When people don't vaccinate their kids

Parents Forum Parent Cafe
2421

“And there in lies the irony. I’m special because I can’t be vaccinated therefore, you who are not special need to make sure I am safe. You must treat me with the specialness I deserve! And, to belabor my point…when every one is special, no one is.”

Some people ARE “special” insofar as they are disabled and need, let’s say, larger, close-in, handicapped parking spaces. We don’t think it’s “entitled” on their part to ask that those of us who aren’t in wheelchairs refrain from taking those spots. So I don’t know why you think it’s “entitled” for people who can’t be vaxed for med reasons to ask that those of us who can be vaxed go ahead and do so.

2422

Thanks for sharing this @greenwitch. Why do people feel it’s ok to let the rest of us vaccinate our kids to keep their kids safe?

I totally agree. The only kids that should be allowed to “coast” on the immunity of the herd are the ones who really cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, and those who were vaccinated and didn’t get immunity. Enough is enough.

2423

You may see “unmitigated gall,” but for the most part, I see a great essay. Keep in mind this woman has already lost one child and now her other child seems to be at risk.

I can totally sympathize with her after what she has already been through, and she makes some EXCELLENT points.

2424

Dietz- As others have pointed out, you’re dealing in false equivalences.

A few more…

You have a handicapped sticker because you’re in a wheelchair. I’d like one because I believe long walks cause damage to my heart so I should be able to park next to the front door. The doctors all tell me I’m healthy as a horse but some guy on the internet says walking causes heart disease and I choose to believe him. If the spot’s filled by my car when you try to park, too bad. It’s a good thing everyone else parks in the regular spot so I can have the handicapped one.

You child isn’t toilet trained because he’s profoundly developmentally disabled. Mine isn’t because despite the fact that he’s 6 I don’t want to push him to do anything he doesn’t want to do and he’s decided he likes to go to first grade in diapers. He also doesn’t like to be changed by anybody but mommy. If the other kids don’t like the smell too bad. I’m doing what’s best for my child.

Your child is allowed an afternoon snack in school because she’s diabetic. I believe all humans should eat every two hours so I demand that mine be allowed a snack too. Furthermore, my child eats only peanut butter crackers, so you’d better switch the kids who are allergic to peanuts in another class. Luckily there are only a few of us demanding peanut butter crackers so there’s another class to send those pesky allergic kids to.

Some cases are special. Others are not.

2425

Well in a perfect world the exemptions would remain the exception. But we know that is not the case

http://sfist.com/2014/11/17/san_franciscos_disable_placard_abus.php

Just look at the abuse of handicap stickers in one city. Now twice as many people are special when compared to 2008. Specialness grows.

Regretfully, the examples you give and assume to be absurd - aren’t. Are you going to tell little Susie that she can’t eat every two hours because she can’t show a medical record verifying diabetes? What if she has anxiety which is relieved by peanut butter crackers…and ONLY peanut butter crackers. Why would the child with diabetes get a special consideration, but Susie wouldn’t? Who gets to make the call? Is sending the peanut eaters to a separate section any different from sending the peanut allergic to a separate section?

Do you propose forcing uncomfortable physical contact upon the child who wishes only to be changed by his mommy? Leaving them in a diaper would obviously cause not only mental but physical damage…so…accommodations must be made. And the smell won’t kill anyone.

And…the exception list is unbounded. I didn’t make the rules, or the exceptions to the rules. Just pointing out how we got here and that attempting to shut down one group of self identified special folks either won’t work…or lead to the fair and justifiable shutting down of a large number of other exceptions.

2426

There was a really well written op-ed piece in the NY TIMES earlier this week by a doctor who had been I believe a resident at Philadelphia Children’s Hospital during a measles epidemic in Philadelphia in which ultimately 9 children had died and hundreds of people were extremely ill, many hospitalized. The source was a young person who had traveled from Europe and attended a concert at The Spectrum but the infection spread and a significant percentage of those sickened were members of two fundamentalist churches who did not believe in vaccination and among that group were the parents of the nine fatalities who did not want to have their children’s illness treated, preferring to pray instead. The rest of the article which was called What Would Jesus do about the Measles dealt with legal steps taken by the state to deal with immunization to stop the infection spreading as well as the writer trying to understand from a biblical perspective on how and why tending to one’s children precludes them from medical care and how purposely harming their children can be reconciled with the higher mission of caring and sheltering them.

2427

The measles epidemic took place in and around Philadelphia in the early 90’s

2428

Wasn’t it just a couple of years ago that there was a measles outbreak in a church in Texas because a pastor basically told his congregation that to get the vaccines is equivalent of believing that God can’t protect and heal you?

2429

@teriwtt - this reminds me of a Jewish tale (and in fact, Jewish people have as far as I know always believed in using the most modern medicine available):

A man lives his life in piety and goodness and becomes elderly. A huge flood comes to the town, and the residents are warned to evacuate. The man says, “God will save me,” and stays put. The flood waters approach and the man prays to God, but nothing happens.

A rescue truck comes by on its last pass and the workers beg the man to come aboard, but he says, “God will save me,” and stays put. The flood waters rise and the man prays to God, but nothing happens.

A rescue boat comes by and the captain begs the man to come aboard, but he says, “God will save me,” and stays put. The flood waters rise and the man prays to God, but nothing happens.

A rescue helicopter comes to the man’s building and the pilot begs the man to come aboard, but he says, “God will save me,” and stays put. The flood waters rise, and the man prays to God…and the waters rise and he drowns.

The man gets to heaven and complains:
“God, I believed in you; I lived a good life; I prayed to you - why didn’t you save me?”
“Look, Shlomo, I sent a truck, I sent a boat, I sent a helicopter…”

From my perspective, religious people can believe that God is sending research scientists and vaccines…

2430

I heard that same joke from a Catholic priest. :wink:

2431

Well, it can be an nondenominational joke I suppose. The point here is that even if someone is religious or has a sense of a special divine spark etc., that doesn’t necessarily preclude using SCIENCE. :slight_smile:

2432

Dietz, give it up. Your examples are nonsensical. You’ve jumped the shark.

2433

Pizzagirl: we are obviously all entitled to an opinion. Thanks for sharing yours. Silencing another is of course a last resort

2434

“Regretfully, the examples you give and assume to be absurd - aren’t. Are you going to tell little Susie that she can’t eat every two hours because she can’t show a medical record verifying diabetes? What if she has anxiety which is relieved by peanut butter crackers…and ONLY peanut butter crackers. Why would the child with diabetes get a special consideration, but Susie wouldn’t? Who gets to make the call?”

Normal, reasonable people can see the difference between “Susie needs to eat every 2 hours because she has medically verified diabetes and will have a medical problem if she doesn’t” and “Susie just wants her peanut butter crackers when Susie wants.” Please stop pretending that one can’t draw lines in between these scenarios.

2435

And schools certainly do that. Diabetic Susie would get the crackers and non- diabetic Susie wouldn’t. We do that at our school all the time and even 1st graders understand the difference.

2436

This is really the same as Pizzzagirl’s point, but: I refuse to believe that we as a people are too stupid to make a few sensible distinctions.

2437

Well, it can be an nondenominational joke I suppose. The point here is that even if someone is religious or has a sense of a special divine spark etc., that doesn’t necessarily preclude using SCIENCE*
Yes, I’ve heard it with other religions as well, depends on your audience. :slight_smile:
Physicists can be be very spiritual. I know one whose life work has been research regarding the God particle.

2438

@emeraldkity4 - that is interesting. To me, the joke sounds very “Jewish” in its interactions and final message and the arguing with God and the stubborn old man. I could also be convinced it sounds Jesuit. We may never find out, particularly because probably the helicopter is a recent folk addition and the joke in some form likely precedes written history…

2439

Isak Dinesen used a variation in one of her short stories, that she wrote in the 1930’s.
I think it involved a Cardinal.

2440

Not only can they, many, if not most, do. However that still leave the personal belief crowd - aka the ‘mindfully stupid’.