<p>You ask whether matriculation data tells you much. It does about the top schools. When you get 8% going to ivies at a boarding school that's second tier, I would bet the majority are recruited athletes and legacies. Keep in mind that there are a lot of rich kids at these schools, more rich kids than at AESD, and many are very connected.</p>
<p>I found that the weaker the school, the less willing the admin was to give matriculaion date. Top schools (Groton, Deerfield, St. Paul's) will list matriculations on the web site. </p>
<p>Lesser schools will post something like, "In the past 5 years." </p>
<ul>
<li>This allows the schools to post the top schools to which only a student or two are admitted every year. Thus, Brown, Harvard, Wesleyan, Dartmouth and Amherst could all appear on the list b/c of one exceptional student (and not at all reflcetive of the shc's placement record overall).<br></li>
</ul>
<p>-This also allows the school to avoid posting the really lousy schools to which students are admitted and ultimately enroll.</p>
<p>Another important questions: How many students opt for 13th year prgms instead of college? (often a sign that, after 4 yrs, students weren't sufficiently prepared for college)</p>
<p>Almost every school gets someone into the Ivys!</p>
<p>shmomsstef - - sent you a PM</p>
<p>thanks for the PM -- I got it!</p>
<p>when I am looking at the matriculation data, what I had been looking for was at least 2 kids (different kids) admitted into an ivy for each year, plus about 20- 30% of the kids on the list attending top 50 schools. I know that my criteria is somewhat different than many kids posting here -- but for this son, I think it would work well. </p>
<p>He really wants to shine and be "top dog" at the school -- but still have a chance at a top school. Right now, his colleges of choice (remember he is 13) are Oberlin and Colorado College. I still don't know what direction he will take, but with his desire to be at the top of the class I think that he would pick a school other than HYPSM -- probably a LAC.</p>
<p>Does that criteria sound reasonable? I am not worried about the 2nd tier status -- as great as Andover, Exeter, Choate, St. Pauls, etc look -- they really aren't the best choice for this son, whether he got in or not.</p>
<p>I have discarded a number of schools because the matriculation data didn't list any top schools -- made me wonder why you would spend all that money and send a kid to boarding school if the top students can barely make it into schools ranked around the 80's. Not that I am so much into rankings -- fit is more important -- but what are the odds that every kid at a boarding school for five years is best fit for those lower ranked schools.</p>
<p>collegekid -- I know what you mean and it is hard to determine how many were legacy/athletic recruit. It is so hard to evaluate both my son and the schools -- I just have to hope it all works out!</p>
<p>Steph, I'm afraid it's not a big mystery to figure out why people spend so much to send kids to second tier boarding schools. For many, the kid needs a "new start". Schools like NMH are full of kids coming out of therapeutic schools and who have had trouble at local schools. Some are pretty smart, but they are kids the top schools won't touch. Then you get large numbers of expat kids who aren't the smartest but who have big bucks. Internationals who think any American school will help get them into an ivy and kids who's families want them gone are also evident.</p>
<p>I do think Conserve sounds different. They visited my cousins school in ND. We don't know what to make of them.</p>
<p>Steph, why is your son applying to BS? My cousin just emailed me about her visit to Conserve and she was not impressed. Some of these second tier schools aren't much better than a decent public and you have a much better chance going to a top college from your public. I'm assuming he excells in his current peer community.</p>
<p>Just going to throw this out there: but I go to a boarding school that regularly sends a hefty portion of its graduating class to Ivy League institutions, and I know that just because a school has a habit of sending kids to Princeton, Harvard, Yale, etc. does not mean that going to this school will increase a child's potential to attend these colleges. In a school where it is less usual (but not rare) for students to achieve that acceptance, your child would most likely have a better chance of being at the top of his class or standing out, whereas in highly competitive schools, standing out is a struggle. That might just be the perception of college admissions at my school, but I thought it might be worthwhile to say. I hope the process goes well for you!</p>
<p>Hsmomstef-I think that you should visit the schools that your son is interested in attending, regardless of what the financial aid statistic shows on boardingschoolreview.com. I can tell you from first hand experience, my daughter received 85% ($32K) in financial aid from a school with a very small endowment. Boardingschoolreview's information shows this school's average FA grant was $15K. And, she didn't have a hook such as an athlete, legacy, or spectacular SSAT scores. She's just an all around good kid, who presents herself well and the admin committee liked her. (I think I read a post once from goaliedad saying that being personable/nice in an interview goes a long way....the interviewer is thinking "do I want my daughter to be friends with her?" I found his comments to be very true.) </p>
<p>I think that it is extremely important to visit each school--it is amazing how quickly you can get a feel for each place (within a couple of hours) as to whether you want your child to attend this school. Especially if you are looking for financial aid, it really helps to meet face-to-face with the financial aid director. I am sure that part of the reason that we received such a large package was because of my conversation with the director. I was able to explain my financial situation (I am a widow with 4 children.) My daughter applied to 4 schools, accepted to 4, offered FA at 3. </p>
<p>The schools that she applied to are not the ones that are typically mentioned on this board. However, they are all very good east coast schools, perfect for her personality. We are not looking to attend an Ivy college, (although the matriculation data for the school that she choose did have graduates attending all 8 Ivies. </p>
<p>I have very strong feelings about the Ivy schools for undergraduates-(my brothers went to Princeton, Harvard, Brown, my sister went to Dartmouth, whereas I went to Santa Clara Univ in CA.) I think for the first 2 years of my siblings college years, the majority of their classes were taught by teacher assistants and the classes were quite large. Plus, they were so stressed out by the "competition", I am not sure that they really enjoyed college. Whereas, I had a blast in school--learned a lot, but had so much fun. I graduated with a business degree and felt that I was just as prepared as my siblings to enter the adult working world. </p>
<p>And collegekid100, I think you have a huge chip on your shoulder regarding people with money. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>sspixie & jennycraig -- thanks! Even though the money will be really tight, I can see that it is important to visit a school. I guess we won't try and overevaluate the FA but work on fit and applying to multiple schools. I think he would prefer to attend a school where he is amoung the "best and brightest" over the more competitive top ten schools. </p>
<p>Collegekid -- my son wants to attend BS because he is tired of overcrowded classes where he isn't allowed to ask a question, much less discuss anything, he is tired of trying to avoid the pre-gang members who "pile on" him anytime he is outside of the three armed security guards sight, he wants the opportunity to learn at a higher level -- which is hard to do with such overworked teachers, and he is looking for a peer group that is also interested in academics -- most of his current classmates struggle to do well in class and are more interested in becoming members of a rock band than graduating high school.</p>
<p>The public school he would attend is an IB school -- with the program as part of the larger school. They do send a number of kids to ivies and top schools, but the classes are still overcrowded and the competition at the top is cutthroat. He would not be able to participate in sports, debate, drama, etc -- but he would have to pick. It has to do with the school budget (very limited) and the desire for the school to allow everyone to shine -- therefore, kids who do not do as well academically are generally given a tip for other activities such as drama and sports. Sounds silly -- but that is how they work. The high school struggles with drugs and alcohol and weapons issues and the IB kids are very isolated. Classes are very limited with few choices -- the only choice they would have in curriculum is whether to do French or Spanish. for all other IB classes, they only have one choice.</p>
<p>I honestly think he will be able to get into the schools he is interested in no matter where he attends high school -- I just think that a better high school experience will help him more overall.</p>
<p>Do you know why your cousin wasn't impressed by Conserve? Anything you can share would be helpful -- from what I can tell, the faculty and facilities are worlds above what he would get from his local public. He would rather attend a school that has a higher percentage of minority students but they seem to be working on it.</p>
<p>Well Jenny, my chip is about rich kids at boarding schools who do nothing and buy the seats at the top schools. It is unfair. I got mine by being an athlete which some also consider unfair, so be it. I just think the kids here should know the truth earlier than I did. I would have been screwed if I weren't recruited. Just look at the progression in the posts by someone like Stef. Her list has changed dramatically as she has gotten facts. </p>
<p>OK steph, I get why she he wants to go.</p>
<p>Cousin felt Conserve did not have the feel of an established school. She thought there was over emphesis on "green" things and not a lot of class choice. Thought the student body was noticably less smart and engaged. She hated the middle of nowhere location. This is someone who loves Andover though. </p>
<p>Your info on TAs, at Dartmouth is totally eroneous. It would be impossible to majority of TAs there. It's also highly ulikely at Brown. Don't know about your sibs other fantastic schools!! While I'm always suspicious of firsts posts, I will look forward to your future ones. So welcome back!</p>
<p>collegekid -- you are correct, the more info the better the decision. That doesn't mean that I believe everything that I read or take all the advice -- but I certainly do take it into consideration. </p>
<p>Jenny -- please keep posting! some posters can be a little rough, but most of us are very friendly!</p>
<p>collegekid -- thanks for the info on conserve.</p>
<p>The class choice is better than what he would have available -- and he seemed overwhelmed with choices at the big boarding schools. He didn't seem intrigued by the class choices but thought he would just have a hard time choosing. I personally like a lot of choice -- but this kid is different than I am.</p>
<p>He loves the emphasis on "green things" and that is what drew him to the school -- I can definitely see that if a student isn't really into the whole sustainablity movement that the school would not be a good fit. The middle of nowhere place might be an issue at some point, but i don't think it is a huge deal with this kid -- he spends his free time either at home, hanging out with friends or hiking. I think that Conserve might be a good fit for him -- it is definitely not a school for everyone, though!</p>
<p>check this out
<a href="http://www.bigtenschool.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.bigtenschool.com/</a></p>
<p>tyrus -- I checked it out when it was recommended earlier -- but all I find is a forum for top schools with no activity or postings, so it seems pretty useless to me.</p>
<p>It just started 10 days ago, welcome to join the forum!
hsmomstef-- Any suggestion for the forum?</p>
<p>Collegekid--I don't know why you say that it is impossible for my sister to have classes with TAs while at Dartmouth. I know that it was quite a while ago (20+ years!) but I remember having a discussion with my family about so many of my brothers and sister's classes having TA's whereas all of my classes were taught by professors.</p>
<p>Anyway, as I said in my previous post, that is just my personal bias regarding the Ivies--I think that there is a lot to be said for having fun in college--(and in boarding school :-) besides just academics. Especially when you never know if life is going to throw you a curve ball, as tragedy can strike at any time. So, for me and what I hope for my kids, is that they live life to the fullest and enjoy themselves--work hard, but still have FUN!</p>
<p>Regarding your comment on "rich kids who do nothing and buy their seats at the top schools...I got mine by being an athlete" you are right--some people will think both situations are wrong. Life doesn't have to be fair--it certainly isn't always fair in the work force either. But, if one focuses on what they put into a class, project, job, etc... instead of focusing on what they aren't receiving compared to others, I think that they will be a lot happier and more good things will come their way. You reap what you sow.</p>
<p>Collegekid: "Schools like NMH are full of kids coming out of therapeutic schools and who have had trouble at local schools."</p>
<p>And you get this info where? Are you implying that all the "second tier" schools are like that? Not everyone WANTS to go to AEDS..... even if they are qualified. For my son, it has NOTHING to do with how qualified he is, it has to do with the fit. We know that Exeter and Andover are NOT good matches for him, for a variety of reasons. </p>
<p>And for the record, NMH is **not **full of kids coming out of therapeutic schools, and yes, this is accurate, first hand information.</p>
<p>The problem Jenny, parents conversing with you and all, is that Dartmouth had few TAs 20 years ago and few today. I will repeat, it is impossible to have a majority of TAs there! So speak of what you know.</p>
<p>Linda S, why don't you ask NMH if they work closely with consultants handling kids going from therapy to mainstream schools? They do. They also take kids year round as do many second tier schools. I kid I know who is bright but a total mess spent a term there after therapeutic school in the past few years. Then he went back to therapy school which he still needed.</p>
<p>Collegekid, I just spoke with my sister. She minored in mathematics at Dartmouth and she positively remembers that for least for some of her math classes, there were TA's teaching the class. So, I am "speaking about something that I know". </p>
<p>I will again state--this is my personal opinion, based on the fact that 4 of my siblings attended Ivy league schools and this was their experience. My father received an MBA from Harvard and my mother got her Masters at Columbia. My uncle was in George Bush, Sr. Yale class. Practically my entire extended family has attended an Ivy league school (for either undergrad or graduate.) I was the rebel who went across the country to a small Jesuit school in Santa Clara, CA. </p>
<p>I don't know why you continue harping on this. My only point in stating *my own opinion *on Ivy league schools to hsmomstef is because she was looking at matriculation data from schools as a way to measure the quality of the school. I wanted her to know that there are other factors to consider--and there are many, many good colleges out there, besides the Ivies.</p>