Where can I get in, I am so lost ... though no Ivies since that is unreasonable for me

College Search & Selection
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A degree in Mathematics is useful. So is Physics or CS. Engineering isn’t the only useful degree out there. Also, don’t think that because you have a degree in engineering that you have to be an engineer. Many engineers work in finance, business, or medicine. Companies love employees that are strong in math and are problem solvers.

The key is finding a good school that you can afford. I suspect at least one school (or more) will really want you to attend. After that it’s up to you.

There are still some good need blind schools with a November 15th ED deadline. Colgate, Hamilton, Haverford, Lafayette, and Williams. Some also have an ED2 cycle as well like Northeastern, Lehigh, or Tufts.

Honestly, Lafayette checks a lot of boxes on your list. Can you visit? It’s probably a 2 hour drive from most points in NJ.

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@firstgencollege Upcoming week, you should have school holidays on Thursday and Friday for the Nj teacher convention. Any chance you could get a visit to Lafayette then? For engineering, it’s a more supportive environment and with your strong SAT verbal score , you will also find the humanities , social science courses interesting.

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What about Union in NY? They have engineering. How are they for aid? They would defInitely be interested in OP.

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In your shoes, I’d worry less about ED, and focus more on putting your best foot forward for the right schools. A few days ago, you didn’t even think ivies were an option. Now multiple people have said that they are. Take your time, and apply when you feel you’ve researched the schools mentioned here to know which ones really suit you. If you find that you like a school but have missed their ED deadline, there are other ways to reach out and show your interest. The people working admissions are humans, not robots. They see students with your profile all the time, and know the unique challenges you face navigating this process. Reach out to them, to professors, to folks in the minority/diversity support offices. Let them know they’re your first choice.

This is coming from someone who applied to a top school without even paying the application fee, and without a fee waiver; just explained I couldn’t afford it. Still got in, RD, with full need met. You’ll be fine.

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OP, you sound like a fantastic applicant, and you have a nicely balanced list of reaches, targets, and safeties, with some that offer very generous need-based aid and some that offer nice merit money. Best of luck to you!

@Jon234 - Thanks for the shout-out. As much as I love Williams, I am not sure it would be the best fit for OP, who is seriously considering engineering and wants a job straight out of college—which means that majoring in a science and then going to Engineering grad school, or doing one of the more-than-four-years combined programs that Williams offers in conjunction with other colleges— won’t match the OP’s needs. And the OP would need to do one of those two things at Williams.

Swarthmore and Lafayette, on OP’s list, combine the small liberal arts college allure with the option of an engineering major. OP also has a number of larger schools on the list, as well as more tech focused schools, so OP can start thinking about which type of environment is most appealing.

Good luck!

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@NewTwinMom , times have changed since you were a college student. Things are more competitive than ever. These highly selective colleges with great FA have plenty of stellar applicants chasing FA. Even a public U can easily cost over $100k for a degree, and a school like Lafayette is probably going to run close the $280k. I don’t think hoping that “it will work out fine” is a good strategy.

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@Lindagaf I didn’t tell him to just hope. The OP doesn’t seem to be the kind to just sit back and hope, and no one in their right mind would give that advice to an applicant. But if things are more competitive than ever, then it’s all the more reason for him to put his best foot forward. Rushing in a half-baked application just to make the ED deadline won’t help either. And even worse, making a commitment to a college before he’s had the chance to fully research it doesn’t seem like a good strategy for success at said college either. Ultimately, it’s not just about getting in.

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Brief descriptions (@firstgencollege, for more details and more nuance, get your hands on a FIske guide - your school library should have one, or perhaps your town’s?)

In terms of vibe, I’d say Swarthmore is more famous than Lafayette. It’s known to be intensely intellectual, some would say “a grind”, with students proud to compete for “heaviest workload” in the country. It’s also known to be very liberal and political.

Lafayette is a bit more mellow and preprofessional, politically more moderate than Swarthmore, but prestigious and well-known (including by prep schools). While not as hardcore intense as Swarthmore it’s not a “work hard/play hard” school and Greek life isn’t as prevalent as at Lehigh. It’s more liberal than Lehigh but less activist than Swarthmore.
Lafayette and Lehigh have a tremendous rivalry. :slight_smile:

Union is work hard/play hard too (it’s the birthplace of the fraternity movement) and well-known for its Engineering+Liberal Arts environment. Being in Upstate New York, it’s a bit father away than any of the above. It’s moving away from financial aid for lower income students; its new policy favors families with income 100K to 250K with guaranteed merit aid. It does package loans. For an EFC0 family, costs would range from $2,500 to $9,700.

BTW, feel free to explore other colleges from the Fiske guide, too.
Keep in mind the great advantage you’ll have with ED. Don’t feel like you’re “settling” - research the schools. Use your time wisely. Surely among all the top schools there’s got to be one that you feel “gets you”.

If you are admitted to a college your family has not “heard of”, you’ll have to explain that college to them.
In reality, most people have only heard of a few colleges: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT; colleges with strong football and/or basketball teams; whatever’s nearby. There are 3,700 colleges in the country and lack of familiarity means nothing about the college’s quality.
It’s impossible to know all of them and anyway why would you?

On the other hand, “rich people”, people on the Mainline, people who send their kids to boarding schools for 50K a year, know about these colleges (like Lafayette, Swarthmore, Bates, Colgate, Hamilton, Union, and of course Williams).
To give you an example of how some knowledge is widely known in some circles and completely ignored in others:
Williams is an official “Little Ivy” yet many people have never heard of it. At the same time, in many circles “in the know” it’s got the same aura as Harvard. People with power leverage it to access knowledge such as this. The internet and collegeconfidential level the playing field. :smiley:
Some of these colleges are called “Hidden Gems” (although they’re mostly “hidden” if you attend a public school :stuck_out_tongue: )
Basically, think of it as talking basketball with a football fan. Or discussing cricket with a baseball fan. Just because they’re never heard of your team doesn’t mean it’s not ranked at the top nor does it mean it’s not “well-known”.
If they’re really interested and you’re smart, you’ll find a way to make them understand that your team is a superior team.

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i thought about Union (wouldn’t take long to run the NPC) and also Trinity.

@TheGreyKing it had been suggested the OP was open to physics and or CS and not locked into Engineering.
I mentioned Williams because I know a first gen kid with lower stats recently admitted with a phenomenal financial aid package, only bettered by two Ivies.

Whatever you do, good luck OP.

150

OP, you have got lots of good info and genuine support here.

As many have told you, in your situation, an excellent student of high financial need, but not in Quest Bridge college matching program, ED to a meeting-full-financial-need school is your best chance to help you succeed. However, you do need to do your homework to pick the one that fits you best, financially, academically, and socially. You can do this efficiently through the school websites and the help of the posters here.

Since you seem to prefer engineering, I would recommend Swarthmore ED 1 if you think it’s a good fit for you. You can also consider ED 2 Lafayette or Lehigh or Tufts (depending on fit). Do Swarthmore NPC. In our family’s experience, its FA is very generous, similar to Princeton’s. Swarthmore is one of the few no-loan schools meeting full financial need, very rigorous in academics and very devoted to helping first generation and low SES students. For class 2023, 22 percent are the first generation in their family to attend college, and 20 percent receive Pell Grants. Check here https://www.swarthmore.edu/admissions-aid/apply-to-swarthmore to see if it is a good fit for you. If you apply, the info there can help you write the “Why Swarthmore” supplement essay (only 250 words in the last few years). They are very straightforward about the students they are looking for.

Lafayette’s career center is outstanding and its engineering programs also offer a very personal and supportive learning environment. A small college with many supportive programs and resources will benefit students like you more than the more famous, bigger universities, IMO.

As some have suggested, keep an open attitude in choosing your major and future career. I know many former engineering or math or other majors are actually doing CS jobs nowadays. Very few engineering graduates from Ivy schools become engineers. They may go to consulting or academics or Wall Street. If your goal is to be an engineer, the most important thing is to learn well and have good internships, not the name of the school. It’s very important to consider where you can get the best support (academic and social) in college.

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Given the student’s academic preparation , which is no fault of his own,- non-AP Calculus , algebra based physics senior year - he may be more aligned to Lafayette than Swarthmore. I do not believe he has had the chance to visit these colleges and am not sure he has the resources to do so (it’s more about time and transport ). I agree with the post from @aquapt where the prep part is outlined in detail.

It is unfortunate that a very bright student has limited access to advanced courses in high school . In NJ, students like OP would have more access to advanced courses only at county magnet schools, for which you have to apply in 8th grade over a narrow window. Add to it the indifferent school staff with high turnover, students like OP fall through the cracks.

For STEM majors, it’s not just about getting in and getting money from a prestigious institution. It’s about the probability of staying in the program and having supports to do so. Even with support , the student will still be in the same classes later on with those with much more rigorous prep. Swat attracts a lot of uber-prepared students. A Swarthmore math faculty member that I met at a conference remarked to me that she saw a huge gap in preparation and was unsure how it could be filled in. I am sure it will be somewhat similar at Lafayette as well, but it may be more manageable.

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I seriously doubt that with the time OP has right now that anything he writes will be half baked.

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Ok, so Swarthmore and Lafayette are the colleges I want to apply to. Swarthmore I hope to apply ED, Lafayette ED II. Swarthmore because it seems more driven and it seems much more academic which I would love. Also, the emails and mail I have gotten from them make the college seem friendly (I know its only to make you apply and like it, but still), NPC gave me 2.2K, for Lafayette 4.021K. Lafayette seems more like a home that is why ED II.

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I tend to agree with @NewTwinMom

Though i am not as optimistic that “everything will be fine”, this sudden rush to ED is truly a Hail Mary attempt. Without QB or other directed program, it’s tough for get into highly selective schools with issues like rigor, a hastily put together app etc. I think OP would be better served putting concerted effort in working on RD applications. Perhaps request GC to include more info on challenges have been faced with SES , and other issues that are likely not in the LOR. Also targeting schools like UChicago, Duke that actively seek students like this and including letter to AO relating some circumstances including the difficulties in doing this app on own and just finding out about a number of opportunities.

Also , reading up on these colleges, thesis forum is a rich source of info. And other websites that give a narrative account of life ag these schools.

Most important of all is getting a list of affordable safety options. Highly selective school acceptance and getting sufficient funds to make it happen are often long shots. Get those sure things into the basket.

Also, consider re doing the whole thing through QuestBridge next year if results not doable or even satisfactory if doable.

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With respect @cptofthehouse , this poster’s primary concern is affordability. No one here is going to pay his tuition. He has already applied to a number of safety schools.

For Swat, he needs a 250 word supplement. He has nearly two weeks to write one and is already on their radar. Swat is arguably the best LAC in the country. Waiting to apply RD, frankly, is a bad idea, given his stats and needs. And if he doesn’t get in, he can of course apply RD to a lot of colleges.

If he gets no results that he is happy with or that are affordable, he can regroup and try with QB next year if he wants to wait.

@firstgencollege , I think you are making good choices with Swat ED and Lafayette ED2.

As an aside, when I visited Swat with my D, I declared it would have been my dream school, had I even known it existed back then. Wonderful school. Be sure to learn a little something about their Quaker roots.

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Good luck. Don’t second guess yourself. I think this is a good approach for ED.

Let us know how you get on. There’s a lot of people pulling for you.

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That’s a great plan, @firstgencollege - rooting for you! Swarthmore isn’t a slam-dunk - they only accepted 26% of ED apps last year - but that’s nearly triple their overall acceptance rate. Your stats are in the ballpark and you’re a good writer and likely have strong recommendations… so give it your best shot, and you still have Lafayette EDII as a terrific Plan B.

You might want to PM @Kelvin82 , a former CC poster (also EFC0 and looking to optimize financial aid) who started at Swarthmore in Fall '18 She posted a thread for Swat questions last year ( http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/swarthmore-college/2104893-ask-a-swattie-anything-p1.html ) but not sure if she’s still checking that thread or not. But she might be able to help you bring your “Why Swarthmore” short-essay answer into focus. (I’d be happy to look at anything you’d like to send me, also.)

@cptofthehouse , I don’t get the sense that getting this ED app in is too rushed. OP has already applied to multiple in-state publics and at least one Common App school, so he’s done a lot of work on his app already; 10 days to polish a supplement should be fine. The way he has engaged with the many contributors to this thread has shown very strong written communication skills; I think he can get an ED app into good shape.

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@firstgenstudent It is so exciting to read how everything is falling into place for you. When you go to look at Lafayette, try to see Lehigh as well. They are only 15 miles away from each other, and though they are arch rivals, in reality they appeal to similar students. Lehigh is a bit bigger, and has a larger endowment with more resources for financial aid. Lehigh is also adding a health college and expanding the size of the incoming classes, so it may be a bit easier to get in there. I was a first gen student at Lehigh years ago - I turned down a full ride at Rutgers / Douglas College to go to Lehigh. Now the financial aid for Pell Grant students is even more generous - you will not have to take out loans. You could apply in January for RD. Good luck and keep us updated! Feel free to DM me as well.

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I admit I only scrolled through the comments and didn’t read super carefully, but did you take the PSAT? Is it possible you could be a National Hispanic Recognition Scholarship recipient? My daughter was offered a full tuition scholarship to Fordham University, and other schools might give more. It is worth checking.

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Swat values diversity and takes actions to improve the gaps among the students of different backgrounds. If there is any concern about OP’s high school preparation for the rigor of Swarthmore courses, please check its Summer Scholars Program https://www.swarthmore.edu/summer-scholars-program, also the Math 15SP https://www.swarthmore.edu/mathematics-statistics/math-15sp. Their freshman seminars (with different topics to choose from) help all students refine their reading and writing skills to be ready for future courses. These are some of the examples of learning support/resources Swarthmore offers, especially valuable for first generation students or students from disadvantaged backgrounds. BTW, all the courses in the first semester are Pass/No-Pass to help all freshmen adapt to college learning. I think anyone who is willing to work hard and seek help can learn well at Swarthmore. It’s important to have the right attitude and proper confidence.

Swarthmore also seems to be a little bit more social-economic diverse than its peer LACs, maybe except Pomona, which can help students like OP transit to college life more easily. Most students live on campus all 4 years and students don’t need to spend money on campus. All necessities are included by student fees. If you go to Philly for school related activities, school will reimburse the transportation cost.

As for political activism, those who are into it always have louder voices that tend to mislead the general public to think that most students there are like that. On a diverse campus, one can always finds some like-minded as well as very different people.

OP, I suggest you let those who write recommendations for you read what kind of students Swat looking for and, hopefully, they can tailor their letters to the criteria. For the “Why Swarthmore” essay, it’s easy to write 250 words but it’s very challenging to present yourself well in such a concise way. Pick 1-3 points to write. Let the other parts of your application to present more of you. (You may use of the optional writing on Common Application to present your family background.) You may focus on your genuine interest in learning and what you have can fit into Swat’s mission (https://www.swarthmore.edu/assessment/college-mission-goals-and-planning). Also doing your homework on the Lang Center mission (https://www.swarthmore.edu/lang-center/about-lang-center) may help you write an effective essay.

If you decide to ED, the ED agreement must be signed by you, your counselor, and your parent. Be sure to have good communication with them. You should have done FAFSA. Have you done CSS Profile? If not, budget your time to finish it (including uploading IDOC documents) a few days before the deadline. Doing the CSS is more time-consuming than doing FAFSA, especially for the first time. It takes time for College Board to process it and make it available to the school requesting it.

ED 1 is definitely worth your consideration. Whether to do ED 2 can be considered later, since you will need to do all the RD applications with ED 2. Plan your time well for all applications.

Best wishes for OP! We all cheer for you no matter what you decide to do.