@collegedad13 “If a male student entered a college class of 35 and he was the only male do you think there would be any impediments to him staying in the class or in the program.”
Or how the guys would like it if all tech offices were all painted pink with girly girl decor.
Additionally, it can be frustrating when male students assume that a woman is only there because she is female. Although, I will admit that I am secretly smiling inside when that happens to D1, because I know how it will end. The men are going to pay dearly for that mistake. lol
“The men are going to pay dearly” Yes, I see you say lol BUT - The best scenario is a collaborative , respectful environment , for both men and women. One of my kids was on an 8 person team, only two were women (HMC and Swarthmore CS grads). They got along very well as a team and had/ have relationships outside the workplace. It’s not all bad out there and there are certainly opportunities for women.
@sevmom “The best scenario is a collaborative, respectful environment, for both men and women.”
There is no question that you are correct.
Students at her school tend to be very cooperative and collaborative, which she loves. Additionally, the vast majority of the men seem to treat the women the same as the men (as they should). Still, she has run across the occasional sexist pig, and for those who are predisposed to it, the fact that she looks more like a stereotype of a sorority girl than a CS major probably emboldens some of them to make foolish assumptions.
As you say, it certainly isn’t all bad. However, the male centric aspects, and lack of women in the workplace do make it challenging to attract and keep women in tech. I think that this finally getting some much needed attention, and it will begin to change for the better, but that will take time.
It also seems that many girls want to do a job that helps people, and may not initially realize that tech jobs do help people (how long can they go without their phone?). Once they understand that, they are often much more open the the possibility.
By the way, I hear that a computer science majored girl who can communicate would be extremely wanted by major law firms, if she takes that path in the future.
@SculptorDad, it is still a possibility. She is going to take the LSAT and either the GMAT or GRE this fall. She has been told that she needs a masters in her field or several years of experience before going to law school for patent law. I think right now she will take the work experience route and see what comes while keeping other doors open.
I am not an expert and this is just what I heard. But it is different from what your daughter was told. So I want you to do more research on it. What I was told are;
You definitely need PhD in Bio, and hopefully PhD in Physics or Chem to do Patent. BUT Usually BA/BS is just enough in CS for Patent. The reason is that unlike hard science, you don't have much competition. Not many CS MS or PhD goes to law schools for various reasons.
Patent is engineering of law. If you want to dig technical documents only, patent might good for you. But if you can communicate effectively, practicing business law has brighter future in the long term, even if you are admitted to patent law already.
CS is the most wanted undergraduate major in both corporate / litigation law in major law firms, as well as banking industry these days, provided that you have a very good GPA from a well known university. Alas, many do not have a very good GPA with that major.
At any rate, having the work experience must be very good at any scenario. It might not help much in law school admission, but it can help greatly in internship and hiring at law firms.
A daughter of a friend is a pharmaceutical patent litigator. She is an associate with a top flight firm. She has a BS in CS Summa Cum Laude from Cooper Union and JD from Harvard. So she does not even have specialized education in bio or chemistry but she was an editor of Harvard Law Record.
I have the sense that there are many paths to patent law. It happens that the only patent lawyer I know was a bio PhDs who got tired of the rat race chasing grants and was lured away into patent law. I believe the law firms may then have paid for them to get caught up on the law end of things. But I may be misremembering details. I think it’s not bad to remind people in this thread that a computer degree can lead to more than just coding. Even if really the question is why can’t we get young girls more interested in coding.
I can only speak from experience with 2 patent law firms, most of the patent lawyers I’m familiar with have a BS and then went straight to their JD. Typically the BS is in something like engineering or CS, but there are others scattered through different majors.
I saw this article today and thought of this thread. Here is a Mudd professor who has experienced some of the things we’ve talked about and is doing something to change the CS environment:
Another excerpt from the article goes back to what we were saying about how an introductory course can really make a difference.
My D (a Scripps student) needed to take a computer science class. She took this one and is now about to start her 3rd Mudd computer science course and really enjoys CS. This is a very different reaction than what she experienced taking the AP course during high school.
These are very popular classes at the 5C’s among students from all sorts of majors.
I want to add an update to my earlier post on this thread. My D is in AP Computer Science Principles as a HS junior. Three or so weeks in and finds it very easy. Not many girls in her class and the boys are “weird”, which was a bit of a turnoff at first. The best news is that now she actively talks about getting a CS minor in college, which I think is a fantastic idea. I don’t necessarily want her to be a programmer but I do want her to know how because it’ll probably be useful in her actual career later on.
One other interesting note. Her AP-CSP class is mostly sophomores because it is the second class in the new “Computer Science” pathway at her public HS (they already had Marketing, Healthcare, Biotechnology, Engineering, Education, etc.). She’s in the Biotech path.
I think that Harvey Mudd is an excellent school for a woman in all STEM fields, and not just CS. I have known several extremely talented women who are Harvey Mudd graduates. Nearby Caltech is a wonderful school, but its environment is not for everyone.
That being said, I am uncomfortable with the line of thinking reflected in the comment about Mudd’s increase in the fraction of women among CS majors: “It has done it by removing obstacles that have typically barred women—including at the faculty level. The school emphasizes teaching over research, hiring and rewarding professors on the basis of their classroom performance, says Maria Klawe, Harvey Mudd’s president since 2006.”
I think this perpetuates a stereotype that women faculty will be drawn to schools that prioritize teaching over research, and that such an environment improves their chances of success. Maybe–but there will not be real equality until women move comfortably into faculty positions at all universities, including those that do emphasize research over teaching, at least in hiring, promotions, and salary.
My daughter’s high school has a club called “Girls Who Code.” It’s specifically geared for girls interested in programming/computer science. I thought it was pretty cool.
