Sorry to hear you personally know someone who died as a result of chicken pox complications, @twoinanddone. I’m sorry for your loss.
It’s good that both chicken pox and shingles vaccines are available. Studies do show a fairly high failure rate for chicken pox vaccinations, at least as far as vaccines go, and also a potential link to the increase in shingles cases over the past few decades. So, yes, although I advocate vaccines in general including the chicken pox vaccine in particular, I personally don’t find it as clear cut as vaccines for some other illnesses. Just MY personal opinion.
Apparently for all of us old timers who suffered through chicken pox as children, re-exposure to the virus later on boosts and extends our immunity. My kids are old enough that the CP vaccination was not available when they were young – my son got CP at age 6, and my daughter had a very mild case when she was younger --possibly caught it from her brother but I can’t really remember now. So I guess tending to my sick kids would have given me an immunity boost.
For those of us who caught “wild” chicken pox back in the day, and who are too young to get the shingles vaccine, should we be dong anything like getting the chicken pox vaccine to avoid shingles…?
I had chicken pox naturally as a kid. Measles and mumps had been largely eradicated by then. My H never got them and he got them as a young adult (25) and missed my college graduation! He was miserable.
My kids had the c pox vaccine and still both developed c pox. My D also got shingles in college. Having said that, I still believe in vaxes.
My H administers flu vax and there are too many idiots who suffer the flu one year, go to him because they are miserable, but refuse the flu shot. Because there’s “no guarantee.” And because toxins. Sigh.
@Pizzagirl yep! It’s funny though because the ones who refuse flu vaccine because of true anti-vacc sentiments are usually the ones begging for Tamiflu. I have found the side effects from Tamiflu to be MUCH harder than the faccine.
The CP vaccine became available when my kids were little. When I asked about it at a checkup my kids’ pediatrician said her practice was being conservative and recommended waiting until more data on effectiveness and side effects was available. The next year they were recommending vaccination, a change that happened after they saw two cases of necrotizing fasciitis (flesh eating bacteria) in CP patients in the practice. Neither died, but one, a toddler who was our pediatrician’s patient, required a horrendous number stitches to close a gaping wound in her belly.
Even if a vaccine is only 50% effective (just making that up, I have no idea how effective cpox or shingles vax is) - I still want it.
To me it’s like this. I’ll buy a lottery ticket for a 1 in 300M chance of winning some money. I wear a seatbelt to avoid a 1 in a 21 chance of being injured in a car accident. If I’m going to do that, why wouldn’t I want a vaccine for a 1 in 2 chance of avoiding a horrible, debilitating, excrutiating, potentially life-altering disease? Heck, I’d take a vaccine that was only 10% effective to have a shot at avoiding shingles.
Those who have had chicken pox may get shingles in the future. There currently is a shingles vaccine, Zostavax, available in the US for people 50 years old and older. It does not appear to be completely effective at preventing shingles, although those who get shingles after the vaccine tend to have milder cases. A new shingles vaccine (currently called HZ/su from GSK) is in trials, which appear to show significantly greater effectiveness.
It is not entirely obvious if there is anything else to do for those who are under 50 years old.
Those of us who had wild cpox and are old enough can get the shingles vaccine. Some people younger than 50-55 can get it if they have immune issues. The cpox vaccine has actually been shown to be protective against shingles in recipients, so whoever heard that vaccinated people are more susceptible is mistaken.
The vaccine came out in about 1994-95 and after several years, a second dose was added. This increases efficacy. No vaccine is 100% efficacious. Cpox vaccine is about 85% efficacious last time I researched. Most kids who got cpox after the vaccine had a very mild case (very few pox) and a shortened course.
I think there will be some pressure to lower the age at which insurance companies will pay for the shingles vax (currently 60) especially if the more effective HZ/su vax is approved, because younger people and young adults who never got chicken pox can contract CP from someone with active shingles. Even for people who have been vaccinated for CP, some percent are not immune. And, CP in your 20s or 30s can be quite bad, not mild as it was for most of us who had it at age 6 or so. We have had clusters of unvaccinated kids and a few vaccinated came down with CP when a teacher was in the earliest stages of shingles. And, as calmom mentioned, our immunity is no longer renewed by exposure to kids with CP, so shingles will be occurring at younger ages.
I am 50 and will probably get the HZ/su vaccine when it is approved, even if I have to pay for it.
Someone who receives the chicken pox vaccine and then never gets chicken pox due to immunity will never get shingles, since shingles depends on the virus from chicken pox hiding in one’s body and then becoming active later during a period of lessened immunity.
However, it is possible that, with vaccination against chicken pox widespread, fewer actual chicken pox infections could mean that those who have had chicken pox (the actual disease, not the vaccine) before (and therefore could possibly get shingles) do not get their immunity “boosted” by exposure to people with chicken pox, so they may be more likely to get shingles.
When I paid out of pocket for shingles vaccine at Costco, it was under $200 and seemed a great price to avoid the misery H and D suffered from shingles. H had his shingles shot covered–we don’t want him to have a 2nd bout.
All of us, including the kids had chickenpox–in the wild.
My mom had Shingles in her early 40s. I was pretty young but I remember her not really being able to walk for a while (she got it on her thigh). She firmly believes that that is what triggered her Graves Disease (and indeed there seems to be some evidence emerging that shows it can be triggered by certain infections… although I’m sure the stress of suddenly having a disabled husband who doesn’t remember you- which occurred shortly afterwards- didn’t help.)
I’m scared of the Shingles and I am decades away from being eligible for the vaccine. But maybe this is something I should bring up with my immuno doc since it wouldn’t be the first time I’ve gotten a vaccine that is mainly for older adults (I’m looking at you, pneumonia vaccine, that I had to get after having pneumonia twice in a year and 5 times in less than 5 years).
I agree,@romanigypsyeyes, that talking with you immuno doc about the shingles vaccine is a great idea. Both D and H were thoroughly miserable with shingles, which motivated me to get the shot in my early 50s. It was under $200 at Costco and I paid it because insurer refused.
. It’s not called a “failure rate” for a vaccine because the rate of effectiveness is not tied to an individual. You can’t test a vaccine’s effectiveness in individuals because you cannot compare exposure histories. I don’t want to get too into the weeds with this, but suffice it to say that even a vaccine that is 60% to 70% effective IN THE POPULATION is considered successful. The effectiveness rate refers to the reduction of the disease in the population of people who have been vaccinated, not in an individual. So if there is a 70% reduction of the disease in the population, then there is less virus in the community and a reduced risk for any given individual – vaccinated or not – to become infected.
I’m just a layperson but I have read published research in medical journals that use the term “failure rate” when addressing both the varicella vaccine and others, @brantly. I do get your point, however, but I’d argue different vaccines have different effectiveness rates with the varicella vaccine being lower than some others.
@doschicos - I agree. @brantly - I think it’s important that there be discussions about vaccines, relative effectiveness, reasonable schedules, etc. Not every discussion of vaccine issues needs to be shut down for fear of a bunch of crackpot anti-vacc’ers spouting nonsense.
An example of something that is up for debate, for example, is whether a family with reliable pediatrician visits ought to get their newborn his/her first Hepatitis-B vaccine within the first week of life, or should that be delayed a few months. Another example would be about young adults who are thinking of getting the shingles vaccine; would that need to be repeated. And so forth.
The hepatitis B recommendation for newborns is to reduce the risk of mother-to-newborn transmission if the mother has an undiagnosed hepatitis B infection. Infants who get hepatitis B are much more likely to have chronic infections that can cause a lifetime of trouble (including higher risk of liver cancer).
Yes, and for a while newborns were getting the vaccine before they left the hospital because the at-risk newborns often don’t make it regularly to later pediatric visits.
We refused it for our youngest daughter until she was middle school age. Strangely, it was never required for our older daughters because they had been born before the protocol was established. They got it during middle school as well.