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^ Maybe there is a vaccine for that? 
And your edit was at 9:12, well after my response at 9:01. Just sayin.
What “sides” are accusing the other of ad hominems? Are you referring to the article I linked in the post above?</p>
<p>No matter. Have to get ready to go visit the family I mentioned above (the mom is the postdoc in Molecular Genetics) and meet her new baby. I always bring a gift for the older sibling. But what do you bring a 5 yr old who is asking about fractals? :eek:</p>
<p>Great NPR discussion about this recently. The doctor was from Childrens Hospital in Philly. He said that too often in his work, a parent will bring a child in who is dying from a disease that could have been prevented with a vaccine. They always say the same thing “we didn’t think this would happen to us”. And he said it was heartbreaking to see families lose a child to a preventable illness.</p>
<p>Honestly…I understand this is personal preference to some degree. We chose to have OUR kids and ourselves vaccinated…so we won’t catch the diseases those who are NOT vaccinated get…and could spread if the masses didn’t vaccinate.</p>
<p>Oh, and before you comment that I edited my post above, hugcheck, yes I did (to note the 11-12 minutes between my post and your edit of the one above)- but had computer problems so had to shut down and reboot to finish it , so it looks like a belated edit. And while you are entitled your passion about your beliefs, if you are going to incorrectly accuse someone of “ridicule”, its ill advised to ridicule in return with “meh”. Comes across as condescending. JMO.</p>
<p>If you are vaccinated, then it is assumed you think vaccinations work. Then why does it matter if I am not vaccinated or my children are not?</p>
<p>I find the articles disturbing where grown adults talk about how they got something like whooping cough, and then assume an unvaccinated child gave it to them. And they felt that THEY (the adults) should not have to get the shots, it was up to the children. We have had outbreaks at our schools where unvaccinated adults get illnesses and pass it on to others. The adults never feel they should be vaccinated. But these shots wear off. I had real measles as a child so I do not have to worry about the shots wearing off. I also had real Chicken Pox, and so on. </p>
<p>I have stopped vaccinating. Unless you educate yourself on all the issues, then don’t criticize. I am very prolife. I because very prolife after I held my premature son and watched him die. Then it was pointed out that in some states, it is still legal to abort a baby who is 23 weeks along. How can I stand by my prolife beliefs if I use or let my children use embryo derived vaccinations? In addition to that, in some countries, these shots are made illegal. Some countries also question the safety of injecting cells from aborted babies in to other babies. </p>
<p>I have had 1 relative die after the H1N1 shot in the 70’s and at least one other end up brain damaged after a series of regular vaccinations after the year 2000. In addition to that, I have known of 3 babies to die in less than 24 hours after getting their shots. AND, the number of shots being “required” now has doubled since my older children, who are 19 and 17 yrs old were born. </p>
<p>I was doing 1 shot a visit, but then my daughter got a fever of over 105 after her last shot, and it stayed that way for a few days and she had to be hospitalized and it was touch and go. No way will I ever do that again! When she is older maybe. But even when I took my 4 yr old in to get his DTP last year, the ped office only had the embryo derived version and was no longer carrying the non-embryo derived form.</p>
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<p>How about this? </p>
<p>[Fractiles</a> 7 Fractal Geometry Toy](<a href=“http://www.naturestapestry.com/fractiles71.html]Fractiles”>http://www.naturestapestry.com/fractiles71.html)</p>
<p>I have them in my art room for a free choice activity and the students love them.</p>
<p>OOH EPTR- wish I’d seen that!! I bought bead art (as recommended by grandma).</p>
<p>And so truly sorry you have been through what you have, lmkh, but until proven otherwise, the examples you shared are correlational, not causal. I came down with bronchitis that lasted for WEEKS the day after my flu shot this year. But it was not because of the flu shot.</p>
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<p>Many vaccines are not 100 percent effective, leaving us to rely on herd immunity to keep our kids healthy.</p>
<p>Two years ago my DD got pertussis from her roommate and spent weeks hacking and breathless. DD had gotten the booster but her roommate had not. At the time I was undergoing chemotherapy so I couldn’t nurse her back to health. A case of whooping cough could have killed me.</p>
<p>I don’t usually get involved in these types of discussions bc unless you have experienced repercussions from your choices (ie from vaccinating and/or not vaccinating) who has the right to make the decision for you.</p>
<p>But, there’s more than one way to skin a cat: </p>
<p><a href=“https://www.worldhealth.net/forum/thread/99358/vitamin-d-proven-more-effective-than-bo/?page=1[/url]”>https://www.worldhealth.net/forum/thread/99358/vitamin-d-proven-more-effective-than-bo/?page=1</a></p>
<p>Again, I’m only providing food for thought. Don’t shoot the messenger!!</p>
<p>lmhk - As people have reiterated multiple times on this thread, there are people who cannot get vaccinated for health reasons. In the case of the flu vaccine, which needs to be given each year, people with diseases that compromise their immune systems, like cancer patients undergoing chemo or HIV/AIDS sufferers, are particularly vulnerable. I don’t know where you get the idea that everyone complaining about vaccines is worried about adults who grew up before a vaccine and have chosen not to get it subsequently. Even if every adult who didn’t get vaccinated were refraining voluntarily, there is still the question of how much of a right a parent has or should have to make a decision that endangers their child.</p>
<p>… from some quick research, I believe that only the chicken pox, rubella, and Hep A vaccines are available only in strains derived from human embryos, so that isn’t an argument against all vaccines. </p>
<p>… If you are comparing accommodating beliefs about vaccines to accommodating other practices, the comparison is faulty because there is a huge difference between making an accommodation that may be a significant public health risk about making an accommodation that may not affect anyone else at all, and at worst has no risk greater than inconvenience. As such, we should probably table that line of discussion.</p>
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<p>Because not EVERYONE can get the vaccine. People like my mother (and many, many others) can die because they can’t get the vaccines themselves and people CHOOSE not to, leaving them vulnerable to completely preventible illnesses. </p>
<p>I think it is an incredible failure on our country that people do not understand herd immunity. Or they’re just selfish and don’t care- either way, it’s kind of disgusting.</p>
<p>Yes, it can matter if you and your kids are not vaccinated. They can get some of these things that are circulating. Yes, your business. BUt symptoms often do not manifest until after you are infectious and you can infect elderly, immune suppressed and others who are weak and for whom vaccines do not work. That’ s why. It’s the weakest of our people who can get hurt. Like my elderly mother, like my kid when he was on chemo, all of those bald little kids and some in recovery on the St Jude commercials. That’s upon whom you can give the death sentence. You and your kids are probably strong enough to fend off disease and not die from it. It it only were that the risks were all on the likes of you!</p>
<p>Stay with discussion of vaccinations, minus the theology. </p>
<p>One provocative comment was just removed which pitted one religion’s beliefs against another, thus violating Terms of Service. A few comments responded to that remark, so had to be edited.</p>
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<p>The fact that you posed the first question tells me you haven’t educated yourself on all the issues.</p>
<p>Since not everyone will get all vaccinations available, for whatever reason, its important to do what you can to boost your own health.
Weaning off sugar for instance, has great rewards for your physical & mental health, including your immune system.</p>
<p>How many people on CC have died of a vaccination? How many have died of the flu?</p>
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<p>From a purely selfish point of view, the number of vaccine-refusers is large enough to break herd immunity in enough cases that the selfish action is to get all of the vaccines that you can get, in case you encounter those vaccine-refusers bringing diseases to you.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, that does not help those who medically cannot get certain vaccines, or for whom a vaccine happens to be ineffective at stimulating immunity. These are the people who benefit from herd immunity.</p>
<p>I know some who have been quelled when a young man at college in our community, perfectly healthy, died of the swine flu a few years back. He was a peer of one of my sons. He died at college, an ivy league school of complications of swine flu. He was not vaccinated. That really hit hard around here. My son also has a friend who got whooping cough. Again a strong young man. Put him back a year, it did, and anyone who knew what he underwent would understand why you vaccinate your little one against this. Had he given it to any infants, that particular strain was virulent and the way it hit him, would have killed little ones and those immune compromised.</p>
<p>I personally know of two people who died from the flu…neither were previously compromised. I personally don’t know of anyone who died or suffered a severe reaction to a vaccination.</p>
<p>The question about whether any CC posters had died from the flu was meant to be rhetorical, because upthread we learned about the sad loss of poster Ugadog99 from the flu.</p>
<p>For anyone who missed jym626’s post (#627 on this thread):</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1589257-tribute-ugadog99-her-sudden-passing.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/theater-drama-majors/1589257-tribute-ugadog99-her-sudden-passing.html</a></p>