<p>That was just one of several which revealed your lack of knowledge about influenza. Look, I’m a nurse who has studied this for years and dealt with it in my profession countless times. I recently took a 10 hour course on influenza, and guess what? I learned stuff I hadn’t known before, not only about the vaccines, but about influenza in general. A couple of things contradicted what I had formerly believed. But that’s why we get continued education.</p>
<p>You don’t know what you don’t know. Part of being a grown up is being able to admit when you are wrong or misinformed and learn from it.</p>
Yes, I am aware. It takes about two weeks after you get the shot or something like that. </p>
<p>Nrdsb4, please explain to me what I exactly don’t know. I’m confused at to what you’re specifically addressing. I was previously speaking about how a non-vaccinated person cannot be pinpointed and blamed for “endangering” or “taking” someone’s life. Do you want to counter that?</p>
<p>An aside about vulnerable populations and influenza. It is generally correct that the most vulnerable from an immunity standpoint are most likely to become very sick when infected with influenza. The exception to this is pregnant women, who can get deathly ill in spite of being generally very healthy.</p>
<p>A horrible exception to this was the influenza pandemic of 1918-1920, during which approx. 50 million people died worldwide (numbers vary, but it was an absolutely devastating pandemic). When this virus mutated from a fairly typical virus to one of unbelievable virulence, its usual target population changed. The people most likely to die were those with strong, healthy immune systems. The virus caused the immune systems of these generally young and healthy adults to go into overdrive. Their end came quickly and absolutely horribly as a result of a “cytokine storm.” Ironically, those with weak immune systems didn’t have the capacity to generate such a strong response. They were the ones who seemed to do okay, which runs so counter to how we usually expect things to go. When the H1N1 virus popped up a few years ago, it caused some in the medical profession to go cold with fear as they began seeing young and healthy people dying of it. A young, healthy, and beautiful acquaintance of D1 died of it her freshman year. Fortunately it didn’t take hold in the way that the 1918 flu did, but I know it got those involved in infectious disease prevention even more determined to find a better performing vaccine for influenza. Most involved in this admit that the vaccine is still inferior and we have a way to go to find a vaccine which will generate better results. While some protection is better than none, it remains high on the agenda to do better.</p>
<p>It seems to me that as more and more recommended vaccines were added a larger outcry and rebellion occurred. To me it is the same as the number of medications one takes…it is ‘easy’ to gauge the interactions if someone is taking 2 medications, it becomes more complicated for someone who takes 3. And as per Dr. Oz (yes, a well known hag on daytime tv) by the time someone takes 5 or more meds they are pretty much guaranteed an interaction (either good or bad) which is not documented or tested.</p>
<p>So, when we started with a small set of immunizations early in the 1900’s we have progressed to an increasing schedule which now includes and annual flu vaccine.</p>
<p>My approach has been to vaccinate for some things and not others. Meningitis for kids…no brainer…their environment whether preschool or college dorm…is simply germ transfer haven. Chicken pox…no…not unless kiddle gets to a certain age and after many attempts to expose them they have refused to come down with the illness ‘naturally’. Our physician tried to sell this vaccines as a benefit to me…I wouldn’t have to be home with a sick kid for 2 weeks…I was willing to take that chance.</p>
<p>One of my kiddles had a severe reaction to the second MMR booster (I don’t remember which of these was the offending portion- it was one of the 'M’s). It is common for the severe reactions to not occur until subsequent doses. This kiddle receive the remainder of the series with the offending ‘M’ removed.</p>
<p>As for the HPV…they’ve stopped aggressively treating women who have dysplasia or atypical pap results related to HPV infection. Why is this? Because it is an infection that the body naturally clears in MOST cases. So, if you are living in a country which monitors your status on a regular basis, as is our case…then I recommended neither D or S get the vaccine. Also, when asked how long the HPV vaccines is in effect…no one could give me a definitive answer. So, why vaccinate 12 year olds only to have the protective effect be gone by the time one depends on it’s protection?</p>
<p>As for the multi vs single does flu vaccines…if you are a young woman of potential child bearing years…simply tell the person administering the vaccine that you can not guarantee you are not pregnant. You will receive the single dose. Why, no one wants to accept the liability of injecting a pregnant woman with a known harmful substance. Hmmm…wonder what that says about the rest of us.</p>
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<p>Oh if only we could apply this wisdom to all of our social ills, how wonderful the world would be!</p>
<p>I’m just going to let these comments stand on their own as revealing a lack of knowledge or understanding of influenza, its mode of transmission, the variability of responses among those infected and the relevance thereof, various strains and the implications thereof, prevention, treatment, and public health consequences of failure to understand and act appropriately to of any of the above.</p>
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<p>I will contrast that to someone who chooses not to get vaccinated, later gets what they believe to be the flu, and nevertheless goes out in public. That individual should be called out that they are in fact deliberately endangering others.</p>
<p>Niquii77, why are you so intent on trolling this thread? I don’t recall this as your usual pattern. You have admitted you know you could be making other people ill and cause a public health risk with your behavior. Are you afraid of needles or something? Or truly think your convenience (not stopping in for a shot) overshadows the risk to not only your health, but the health of others you come into contact with? Or just someone who can’t pivot off a destructive behavior even when you know it is destructive?</p>
<p>I think you do not have children of your own yet… and most of the posters out here do. It changes your perspective when you do – it definitely makes you think harder about how you have acted toward vulnerable people in society, as no one is more vulnerable than a newborn baby. I suspect that one day you will look back on this and be embarrassed by your callous attitude.</p>
<p>According to the CDC website regarding the Gardasil vaccine for HPV:</p>
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<p>But if you do wait to see if the vaccine provides life-long immunity, then it is too late for your kids. Why the h*** wouldn’t you vaccinate your kids against CANCER? Because that is what you are giving up by skipping this vaccine. Sheesh… your kids are not going to thank you in the long run if they get one of the cancers caused by HPV. Miracles of modern medicine, folks. Stop being Luddites.</p>
<p>Yes, let these comments in which were responses to posts of varying subjects stand on their own and be presented as to be in response to the same topic. Perfect example of manipulation, Nrdsb4.</p>
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Yes, their act deliberately endangered others. Let’s hope the reason why the person went out is a legitimated reason that lessons the blow to their character.</p>
<p>@intparent I don’t see my actions as “■■■■■■■■”. I merely communicate and perceive things in a different way than you guys. I am well aware of the difference of perspectives throughout this thread, more aware than many of you may believe. What you may view as callous may be indifferent to another. All about perception.</p>
<p>Influenza di freddo - “influence of the cold”, an Italian phrase, is where we get the word flu from. Because the virus is more stable in cold air, it transmits to more people in colder weather and becomes dormant in warmer air. Usually the very old, very young and already sickly people are the most vulnerable but not always.</p>
<p>My D2 had the H1N1 flu, a couple of months before the special shot for it was available. I think it was early September. There were frantic lines for the vaccine when it became available and one of the places that suburban moms would go was inner city DC, because the locals there, mainly African-American, didn’t trust the vaccine. Having been experimented on by the government in a way that was not good for their health has left a definite scar. </p>
<p>H works in a hospital that insisted that all its workers get the flu shot each year. They began that rule a few years ago. A bunch of nurses caused trouble about it but the hospital didn’t budge. Some people tried to bring up religious freedom but the hospital didn’t budge. Still, they can’t control the vaccine status of the visitors and delivery people that come inside the building each day. They also can’t control whether or not the vaccine makers have guessed correctly and have made a more effective vaccine.</p>
<p>“Research suggests that vaccine protection is long-lasting” </p>
<p>In scientific terms, this sentence is too vague. What is the definition of “long lasting”? Ten years? Twenty years? How precise is “suggests”? Better than “maybe” but not quite as good as “probably”?</p>
<p>I DO think young people should get the HPV vaccine but more should be told about it’s effectiveness and whether some kind of booster will be needed.</p>
<p>Because if you read my post, the information coming out now - and as presented by my own OB-GYN, is that HPV related cervical changes are in most cases self limiting. I did test ‘positive’ for one of the bad HPV strains, I had several procedures to correct the problem. These procedures were done within weeks of the test result (they were painful with potential long term effects). A few years ago I asked the OB why she was not doing a pap test that particular cycle. She indicated that the HPV test indicted I was clear of all dangerous strains! How can this be!!! Well, turns out they no undertake aggressive treatment because…the body clears itself!</p>
<p>So now the medical question is…what is the long term immunity level of someone who ‘self corrects’ vs someone who is immunized?</p>
<p>AND, as I stated…this only applies to people who take care of their own health and get regular check ups. So, really take a breath…with a little bit of self education our family’s decision makes sense.</p>
<p>Oh good God, niquii, I can’t quote every dang word of every post you made, including others’ responses. NO manipulation, and your responses continue to reveal that you are incapable of admitting that you entered this entire thread with misconceptions and inadequate knowledge. Learn how to admit you don’t know it all and that you can be wrong. This will serve you in all aspects of your life.</p>
<p>^^^ I think data on the HPV vaccine is still being gathered. My daughter was told she might need a booster and that her pediatrician would discuss it with her when she was preparing to go off to college in a few years.</p>
<p>Back to the subject of infecting others with illnesses which should be in quarantine. There is the oft told story of actress Gene Tierney. She volunteered to work at a celebrity/military function while in early pregnancy. A short while later, she contracted rubella, German measles. As a result, her child was born severely handicapped.</p>
<p>A year or two later, a woman breathlessly introduced herself to Ms. Tierney, saying she was such a fan of the actress that she had snuck out of quarantine with German measles in order to meet Ms. Tierney at the “Canteen” event. The fan was ignorant of the impact of her actions as Ms. Tierney was so shocked that she couldn’t respond to the woman. </p>
<p>It took her many years, but she eventually let go of her anger and chose not to torture herself with it. </p>
<p>Sad story probably repeated numerous times in other scenarios.</p>
<p>Nrdsb4, why do I have to admit I don’t know everything, especially when I never claimed I did? It seems your personal bias is affecting how you interpret comments.</p>
<p>I have learned various things about the influenza such as its growing modes of transportation. Don’t think that just because I disagree about the culpability of a non-vaccinated person, I haven’t learned.</p>
<p>^^^Let me rephrase. You need to be able to admit that respect to this subject, you came into the conversation with a clear lack of understanding, contrary to your numerous protests to the contrary.</p>