<p>I think in retrospect I would have loved an all-female college. I ended up living with all girls through my four years of college. I would not ever have been comfortable rooming with someone who was a man transitioning to a woman or a woman who was transitioning to male. I’m generally a socially liberal person, but honestly I would not have been comfortable. I think I could understand a man transitioning to female on a all-female campus however.</p>
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<p>That is where it falls apart for me and it’s downhill from there. At this point, figure it out before you arrive. If you are transitioning to male you have no business at an all female college IMO. </p>
<p>Let’s get one thing straight here: GENDER is culturally defined and may or may not match your biological sex. SEX is defined by chromosomes, physiology, etc. There are more than two genders and there are even more than two sexes. The two terms should not be conflated. </p>
<p>Personally, I don’t pretend to “get” the whole single-sex college thing so I won’t really comment on my views about this. I do think private colleges should more or less get to set their own admission standards. I’m not really comfortable with asking students to leave just because they “come out” so to speak though. </p>
<p>I like the Mills policy, in particular this part:</p>
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<p>Of course, especially given the age group we are talking about, there are going to be cases–perhaps the majority of trans men and women–where the person is not far enough along in their self-identification to realize that they ought to have this conversation. </p>
<p>I agree that Wellesley <em>could</em> absorb a handful of transmen without losing its character. What pisses me off about what I read in the article is that apparently some expect several thousand women–not to mention the tens of thousands of alumnAE (dammit )–to surrender something precious and unique about their school to salve the feelings of a handful of MEN. If that is not antithetical to the character and spirit of Wellesley, I don’t know what is. (Wellesley has never had a male president. Smith got its FIRST female president in the 70s. This stuff matters to us.)</p>
<p>@romanigypsyeyes I would not ask someone to leave because they became a transman <em>unless</em> they were sufficiently uncomfortable in a women’s college that they demanded that the school pretend it is NOT a women’s college. At that point you have to realize that it isn’t the place for you. As an analogy, I think a student who becomes a pacifist while attending West Point needs to transfer to another school rather than demanding that West Point cease to mention armed conflict. If they are able to remain and find a capacity in which to contribute and serve, fine.</p>
<p>I agree with Consolation’s excellent post, but it’s not always as simple as an XY feeling like an XX or vice versa. My daughter knows a couple of students on campus (XX, presumably) who do not wish to identify as either male or female. They’re quite vocal and angry with the idea of “subscribing to the gender binary” and actively campaign against the idea that there is such a dichotomy. I have to say that I find this troubling.</p>
<p>I know that there are people who are certain they were assigned the wrong gender at birth and I believe they have the right to change, but I don’t think it’s reasonable to ask that everyone do away with the very idea of a male/female world. Most people are one or the other. It’s both compassionate and rational to admit that there are exceptions, but to try to carve a rule out of these exceptions seems wrong to me.</p>
<p>I received the email from the president as well and am on board with @Consolation and @Pizzagirl. I have no issue whatsoever with transmen on campus and believe they deserve the full support of the community, but I think the notion of altering the very mission of the College is not appropriate. If you have chosen a women’s college, which has the express purpose of advancing the education and goals of women, then as @Pizzagirl stated so well: “when you choose to become a man, you give up some of the privileges of womanhood.”</p>
<p>I’m a bit conflicted on this as while I can see why Women’s Colleges serve an important niche within US higher education, I can also see the perspectives of transgender people who feel the erasure when inclusive pronouns aren’t used in college-wide announcements.</p>
<p>One reason why there may be a focus on Women’s colleges in particular is how ironically many early Feminist academics/activists like Mary Daly* were vociferous and open in their discriminatory attitudes towards transgender people. </p>
<p>One relatively recent example of continuing issues with this was the 1991 banning of Nancy Burkholder frin the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival because she wasn’t born female which has continued to generate protests by transgender people and their allies, especially considering this anti-transgender ban is still in force as of this year. </p>
<p>Those are two instances of discriminatory attitudes transgender females and people in general have faced not only from society at large, but also various feminist groups and a reason why they’re not willing to accept being excluded even in pronoun usage. </p>
<p>Incidentally, this very issue between some feminist groups and transgender people is one reason while it may be SAFER THAN THE LARGER SOCIETY/MAINSTREAM COLLEGES…why it may not necessarily be more safe for transitioning to male transgender students to attend colleges like Oberlin and Reed and Bard and Hampshire. I say this as an alum of one of those colleges. </p>
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<li>It comes out loud and clear in her book Gyn/Ecology.<br></li>
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<p>Not sure that’s a great analogy for the following reasons:</p>
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<li><p>West Point is a Federally funded institution as a part of the US armed forces, Wellesley is a private college.</p></li>
<li><p>West Point’s avowed mission is to provide education and training necessary to enable its graduates to serve as military officers for a minimum of 5 years active duty upon graduation unless the cadet is unable to accept a military commission upon graduation due to factors like a serious injury/medical condition incurred during the 4 years. That usually includes the possibility of being in and leading troops in combat situations. Wellesley’s avowed mission is no different than any other respectable/elite college with the exception of a Woman centered environment. </p></li>
<li><p>West Point is tuition free for all cadets on the condition they serve a minimum of 5 years as commissioned officers after graduation unless they are unable to due to factors like a serious injury during the previous 4 years. Also, after a cadet starts his/her junior year, if he/she then decides to transfer or is expelled for academic/behavioral issues, the Federal government has the right to either demand the cadet/cadet’s parents repay the pro-rated costs of a West Point education or serve a minimum of time as an enlisted soldier instead. Decision is up to the government, not the cadet/parents. In short, if a cadet becomes a Pacifist, it’s best if he/she comes to that decision before the first day of his/her 3rd year or he/she’ll incur that repayment/enlisted service obligation. </p></li>
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<p>Wellesley students/families pay tuition and/or are provided some/full FA and while gender change may cause issues within a Women-centered environment, it doesn’t directly impact the universal aspect of Wellesley’s mission, to provide a liberal-arts centered education to its students…including male students who opted to spend a semester there. Also, Wellesley has no legal right to penalize graduates financially or in terms of obligated arduous service if a student opts for a gender change or otherwise perceived as not fulfilling the obligations of “sisterhood” at a Women’s college. In fact, if they tried, it would be rightfully viewed as a discriminatory institutional overreach on their part into the lives of their graduates/new alumnae. </p>
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<p>I could have made a similar argument with several college Profs when I continued to use “he” to denote all humanity rather than suggestions like “he/she”, s(he), or the interesting zie. </p>
<p>However, I felt my Profs made a good convincing point* and continuing to push stubbornly against those corrections would not only been wrong and intellectually dishonest, but also probably result in dozens of galvanized steel garbage cans tossed in my direction from female college classmates and possibly many on this very thread. :D</p>
<p>*Part of it was also how none of those Profs were punitive about those corrections. That’s much more than I can say for many classmates or many others…</p>
<p>“My daughter knows a couple of students on campus (XX, presumably) who do not wish to identify as either male or female. They’re quite vocal and angry with the idea of “subscribing to the gender binary” and actively campaign against the idea that there is such a dichotomy. I have to say that I find this troubling.”</p>
<p>Massmomm, my D encounters that too. Indeed, she took one class where she did have to parrot back that there were (I think) 7 different levels in the gender spectrum between men and women. She read it to me and we were just rolling our eyes at the whole thing. She just parroted back the nonsense and moved on, but it gets a bit thick at times.</p>
<p>Cobrat, I have no idea why you are talking about “W has no legal right to penalize graduates financially or in terms of obligated arduous service if a student opts for a gender change.” No one at any of the women’s colleges is even remotely discussing any such thing. </p>
<p>If someone is demanding the college change their mission, I missed that and don’t agree with it. Just like I wouldn’t support a Christian college being forced to change their mission because a student converts to Judaism </p>
<p>Romani, “controversy” on campus seems to follow when the president of Wellesley (or a similar person in an administrative context) uses the word “women” or “sisterhood” or a similar term. Because heaven forbid someone who has explicitly chosen to repudiate the gender that this college was formed to support, not be included. And yes, there is discussion about changing the mission. </p>
<p>I agree that transmen, may find an equally supportive and perhaps more appropriate student body at one of the many lacs, that are not single sex.
I think there is a need for women’s colleges and while neither of my daughters chose to apply to one, more choices are often a good thing.
Enrolling men, changes the choice.</p>
<p>My daughter did live with a transwoman, although she had begun college as identifiably male.
This was after college, and everyone had their own bedroom.
I don’t have a problem with a college student rooming with someone who identifies as the same sex as their roommate, even though they may not have been identified as such at birth.
However, for everyone’s safety and comfort, I think it should be an opt in situation, and be chosen rather than assigned.</p>
<p>I’m wondering how much of this is also part of the larger trend of some Women’s Colleges being pressured to go Co-ed over the last few decades as happened with some like Vassar, Sarah Lawrence, or Bennington? </p>
<p>It’s not about pressure to go co-ed. That is a different discussion. Transmen are not asking that “regular” men be admitted too. They want the safe world of a space set aside for women, while they wish not to be women. My objection isn’t to grandfathering them in – though I do see, and respect, that objection. It’s to altering W’s identity to a “place for people who are marginalized” vs “a place explicitly for supporting and empowering women.”</p>
<p>Look, if I were to go to Wheaton College which requires a declaration of Christian faith, and I converted to Judaism but stayed because I’d made friends, etc it would be inappropriate to demand that they not use, oh, I don’t know, “soldiers of Christ” or “in Jesus’ name” to address the student body as a whole. </p>
<p>I could not agree with you more, @Consolation. You stated your position well. </p>
<p>I would be perfectly comfortable if a person who feels they are a female, but happens to have male genitalia, applied and was accepted to Wellesley. That makes sense to me. I can relate to the idea a person feels they are the opposite gender and wish to live their lives in a way that feels truthful to them. Those women should be accepted to Wellesley and supported.</p>
<p>But I totally don’t get applying to a women’s college when you consider yourself a male and then complaining when people don’t treat you like a male. </p>
<p>Isn’t the whole societal issue with transgender is the lack of respect for what is going on in the brain? I have bought into the fact that it is not about the genitals, but rather about the brain.</p>
<p>The gray area might be women who decide in college that they are really not female. Personally, I think that if they decide they are male, transferring is the best option and should be encouraged. But if they decide to stay, I don’t think you can really complain about the fact that the all female college (where people often selected it because it is single gender) doesn’t fully embrace the situation.</p>
<p>“But I totally don’t get applying to a women’s college when you consider yourself a male and then complaining when people don’t treat you like a male.”</p>
<p>They aren’t complaining that they aren’t being treated like males. They’re claiming that the mission and language of W – to be a premier women’s college, to create a strong sisterhood of alumnae, to address the students as a whole as women – makes them feel excluded. Excluded from a group they’re choosing to leave. </p>
<p>I also think that transwomen should be encouraged to apply, and it seems to me that it would be a nearly ideal environment in which to thrive while transitioning. </p>
<p>It’s interesting that the few transmen on campus have seemed to get themselves into important leadership and highly visible roles - not sure if that’s the case, or the article just makes it seem that way.</p>
<p>Encouraged to apply or permitted to apply? Those are two different things. </p>
<p>I note that no co-ed school needs to issue a policy letter to enable transwomen or transmen to apply or remain after transition. (Of course, excepting religious schools and the like.). There’s a little bit of deliberate tweaking going on if you are born as a female, thinking about becoming male, and explicitly select a women’s college. It brings more issues versus being at a co-ed college where the identity of the college isn’t predicated on gender. </p>
)–to surrender something precious and unique about their school to salve the feelings of a handful of MEN. If that is not antithetical to the character and spirit of Wellesley, I don’t know what is. (Wellesley has never had a male president. Smith got its FIRST female president in the 70s. This stuff matters to us.)</p>