When people don't vaccinate their kids

[Pizzagirl]

Oh I just meant in general. Can the average American name a member of the Cabinet or Supreme Court? No, but they sure can tell you about Kim Kardashian.

[zeebamom]

The crunchy public K-8 in our school district has a 25% opt-out rate. It does not surprise me.

Chicken pox parties were still popular when my girls were really little. They both managed to get it from that other germ incubator, childcare/preschool.
Younger D did have a mild reaction to the MMR, low fever and a slight rash, but it was done in a day. We went on to get the others with no ill effects. I remember lining up for the Rubella vax when I was in grade school. I was deathly afraid of needles, but no excuses. That’s the way it was.

My doctor made me get a booster for DPT in 1995. I was going to England on business and she was concerned about the influx (at that time) of immigrants from Eastern Europe and possibilities. I’ve had boosters every 10years since

[HImom]

Yes, I get DPT shots every 10 years–tetnus is a very nasty and fatal condition that is PREVENTABLE! Have not heard of boosters widely available or recommended for other conditions after childhood.

[dietz199]

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[dietz199]

Okay…let me just say this…herd stupidity abounds. Much depends on continued herd stupidity.

[LasMa]

Get something in writing from insurer about why they would deny coverage if that is their position. If you get good info, get that in writing as well, via fax or email or snail mail.

You’re so right about the crapshoot known as health insurance customer service. You simply can’t rely on what you’re told, no matter how sure of themselves they sound.

When possible, I try to be sitting in front of a computer when I’m on the phone with customer service, and then ask them to direct me to someplace on the website which documents what they’re telling me. I prefer not to assume they’ll follow through with email/fax/mail. I’d rather see it with my own eyes before I get off the phone. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

[jym626]

And the outbreak is now in 3 more states…

[emeraldkity4]

Had. The key word is HAD. Meaning we’ve grown and developed.*

Really Romani? Aren’t you in Michigan?

http://woodtv.com/2015/02/05/target-8-goes-undercover-e-cigs-and-kids/

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) — Michigan is one of 11 states where it is legal for minors to buy and smoke electronic cigarettes. Target 8 sent ninth-graders undercover to see just how easy it is for kids to buy the e-cigs
The e-cigs are popular among teens with flavors like fruitloops and starburst. They’re sold just about everywhere: vape shops, gas stations and even grocery stores. Target 8 gave a WOOD TV8 employee’s daughter and her friend an undercover camera to see if local stores would sell to them.

Within seconds, the girls, 14 and 15, were sold an e-cigarette at a local gas station. When Target 8 confronted the store clerk she said store policy is to ID e-cigarette sales, but she thought the girls looked old enough…

A CDC study showed that in two years, e-cigarette use by teens has tripled.

[greenwitch]

I’d like to link this thorough history of vaccination and anti-vaxxers:

http://jezebel.com/nothing-short-of-attempted-murder-a-brief-history-of-a-1684813571

Now contagious disease is more abstract. It no longer kills entire families. And indeed, measles and whooping cough in particular seem to operate as somewhat of a fantasy for antivaxxers—the preventable disease, which is also “natural,” is synonymized with “healthy” and “safe.” Vaccines—man-made by untrustworthy scientists—must, therefore, be toxic or dangerous. But a time where nature was kind and benevolent can never be recaptured; it never existed. Like the Garden of Eden, a safe nature is a myth born of anxiety.

[romanigypsyeyes]

Um… so e-cigs are the same as cartoon characters that sell cigarettes?

I’m clearly missing something.

[greenwitch]

Something popped up on my FB feed this morning. I believe this Markham is in Canada.

This is my son Griffin, and he may have measles.

On February 9th, I received a phone call from York Region Public Health, informing me that Griffin, alongside my mother and I, was potentially exposed to the measles virus while attending a newborn weigh-in appointment at my doctor’s office in Markham on January 27th.

Griffin was 15 days old at the time.

I was informed that someone who later developed measles sat in the doctor’s waiting room between 1 hour before and 30 minutes before we arrived. I was also informed that measles is regarded as “airborne” and can stay in the air and on surfaces up to 2 hours after the infected person has left.

I was then asked if I had had the measles vaccine. I had.

Griffin. Griffin had not. Can not.

I was advised to not be around small children. If I worked in such an environment I would be written off work. I do work in such an environment; my home. Where I now sit with Griffin and my 3 year old, Aurelia, who has only been able to get one MMR vaccine so far. She is now, technically, exposed too. We are to sit tight and watch for symptoms: fever, cough, runny nose. If we develop any of these we are to call my doctor and arrange to come in under official medical precautions. We are to wait at home, in isolation, until February 17th, after which the 21 days of possible incubation will have passed and we are clear.

So, Griffin is now Schrödinger’s baby. Simultaneously with measles, and without it. Until he develops symptoms, or until a further 7 days pass. One or other.

And I’m angry. Angry as hell.

I won’t get angry at or blame the person in the waiting room. I would have likely done the same thing…you get sick, you go to the doctor. I have no idea what their story is and I will never know. But I do know one thing:

If you have chosen to not vaccinate yourself or your child, I blame you.

I blame you.

You have stood on the shoulders of our collective protection for too long. From that high height, we have given you the PRIVILEGE of our protection, for free. And in return, you gave me this week. A week from hell. Wherein I don’t know if my BABY will develop something that has DEATH as a potential outcome.

DEATH.

Now, let’s unpack this shall we. All out on the table.

You have NO IDEA what this “potential outcome” means. NO IDEA. I do. Unfortunately, I do.

You think you are protecting your children from thimerosal? You aren’t. It’s not in their vaccine.

You think you are protecting them from autism? You aren’t. There is no, none, nada, nothing in science that proves this. If you want to use google instead of science to “prove me wrong” then I am happy to call you an imbecile as well as misinformed.

You think you are protecting them through extracts and homeopathy and positive thoughts and Laws of Attraction and dancing by candlelight on a full moon? You aren’t. I PROTECT YOUR CHILD. We protect your child. By being concerned world citizens who care about ourselves, our fellow man, and our most vulnerable. So we vaccinate ourselves and our children.

You think you are protecting them by letting them eat their shovel full of dirt and reducing antibiotics and eating organic? You aren’t. As an unvaccinated person you are only protected by our good graces. WE LET YOU BE SO PRIVILEGED thanks to our willingness to vaccinate ourselves and our children.

You know what vaccines protect your children from? Pain. Suffering. Irreparable harm. Death.

And you would be the first to line up if you had an inkling of what the death of a child feels like. You would be crawling through the streets on your hands and knees, begging, BEGGING to get that vaccine into your precious babies because that is what I would have done, if I could, to save my daughter.

The fact is, there was no vaccine for her. Not for her illness. And she died. She died at age five and a half, and she is gone.

And I watch these arguments trotted out on Facebook and twitter citing false science and long discredited“studies” that just won’t stop and Jenny McCarthy quotes and “it’s MY choice” to not vaccinate…and I think…what would you have done if your child lay dying? Would you give them a scientifically proven, safe and effective vaccine and risk the minuscule likelihood of a side effect? Or would you let them go, knowing that at least they won’t develop autism (which they wouldn’t even develop anyway because SCIENCE)?

And don’t you DARE tell me that you wouldn’t vaccinate them then. Don’t you dare. You have no idea what it feels like to go through what we went through.

So, look at Griffin. Tell me why he gets to bear the brunt of your stupidity and reckless abuse of our protection? Tell me.

Seven more days until I know that my baby is safe. Seven more days.

How is your week going, anti-vaxxers?

[BunsenBurner]

This thread moves fast… so apologies if this has been already posted:

https://gma.yahoo.com/dads-heartfelt-plea-congress-2-old-leukemia-exposed-210618824–abc-news-health.html

[romanigypsyeyes]

@greenwitch I shared that yesterday on FB. Breaks my heart.

[rhandco]

I’m curious - if your child has cancer or another immune condition, and they might die from being exposed to a vaccine-covered illness such as the flu, how can that fact legally prevent my child, who cannot get the flu vaccine but will likely not die from the flu if she gets it, from going to school?

Isn’t it the child who is risking death the responsibility of their parent? Does it matter if I follow an obscure sect that says “don’t vaccinate” or if there is a valid medical reason for the exemption? Nope, measles doesn’t care.

And what about students from other countries? Do they make them make up all childhood vaccines instantaneously? I highly doubt it, most immunity is conferred from multiple shots. Do they make the new student who has started but not completed all required vaccination courses stay out of school?

And what about parents and teachers? Does the parent of the child with cancer know that all parents, teachers, administrators, and staff were properly vaccinated and are of no risk? Do you make parents who have babies keep them home because they can’t be vaccinated, and the child with cancer can’t be exposed to them?

I would love to see some real data on how many children both:

• are able to physically attend public school without unreasonable accommodations and
• cannot start a course of vaccination

As for private day cares, they can refuse to care for a child because it is too great a risk.

I cannot believe the unmitigated gall quoted in post #2410. And as usual, the idea that all vaccines, every single time when administered, are 100% safe and effective (different from “safe and effective”) is wrong. Wrong. So many people going on about things they know NOTHING about.

That quote is EXACTLY the mode of thinking of anti-vaxxers, that each individual is more important than the rest of the world.

(Regarding post #2401 - it should be MANDATORY to report vaccine compliance rates to a public or private school population, and to the government. Any public school with a vaccination rate less than the national average should have mandatory vaccine education classes for every parent. Every public school should send out a letter with their vaccination rate for each type of illness.)

[neuroticparent]

Shout-out to LA-area pediatricians who won’t accept unvaccinated kids and are requiring current patients to be innoculated: http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me-vaccination-policy-20150210-story.html#page=1

[dietz199]

That quote is EXACTLY the mode of thinking of anti-vaxxers, that each individual is more important than the rest of the world…

So, look at Griffin. Tell me why he gets to bear the brunt of your stupidity and reckless abuse of our protection? Tell me.

Spot On! And there in lies the irony. I’m special because I can’t be vaccinated therefore, you who are not special need to make sure I am safe. You must treat me with the specialness I deserve! And, to belabor my point…when every one is special, no one is.

Sorry, dude (or dudett), doctors offices are a petri dish of germs. As are ER’s and hospitals in general.

No one is going to convince the anti-vax crowd to join the herd by using the excuse…I’m special and don’t or won’t or can’t run with the herd, so YOU need to become herd compliant to protect me and my specialness.

Really, folks…in the end YOU ARE NOT THAT SPECIAL. You are but a speck in a herd of - what are we now - 6 billion. If we accept this a society…much could be solved.

[teriwtt]

@greenwitch - beautiful post! Thanks for sharing.

[Pizzagirl]

Dietz, your post doesn’t make any sense. There is no moral equivalency between “I have a health condition which precludes me from being vaccinated” from “I’m too special to be vaccinated because I just am.” One is real, the other is made up out of whole cloth.

[LasMa]

Thank you for that, @greenwitch‌ .

[Hunt]

I’d like to take a shot at explaining why there is a difference between a “personal belief” exemption and a religious exemption. The difference is the Fee Exercise of religion clause in the Constitution. That requires government entities to accommodate religious beliefs unless the public interest in not doing so is strong. So, for example, a prison has to let a Muslim prisoner grow a beard if it’s part of his religion–but it doesn’t have to let all prisoners grow beards based on their personal beliefs. Religious beliefs are specially protected under the Constitution.

I think there should not be religious exemptions for the requirement to have vaccinations before attending public schools, because the public interest outweighs, in my opinion, any need to accommodate in that situation.