes the off some of the stress in college applications. It is so nice to have a bird in hand. The only disadvantage I can see is that it can make kids lackadaisical earlier which can be a disaster if it results in grades going down, mischief cooking. For kids who need financial aid and merit awards, getting lazy can have greater ramifications, cuz those other apps HAVE to get in if there is going to be an array of choices in the end. I have seen kids decide that it just is not worth filling out more apps once an EA comes through even though it would be to their advantage to do so.<br>
EA can be a real downer if the answer is "no" especially if there is little headway on other apps. In the long run, this is good news in that you now can start looking at some other colleges that are not as selective with such a wake up call, but telling a rejected kid that is a hard sell. Better you find out in early Dec than in March or April. And if you are accepted, you may be able to narrow down your list to reaches only if you are happy with an EA school that accepted you. My one son was accepted to BC and was as please as could be, which meant other safety and match school apps were not necessary, just schools that he would consider over BC. Other so was deferred EA on some schools that required a modification of his list to include some more safety type schools.<br>
From what I have seen and read, EA also gives an edge in admissions, though it could be that the early birds just by nature are better admissions candidates overall. But I do think colleges are aware that an early admit could mean the end of the admissions process for some kids which is an attractive proposition, and that is taken into consideration in evaluating the early apps.
As for those kids starting the app process late, some of them can still apply early if their academic stats do not need the first semester push and if they can get their test scores by the due date. Throwing in a couple of rolling and early apps even before the colleges are selected is not a big deal. My son did a couple of EA/rolling type apps to some non selective schools that his GC recommended that had some appeal to him. They were free, online apps and easy to do. One actually would have been a consideration for him for a number of reasons. In any case, it was good to get a couple of apps out for him, as he was a late starter, only getting stuff out because mom was there with stick in hand.</p>

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<p>I didn't proofread my post before sending because my D was on the phone from Italy but my last line about no benefit for either party (rich or FA applicant) in the EA round with regard to admissions...I meant that there was not a benefit for one party over the other in EA, but there are some benefits in general from finding out early if you are in at a school, and/or in some cases a better admit rate in the admissions process. It is just that both the rich and FA applicant enjoy these benefits.</p>

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<p>sheesh; this is all much ado about nothing, IMO. Think about the discussion-- it is only a difference of ** sixty ** days in the life of a teenager -- Nov 1 vs. Jan 1. Moreover, for us Californians, it's only a difference of 30 days since the UC and Cal State apps are due Nov 30 (and have been for decades). </p>

<p>Good for your slow-to-catch on clients, sooz -- it's good for business. :-)Nevertheless, Chedva raises an excellent point -- why punish kids from a possible great holiday present when they are on top of things and do the research and narrow down their list in sept?</p>

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<p>bluebayou, no need to "punish" kids who are very ready by Nov. to decide on an ED school and then be done with it. I think it is great. I just think that the kids who SHOULD apply ED are the ones who are fully ready to commit, who have done all their testing, have fully explored colleges including visits and are ready for that step and binding commitment. What isn't so good are cases where kids feel that they MUST apply early some where. They don't HAVE to. </p>

<p>I also was saying that there are families who really start this process very late on one end of the extreme and then there are some who start really early (say pre-K...LOL) on the other. Just an observation. Not a judgement :cool: !</p>

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<p>EA or SCEA, rich or poor applicant, here's what maintaining an Early option does, for college admissions in general (& an applicant in particular). (So I'm inexplicably backtracking, again, on my otherwise ambivalent feelings about the various Early Rounds.) Given the effort & deadlines involved (including teacher recs) most students do not apply to an EA school that they would consider an unpleasant safety; it, is if nothing more, an acceptable match. (They may apply to a rolling admissions school as a safety, but usually not to an EA school.) EA acceptance in hand, many students (if not most?) feel liberated to reduce the number of college apps. If accepted, they can now pick & choose which other schools to apply to. Usually, then, they're not determined to apply to an add'l 14 <em>peer</em> schools to the EA school, just to ensure a match or reach acceptance.</p>

<p>I think when the # of applications is reduced overall, nationwide (but particularly at the very selective ones), it helps the colleges with predictions & indirectly helps others who have applied to the "elites": their apps can be read more carefully -- & distinguished better from others in the RD round -- if there are fewer of them.</p>

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<p>I believe a main reason that Harvard is eliminating EA is because they believe it does favor the well supported kids over those who are just getting by on their own with meager help from their schools and parents. You really need to get your ducks in a row to churn out the early app and do a good job.</p>

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<p>Different perspective from anothe Ivy:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006091401010%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thedartmouth.com/article.php?aid=2006091401010&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Furstenberg, however, says that early admissions programs are not as clear a barrier to low-income students as Harvard claims.</p>

<p>While disparities do exist between the quality of college counseling at high schools across the country, Dartmouth has worked to provide outreach programs to give students from low-income and minority backgrounds the opportunity to learn about the admissions process, Furstenberg said.</p>

<p>"We have worked hard to diversify the early decision pool with some success in recent years," Furstenberg said. "At the same time the overall racial and socio-economic diversity of the entering class has increased in recent years." </p>

<p>In addition, Furstenberg believes that Harvard's claim regarding the disadvantages of early admissions when it comes to financial aid packages is lacking when it comes to schools in the Ivy League.</p>

<p>According to Furstenberg, Dartmouth offers need blind admissions and extremely attractive financial aid awards to early applicants.</p>

<p>"If for some reason our aid award is not adequate for a student, we are very willing to adjust awards," Furstenberg added. </p>

<p>Of the 398 students admitted from the early decision pool to Dartmouth's Class of 2010, only about five students ultimately chose not to attend for financial reasons according to Furstenberg. Based on such evidence, Furstenberg believes that the early admissions programs of well-endowed institutions like those in the Ivy League pose minimal drawbacks to lower income or minority applicants. </p>

<p>Whether or not low-income or minority students apply early or regular decision is less important, Furstenberg says, than the ultimate enrollment of a diverse class.
In trying to illustrate another benefit of Harvard's recent decision, Jeremy Knowles, interim dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences at Harvard, pointed out the negative effects of the frenzy surrounding college admissions and of early admission programs in particular.</p>

<p>"These programs distort the high school experience by forcing both students and colleges to commit prematurely, based only upon the record at the end of the student's junior year," Knowles said. </p>

<p>However, Furstenberg maintains that Dartmouth's early admissions program has distinct benefits.</p>

<p>"Dartmouth is highly attractive and a first choice for many students," Furstenberg said. "Those students can simplify the process for themselves by having the option to apply to the College early decision."</p>

<p>Furstenberg believes that the admissions environment will undoubtedly change as a result of Harvard's decision. With the Ivy League previously enrolling about 25 to 30 percent of its students early, Furstenberg believes that Harvard's decision may lead to significant increases in the regular decisions applicant pools of these schools.</p>

<p>Without any early admission, Furstenberg speculates that students may face more pressure and uncertainty about realistic college choices, leading them to submit more applications. </p>

<p>"I think the bigger concern is that…we're all going to be under much more time pressure to sort through more applications in limited time because the regular pool would get larger," Furstenberg said. </p>

<p>Finally, Furstenberg responded to claims that students who gain early admission often disengage from their academic experience during the second semester of their senior year. He said he sees no evidence that this is a serious issue among the high performing students admitted to schools like Harvard or Dartmouth, who perform well until they graduate. </p>

<p>While Furstenberg believes Harvard made its decision with the right motives, he remains unsure if other institutions on par with Harvard will follow its example in the future. </p>

<p>"I give Harvard some credit for making a decision that they think is right," Furstenberg said. "We'll just have to wait and see what happens, but I don't see any evidence now that other schools will likely change their plans."
Harvard plans to closely monitor the impact of this change for a two- to three-year trial period in order make sure the change does not negatively impact student quality."</p>

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<p>Well, I think ED schools like Dartmouth are going to try very hard to justify why they are hanging on to ED.</p>

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<p>a prof at Syracuse in article in today's WSJ:</p>

<p>...For the universities that offer it, early admission is an option driven largely by applicant demand. It obviously would not exist it students and their families were not interested in it. To get rid of the program for the reasons typically given by critics -- suboptimal personal behaviors and imperfect information about the program -- seeks to correct private problems by eliminating consumer choices. This is silly. We don't ban items because people don't know about them, nor do we put an end to goods and services (even truly dangerous ones line guns and booze) simply because some people might fail to use them in beneficial ways. The public interest is best served in a market economy not by eliminating choices, but by increasing the information about the products and how to use them properly.</p>

<p>Still, it is true that Harvard's decision is a welcome one -- though not for the reasons cited by critics. Harvard simply does not need early admissions to build a stable, high quality student body.....</p>

<p>If...universities are really worried that early admissions disadvantage people who don't know about them, the solution is to market them more seriously to these populations -- not to eliminate choice for everybody."</p>

<p>I hope he sends his article to Lloyd Thacker. :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>
[quote]
For HYP, every single student that I know of (from a variety of schools) who was admitted EA or ED was better qualified academically than competitors from the same school.

[/quote]
This is exactly what I find when reviewing the stats from our PHS which sends a lot of kids to the elites. With 3 exceptions (all recruited athletes - DIII), all the ED/SCEA admits from our school have stats as strong as or stronger than RD admits over the years I have reviewed the spreadsheets. This goes for HYPSM, SWAM ( we don't have any of the P from this group :) ).</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Mafool, let me understand, how does a less wealthy kid not benefit in the same way as a more wealthy student in EA programs? Yes, the wealthy student can stop applying to colleges in Dec. if he wants, but the less wealthy student can also be accepted in EA and keep other apps live, and weigh all FA options in spring.

[/quote]
Well, one way that the less wealthy student is disadvantaged is that he cannot apply EA to those schools which reward the Early Bird with better finanial aid packages and/or merit aid. You can't apply SCEA to HYS and also early to a Tulane or a Lehigh or a wherever who might be well known for offering merit $$ to the stronger applicants, and for whom the best merit packages go to those applying earliest. Some even have early deadlines for their best merit programs.</p>

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<p>JMMOM, that may be true at schools that offer the best merit package to those who apply earliest. </p>

<p>Just for the record, I don't think the example works with Lehigh. My D applied RD to Lehigh and won a substantial merit scholarship there. She also applied EA to Yale. </p>

<p>I realize there must be schools that award merit on a first come basis. </p>

<p>However, D2, who also only applied RD, got merit awards to every school. The one she is attending, she got a merit award for four years that equates to nearly half the cost of tuition/room/board at a very expensive private. It's worth $80,000. </p>

<p>A less wealthy student CAN apply EA to schools. Maybe the situation is a problem with SCEA but there are not too many of those.</p>

<p>I think the problem is more when ya talk about ED as those who need to compare packages cannot do so with the ED situation.</p>

<p>I will add that we were naive and didn't even know that any of the schools they applied to offered any merit aid. Only two did on D1's list and she got it. All of D2's schools offered and gave it. In D1's case the two on her list that offer Merit, were Smith and Lehigh. She did not apply for merit. She just found out she got it. Other D did not apply for merit and we also enjoyed the surprise when opening the letters in the RD that she got it.</p>

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<p>jmmom:</p>

<p>according to their websites, one can apply SCEA to Yale and to Tulane's DHS IFF the Tulane app is RD and not EA/ED.</p>

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<p>from Yale:</p>

<p>"It is not clear that eliminating Early Admissions will result in the admission of more students from low-income families," Levin said in the statement. "Since such students are underrepresented in the Ivy League applicant pool, what is really needed is what Harvard, Yale and others have been doing in recent years: that is making efforts to increase the pool of low-income students who apply and strengthening the financial aid packages they receive."</p>

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<p>I thought the better financial packages come when applying EA, until I read this in USNews</p>

<p>"Timing of the application: Most schools admit a higher percentage of students who apply early. Only a handful of those schools, however, also give those early applicants better treatment in financial aid. Students who risk waiting and apply along with everybody else at the beginning of the year may lower their odds of admission but raise their chances of getting bigger offers from schools, says consultant Maguire."</p>

<p>Perhaps this is b/c USNews is taking the ED applicant into account, and as I understand, those packages might be weaker, b/c the applicant does not get a financial incentive to attend, since they have already committed themselves to the school.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Perhaps this is b/c USNews is taking the ED applicant into account, and as I understand, those packages might be weaker, b/c the applicant does not get a financial incentive to attend, since they have already committed themselves to the school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Or they applied ED because they had no need or felt they could meet the EFC and did not care to compare offers.</p>

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<p>Right, but my point is that it says that RD packages are better than those of early applicants. I am wondering though, if that is just b/c ED is in the mix of early applicants. In other words, is EA better, or RD better overall, for aid packages? I used to think that EA results in a better package, but now I am not so sure.</p>

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<p>it really depends on the school. Schools like Emory or Tulane require an early app to be considered for their big merit money; UAz offers money to OOS kids who apply early. OTOH, enrollment management gurus counsel colleges that an EA applicant is more likely to attend, so a school doesn't have to offer as much money to get them to matriculate.</p>

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<p>Okay, so is USNews saying this b/c ED is in the mix, or b/c a bigger lure needs to be there for RD than for EA? I think that my son actually faired better with merit aid at his EA schools, but this is obviously just the experience of one student, and is hardly a sample.</p>