<p>So…theoretically …if your student does not have a high gpa (but high test scores)…and you are middle class…there is (generally speaking) little to no money likely available? Except for parent-cosigned giant loans?</p>
<p>I’ve definitely developed the beginnings of an ulcer over the past few days thinking about this (son’s PSATs just missed NMF cut-off…).</p>
<p>JS - Ds missed it by two points last year. NMF only buys you big $$ at some places and often not much more than the $2,500 award. D, who didn’t get it is elgible for full ride at Univ of Oklahoma, close to full tuition at Purdue and is being called about many others based on her ACT/SATs, not NMF. Just lookaround and see what there is. Most schools do have a particular GPA or class rank in mind for the big bucks. If you are UMC, not UMR there is a lot less out there than there once was. The Texan that moved to the WhiteHouse and his buddies hate the middle class. Sorry for the politics…</p>
<p>I think what I’ve learned (since maybe May 07) is a non-public MAY be a best fit, but think about dropping your acdemic/prestige standards a few notches if you need some money. Personally, I think that means a lot less pressure on the kid to do choose a major or career that parents approve of, or that will pay off loans. </p>
<p>And I’ll let you know how this URM with a 45k EFC plays out…all the folks we know in that situation go public…</p>
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<p>I believe Stanford (a PAC10 school) used to give out athletic full rides. Is it not the case anymore? Not that anyone in my family qualifies, but some of D’s friends are national-caliber athletes looking at that school.</p>
<p>Jolynne, there is always the SAT or ACT! Second-tier schools that are too competitive have some great merit $$ (Seattle U, U of Portland, L&C College OR, Willamette, Linfield - PN schools).</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, you converted me in my first week on this site. No wailing here, though. More like a thud as my jaw hit the floor — everything I assumed about affording college was wrong. Still have tons to learn, too.</p>
<p>Curm,
I’ think you’ve hit the target. A lot of parents think that there will be merit money in the pipeline for their hard-working, high-scoring kids, and that FAFSA/PROFILE won’t expect the equivalent of 45% of current income. And for a lot of families, that realization doesn’t happen until various points in senior year, at which point a $30K EFC smacks them between the eyes.</p>
<p>We have very good friends whose D will likely be 1/400 in her class, ECs and awards out the wazoo, and a very interesting story of life in rural northern CA. (Stats are well in the range for a Regents at the UC of her choice.) She and DS have been intellectual soul mates since they shared the bathtub together as toddlers. </p>
<p>The lack of communication between parents and daughter about what is affordable and what they are willing to spring for is painful. Her parents don’t want her to attend community college, yet won’t pay for a UC. Refused to let her apply to privates where she might get a better package. The anger and confusion is tremendous. </p>
<p>DH and I witnessed their conversations over the summer and couldn’t believe it. We’d discussed this stuff between ourselves and with both our kids starting in freshman year. The D has become disenchanted with the entire process, has decided not to get her hopes up, and I’m willing to bet she’ll be at a CC this fall by default.</p>
<p>We aren’t wealthy, and EFC will cause real pain. But we made that decision and will deal with the consequences. The guys know they will need to contribute through loans and work. It won’t be a surprise to them. But because we’ve been having this financial conversation with them over a long period of time, the kids have gotten to see how we make decisions about how to spend money, and what factors figure in. It’s not just Mom and Dad being cheap or selfish.</p>
<p>OTOH, last weekend, DS2 advocated that we pay for leaf collection this year so we’d reduce our bank account balance for FA purposes… ;)</p>
<p>How about schools that only give merit based scholarships - my oldest was accepted into St. Joe’s (philly) and awarded a very nice merit scholarship based on her gpa and SAT’s. Covered over 1/2 tuition.
After the financial aide award came we found out they give NO need based aid and they expected us to take out a gazillion dollars in loans. The price tag was over the top - she went to another school that awarded her a nice merit scholarship plus a need based grant and that put the price tag to the same as what we would have paid at a state school.</p>
<p>One more thing about renewable scholarships - they get smaller through the years - tuition rises but the scholarship doesn’t.</p>
<p>I should add that these “full ride” tales are told in my area about private high schools, too. Parents who are too proud to admit they receive financial aid call it a scholarship, either adademic or athletic. Other parents, eager to get little Johnny into the fancy prep school, get excited, only to be let down when the truth of strictly need based aid is revealed.</p>
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<p>you aren’t kidding the EFC and what you can affored are not synonomous.</p>
<p>What is worse is that the financial aide award and the EFC often aren’t close either.</p>
<p>I keep telling my kids they have to get good grades in hs to get into college and the older ones screech at me that EVERYBODY in their high school gets into college and I have to explain that if they get good grades they can go to a private school that has GOOD financial aid but we are not paying forty plus thousand dollars for some school no one has ever heard of (we’ll pay for any in-state public college). This will probably result in sibling inequality and a lifetime of resentment.</p>
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<p>Historically, the word “scholarship” implied financial aid. What Harvard means when it says “scholarship” is need-based financial aid.</p>
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Muffy, sounds like you’ve been visiting with my teenagers while I’m away. 
Oh, is that true here. We have polar opposite S1 and S2 (sophomores) who will start college together. S2 is high achieving in everything, multi-talented, highly accelerated, hard working, the kind of child you dream about giving the best you can afford. S1 is a wonderful young man and talented athlete but lazy and irresponsible. Nothing is ever his fault, EVERYTHING is EVERYONE else’s fault. You had better believe we are talking differently to S2 than S1.</p>
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<p>We’ve floated down that river, and so far it’s been OK. We’ve paid a lot more for one than the other but the younger one candidly admits that he hasn’t put anywhere close to the same effort as his sibling did and doesn’t really want to knock the lights out in college. (Our mantra is that if you want us to pay for a top-flight school, we want a top-flight effort in return.) </p>
<p>He found a good in-state fit.</p>
<p>In my family my sister and I where dutiful and responsible kids who found a way to pay for college; My brother was the “irrisponsible” one , but mom paid for him to go to a private school…then he droopped out. I’m only mentioning this because i need an excuse to say " HE JUST GOT NOMINATED FOR A GRAMMY!!!".</p>
<p>Hey, that’s exciting Shrinkrap! Nice that you are happy for him instead of resentful. I love your name, btw. When I started my psychology practice, a friend suggested I call it Bethie’s Shrink Shack. Sadly, I did not–a waste of a great name.</p>
<p>Oh and back on topic, I totally get parents setting limits on what they can afford for college. I have seen a couple of situations I do not get, including a friend’s dear niece who’s wealthy parents wouldn’t pay a penny for their straight-A hard-working D to go to college. My friend (and she is not wealthy) paid the tuition and her brother was MAD AT HER for doing it! He was successful without any college, so he thought his D didn’t need college either.</p>
<p>It is exciting, and for lack of a better way to stay on topic, I always have to remind myself there are so many ways kids can be “bright” and can succeed.</p>
<p>congratulations Shrinkrap! I like to hear about kids who didn’t go to or graduate from top colleges and lead productive lives anyway!</p>
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I wouldn’t agree with that. My 90 year old uncles had to sit for examinations to be awarded scholarships way back when. Even at the h.s. school level it was clearly specified that scholarships (awarded based on performance on scholarship exam) did not take need into consideration. Around here, only Catholic schools offer them. Financial aid is a totally seperate category.</p>
<p>I think the solution to this problem is to make parents legally responsible for longer. </p>
<p>I’m sorry, but not every states has good community/state colleges. I live in MA and I have to pay for college by myself. Our community colleges suck, and our states schools are not much better. My parents only paid for private school for me and my brothers because: 1. I got a scholarship. 2. Our town has one of the worst public schools in the state. Had I known that I was going to pay for college by myself, then I would have never tried in high school. I wouldn’t have let her send me to private school; I would have told her to put the $26,000 away and pay for my first semester of college with it. I could have gone to UMass Amherst with much lower grades in non-honors classes and have paid the same price as I would if I had enrolled there this fall, maybe even less because I would have been able to get the Adams Scholarship. Either way I have to take about $80,000 in loans to go to college and get a degree. Seriously, if you love your child, I don’t see how you could let them go through with loans like that.
If your not going to pay for college, you have the obligation to make it clear to your child and explain to them how much they will need to pay on their own. Educate yourself; my mom assumed she could emancipate me and then found out she couldn’t. She then decided on her own that I would get loads of aid and pay close to nothing, but guess what? She was wrong. She then told me I would get scholarship at my safties and I could go there for cheap. Well, again she was wrong. Scholarship is part of your aid package, and thus you pay the same either way.</p>
<p>Seriously parents, don’t get your kid’s hopes up. If they aren’t going to be able to even afford state school, make sure thats clear. Because it really sucks when you have to live knowing that once you get out of college…your life is going to suck, for a very long time. I’ll be living at home for a long time, even after gradute school. How am I going to have my own place and pay off $100,000 in loans? Heck, I won’t be marrying anytime soon. I won’t be able to afford a family.</p>
<p>I’m not a whiny, spoiled kid. I’ve worked since 8th grade and worked two jobs all of junior and senior year. I’ve always paid for pretty much everything I own. But if you knew how it felt to find out I couldn’t even afford a state school…it’s the worse feeling in the world to know that there are parents who will pay a majority of the EFC and your parents could care less. Oh, and then they buy a car that costs EXACTLY the same as your freshman year. As parents, you don’t see it. But kids who are paying themselves notice it when you pamper yourself but don’t help them. This year, my parents paid for books. Gee, thanks mom. Maybe I’ll buy you some books when I’m no longer in $100,000 worth of debt.</p>
<p>Shrinkrap - I’m five pages behind in reading this thread, but I did want to respond to your mention of Mills as a place with good financial aid, including merit aid. I’m a Mills alum and got a great aid package there (long ago). It was even better than the deal offered at that time by the UC’s Regents Scholarship. I recently took a student from my kids’ high school to the Mills visiting day, and it sounds like financial aid is still very good.</p>