<p>First year in law school can be rough economically, but if you are able to grab the golden ring (make Law Review or pretty close), you can find summer jobs with mega lawfirms that pay handsomely. I received an anonymous full tuition and books scholarship award for the last two years of law school that I always suspected was paid by the law firm I clerked for over the summer.</p>
<p>Muffy-Iāve wanted to become a lawyer since I was in middle school. Iām not letting money get in the way. And no, it wonāt count against me, but is it worth giving up-or deferring-my dream for 2-3 years for some change? I donāt want to go to law school to have a JD āsupplementā my career, I want to go school to become an attorney. Thatās best achieved by going straight to law school, regardless of expense. And perhaps I can intern at Wachtell after my second year (or first), earn $50k over the summer, and end up working there. As for changing my mind, itās much easier going law->business than the other way. A career in law requires a very specialized set of knowledge and skills that HAS TO BE OBTAINED by earning a JD. Business simply requires intelligence and intuition. The opportunity costs of getting a JD when Iām 22 is MUCH LESS than the opportunity costs of getting a JD when Iām 35. And by the time Iām 35, Iād say itās too late already, and I probably shouldnāt get a JD even if I really want to practice law.</p>
<p>Once I have my JD at age 25, Iām free to move between law and finance as I wish. In fact, the CEO of Goldman Sachs as well as Bruce Wasserstein have JDs.</p>
<p>My old bossās wife worked as a hospital administrator. Her employer paid for her to go to law school at night at Seton Hall. She had to prepay, and show her grades. They reimbursed for any class where she earned at least a B. </p>
<p>I had neighbor who worked for 2 years after undergraduate school for the purpose of paying off the loans she accumulated while an undergrad (about 15k). She enjoyed her time working in NYC, and then went to law school. BTW, she did not live on her own in an expensive apartment in NYC bc she definitely could not afford that. She lived with her parents for the two years rent free.</p>
<p>futureny, I did cross post with you.</p>
<p>Futurenyustudent: Try not to make such sweeping generalizations.</p>
<p>It is not too late at 35. I went to law school at 30 after going to grad school and working for 5 years. Graduated in the top 10% of my class (at age 33), went to work in-house at a corporation who treated me as if I was a 3rd year associate (I was a law librarian for 3 years and an academic librarian for 2), my salary was the same as my friends who took jobs with Jones Day and higher than most of the grads, except we worked in the office from 8-5 instead of 2600 billables per year and had fabulous benefits. (if you run the numbers, I was making much more than they were) By the way, I received job offers from several top law firms as well. I liked the corporate and academic lifestyles better.</p>
<p>It really depends on the personās specific case I guess. In my case, Iām aiming for one of those firms that make you bill 40,000 hours and pay you a ton of money for it. That means working 80, 90 or sometimes 100+ hours a week. Itās too late to do that at age 35. Yes, you can do it, but the burnout risk is much higher, and youāre far, far behind the kids that went straight to law school. There will be people younger than you who already made partner. And youāll be competing with people fresh out of law school who have nothing to lose and will give it everything theyāve got and more, and have the energy and lack of outside commitments to do so.And as long as Iām completely committed to pursuing a legal career, I think Iāll go to law school right after undergrad.</p>
<p>Itās like trying to become an IB analyst when youāre 30. You just canāt do it. People that were in the biz since graduating college are already associates or sometimes vice presidents.</p>
<p>My stats are at a very good private school in MA. UMass specifically told me through email that they understood that I went to a private school and that my stats were considered good enough. Calmom, I had a 30 on the ACT which is equivalent to a 1340 SAT. Furthermore, our #1 and #2 students didnāt get into the Honors College, along with every person who applied in the top 10%. </p>
<p>Calmom, you fail to realise the difference between California and Massachusetts. You are telling me to move out of my house during breaks and summers. If I do this, I will need to take all the money I make during work in the summer and pretty much use it on living expenses with limited going into tuition. This only works if I get huge amounts of merit aid.</p>
<p>My parents are not divorced. We have a low EFC because we are middle-class. My mom makes the finanical decisions.</p>
<p>Merit aid does not compound on to FA. At a private, they will need to give me a ton. Even at a ****ty, cheap private, if it costs about 35K, Iāll need a 26K merit scholarship to make my EFC. Then Iād get no aid after that unless it was merit aidā¦itās how FA works. The only schools that can afford to give that much merit aid to a TRANSFER are going to be privates with high endowments, not state schools. Iāve emailed many state schools; they donāt hand out alot of merit aid to transfers.</p>
<p>The requirements to transfer into the UMass Honors College is a 3.2 college GPA. So despite if you try to say I am lieing, as you have many times, I have a 3.7 at Bard so I easily qualify. However, I need to get merit aid from them, and the UMass system has less of an endowment than Bard.</p>
<p>Calmom, I sense that your just sour that there are people in bad situations because parents refuse to pay, and in an attempt to make it not seem so bad to justfiy parents neglecting their childeren, your are trying to make it seem like dropping out of a very good school to take classes at a CC in a states know for terrible CCs and living on my own in a state with a high price of living is a reasonable solution. Listen to yourself for a second. </p>
<p>I think you are seeing this as an attack on parentsā right and thats why you are getting so aggressive. Saying that I am lieing? Seriously. Grow up a bit. </p>
<p>Just so you guys all know, I talked to Bard because originally told me that if I got good grades Iād qualify for more aid. Turns out I have the maximum scholarship, and that I canāt. They said I may be able to get the Distinguised Scientist Scholarship, but there was some miscommunication. FA told me to talk to my advisor/research head about it because he could get my one of the scholarships because my grades were really good, but then he said that they donāt normally give it out to students already attending unless they have 4.0s. So he told me Iād have a chance if I finished this semester with about a 3.8, and then get a 4.0 at midterm report. I can get between a 3.8 this semester is I ace every final. </p>
<p>Calmom, this is a thread about āWhen parents refuse to pay anythingā. I was telling a situation of when my parents refused to pay anything because that is THE POINT of this thread. I was not whining. When you and other tried to tell me other options, I explained why they were very viable. </p>
<p>Calmom, unless youāve been in this situation, Iād like it if you just dropped it. You are telling me I havenāt done research, yet you havenāt yourself either. I have talked the chemists on campus; you canāt get a job in chemistry without a degreeā¦how am I supposed to get a tuition-reimbursement? All of your suggestions lead me to be kicked out of my houseā¦you obviously do not see the many implications of being kicked out of your home. Your seeing it from a one-sided parental view. I hope one of your kids leaves; then youāll see its not just āwhateverā. If I leave my home I am agreeing to permentantly sever ties with my parents and Iām not going to do that to take the risk that I may be able to live, work and attend community college, unknowing if Iāll be able to transfer into a 4-year college with any aid, and extremely unlikely that I will get into a good grad school for chem so that I may actually get a job. Thatās not a good risk to take, its not as easy as a simple suggestion on a message board.</p>
<p>All I am trying to say is that parents have to realise the implications of not helping pay for college. As youāve shown, there are pretty ****ty options for people why pay by themselves. Hope that you get 20K+ in merit aid and if so move out of your house? That is not always possible. Move out, go to community college, and transfer to a state school? Sorry this is not California, we donāt have strong community colleges and state schools donāt look at them very well. Just move out and work and go to community college? That is the best possible choice, but means that I can only go to community college untill I become an independant and means that I have to hope I can make enough money to pay for it all.</p>
<p>Those are all ****ty and mosly irrealistic options. Parentās should consider that; not paying for college can turn into a whole lot more than student loans.</p>
<p>Oh, and marrige being unethical? Marriage for the sake of financial means is unethical because the reasons for the creation of marriage, which was defined long ago when government and religion were almost the exact same, was to unify two whom were in love and to recognized them aid them as they began a life together. The law did not create marriage benefits so that any two people can just pair up to save money. The misuse of a legal system is unethical because there is not greate cause on a moral scale for which you are doing it for; you are simply doing it for yourself. This is abuse of the government which has been put into place to protect you. And notice I did not say it was immoral, but unethical. Because all of this occurs within the legal setting, ethics is based on the ethics as would be defined by the law, and certainly cheating the government for money is not ethical in their eyes.</p>
<p>
Itās not ābestā achieved that way. Itās just a faster route. Do whatever you want, (and you have that luxury because dad is paying,) but donāt discount the very, very favorable impression that past business experience will make on employers. You certainly have made a great deal of sweeping generalizations. All types of businesses pay for law school because there are very few fields that are not impacted by legal issues. Even those who plan to bolt as soon as the JD is earned are bringing newfound legal knowledge to their current positions as the schooling is undertaken. Companies know this, and many will pay. I know loads of attorneys who had their schooling paid 100%. Most planned the JD to supplement already successful careers, with no intention of leaving to practice law on their own. In fact, most never left their current career track (lots of engineers,) but have the option to do so if ever they choose. I know an engineer who published a legal textbook after earning his JD who has never practiced law, nor has any interest in doing so. I also know others who have shifted into full time law careers, greatly benefiting from their business backgrounds. </p>
<p>Only a teen would say that age 35 is too late for a new career! We parents must seem like dinosaurs to youā¦</p>
<p>
What made you think we were talking about waltzing in as a chemist? You would have to take a job that matched your qualifications, perhaps an administrative assistant in a firm that has nothing to do with chemistry. The point is to find a way to pay for your undergraduate degree. At many, many large corporations even the janitor or mailroom clerk gets full tuition reimbursement. That was the point. Make it work. Itās a matter of accepting things you just can;t change & moving forward to change those you can. If parental funding isnāt happening, for whatever reason, then look for creative solutions that donāt saddle you with crazy debt burdens.</p>
<p>Corporations just donāt offer to pay for undergraduate degrees in anything; theyāre not going to pay for someone to go to school in a field totally unrealated to their business. </p>
<p>Please cite where your heard corporations will pay for their janitor to go to college. Thank you.</p>
<p>Your all missing the point. The whole point of this is to show parents what they are getting their child into when they decide to not may when they have the means. You guys have shown how hard it is for a 18-year old kid to do it on their own; whether it is possible in all cases, it canāt be said.</p>
<p>Well, we have a local grocery store (it is a small chain in our area). I met someone who was working there full time as a butcher. They were reimbursing him for his classes where he got a B or better. His parents bragged to me about how much money he was making there as a recent high school graduate. That situation was working for him.</p>
<p>What kind of school was he at? State or community?</p>
<p>It definitely was not community college. That I remember. I cannot remember which school it was, but I know that it was an okay school, and I am thinking that it was a 2nd tier NJ state school (not a private), but I cannot be certain about that. He told me that he just needed to lay out the money, get a B or better and he would be reimbursed. Most of these situations, I believe, do not offer full reimbursement, but do give 80% back. This is not bad. He was part of union while employed there, and they might do the negotiating for these perks. Apparently, the salary for working as a butcher was not bad either.</p>
<p>āCorporations just donāt offer to pay for undergraduate degrees in anything; theyāre not going to pay for someone to go to school in a field totally unrealated to their business.ā</p>
<p>Really? I admit, I retired from Silicon Valley companies about 10 years ago, but this used to be a very common perk among both new and large (IBM, Lucent, AMD) companies. There were many a receptionist, admin, or shipping clerk that were taking advantage to get their bachelorās degree. And many a engineer getting masters, or even law degrees. At the time I remember it didnāt matter what the class was, you just had to get a āBā or better. I remember taking marketing class from UCSC, and my husband was taking technical classes from UCB though he already had a masterās degree from Stanford. His Stanford masterās was partially paid for by his employer, right up until the time they went out of business.</p>
<p>So yeah, public or private, related studies or entirely unrelated, the corporations would pay for both undergrad and graduate studies, and even classes not going toward a degree.</p>
<p>I agree with UCD. I used the tuition perk at several of my jobs. No you can not use it to go to school full time, but you can often take two to 4 classes a year. Depends on the corps. bennies.</p>
<p>Many corporations do, in fact, give all full time employees the same basic benefits so it wouldnāt surprise me if the employees paid the least could get a tuition discount.</p>
<p>Not being able to pay comes from a variety of reasons. While we have a decent income and on paper should be able to fork over a big chunk of education life changed dramatically in the few years with a income reduction of over 30%. We have two kids and both will be going to college. There is enough money saved for state college/university/housing for about 1 1/2 years for both of them and we will be able to help out some monthly. We can handle the state college tuition; itās the housing that gets expensive. They will have to work or get scholarships.</p>
<p>Futurenyustudent,
MY DH worked for a Fortune 100 firm for five years before giving it up to attend an Ivy law school. Are you nuts? Law schools LOVE people who have had real world experience. Makes them much better attorneys (or whatever their interests lead them into). We saved our money, paid off whatever we could, and took the leap. He got some scholarships and loans; my job paid for living expenses. Weād been married three years when he went back to school, so it was a joint decision to take this plunge. He graduated from law school at 29, and had many, many offers.</p>
<p>Among DHās law school classmates were a high-risk OB-GYN who had worked at Brigham and Womenās, a late 40s anethesiologist, and a 50-something screenwriter who hit it big during his time at law school. </p>
<p>DH had an undergrad business degree from an Ivy. Trust me, law firms value people who can crunch numbers. All too many lawyers (even at good firms) donāt have that kind of background. This combination of skills has been his competitive edge for many years.</p>
<p>DH was even turned down the first time he applied to law school. (Granted, he decided to try one month before the deadline, after getting his LSAT scores. We really planned on him entering a year later.) Tried again, applied widely, spent months working on his essay, and got in the second time. Graduated magna, was a senior member of law review, Order of the Coif, got a federal clerkship. Did the private practice thing for a while, is now in govāt where he is valued for being able to wear multiple hats and work private firm hours.</p>
<p>Are you sure its still any degree? I would consider looking into this, but I had a friend whoās dad worked at a large plumbing company and they paid for his undergrad, but only in engineering. I also had a friend whoās sister was paid for by the firm she was a receptionist at, but only for law-related classes. The school my mom is working at is paid half her MA, but only because it was in education.</p>
<p>You wonāt know until you inquire. I would think that different companies will have different requirements for their employees. Just because one guy you know had a limitation, does not mean the same rule applies to all companies. If you want to try this route, you might need to shop around and not give up after contacting a handful of places.</p>
<p>If you have great computer skills, are organized, learn quickly, are a āpeople-personā and have prior employers who will vouch for you there are many companies who would hire you for an entry level clerical kind of position. My office is always looking for clericals and college education is not necessary. Some company websites do advertise that they provide education benefits. I donāt know anything about pharmaceutical corporations but I guess they need entry level people tooā¦</p>