<p>Hey catmom2, I live about three hours south of U of Ill. I have a couple friends who are there for education/accounting/etc. I’ve been on campus a number of times, and last winter I went up to talk to a man about their art education major, I believe he held some type of position with the undergrad art admissions.
I think Illinois’ campus is crazy amazing. The quad is a huge plain of grass surrounded by a lot of academic buildings, and the social life it holds is pretty sweet. Any nice day there are always people out reading, talking, playing catch. If I remember correctly, the fine arts building is still pretty close to the main campus, but off to the side, near the stadium.
About the quality of the department, I’m not too sure. When I visited there was a small show up with medium sized works. I think a mixture of drawing and painting. Coming from MICA, the work seemed to be of the same quality as I’d see on campus, but didn’t have as strong of a presence or concept to it. I was sort of turned off by the guy I talked to. Speaking about the field of art ed. he basically told me with a degree there it wouldn’t be too hard to find a job, because “it’s U of Illinois”. Sure your school should matter, but work should reign in my eyes. I do believe all undergrads get a pretty nice sized studio though. If I’m not mistaken, the department chair got her degree from Illinois as well. I kind of wish they would have brought in someone from somewhere else though. I believe she was suppose to meet with me when I visited, but she was busy, so I really don’t know much about her.
Uhhhh, anything else?</p>
<p>thanks man you the best</p>
<p>Hey catmom-</p>
<p>You are mistaken about PAFA, they have BFA.</p>
<p>catmom - if you visit Yale or Columbia/Barnard (or any other place with throngs of people visiting) check and double check ahead of time about getting a tour of the art studios. Columbia has it on their web site (somewhere) and only does them once a day, one or two days a week. Not sure about Yale, but when we showed up, they said we had to talk to some guy on a Tuesday, and they weren’t giving any tours that month anyway. They let us walk around, but there was almost nothing to see. It seemed strangely deserted.</p>
<p>What about William and Mary in VA? new art building and a heavier emphasis on art history and curator(?) studies. great school, but it is in the South. One of the kids who won a scholastic medal from S’s high school is going there precisely because she is academic/artsy and is considering art history as a major.</p>
<p>Wow. Thanks to all of you. We had a great visit to WUSTL, felt okay about U. Illinois, but not blown away, so thanks to Brianmo2 for your insights. Loved SAIC, but felt it a bit overwhelmingly conceptual for where she is in her state of mind… she thought an MFA would be great at SAIC. </p>
<p>William and Mary is a place I have always adored… its in the South, but its not THE South… Viriginia is civilization. SOUTH is Memphis, Alabama, Mississippi, etc! And I’m VERY grateful for the PAFA info. Penn is not very clear about its affiliation with PAFA, except in their evening/ adult program, which is not the same as the traditional student undergrad program, so we’ll have to check into that when we’re in Philly in a couple of weeks. </p>
<p>You guys are FABULOUS. So helpful. This is quite daunting, and to complicate things, she’s getting unsolicited applications from Yale and Harvard. I know they just want kids to apply; don’t really care if they get in or not, so its hard to know whether the app. fees and essay writing trauma are worth it! </p>
<p>The list continues to grow…</p>
<p>Hi
One of the schools I don’t see mentioned often is Cleveland Institute of Art. My daughter visited there in the Spring. She is interested in illustration, and more specifically in the CIA biomedical illustration major. Kids that are accepted into that program take academic/science courses through Case Western.<br>
My kid will be going to MICA in the Fall (well we’re keeping our fingers crossed about that, she’s accepted but she’s supposed to prove to us that she’s grown up enough to handle it over the summer).<br>
She was a National Merit Commended student and got very nice scholarship offers from CIA, MICA, Syracuse, Pratt, Parsons, LCAD, and SUNY Purchase. Initially she really loved RISD and was accepted there, but they didn’t offer any merit aid so it was too expensive for us to consider.<br>
Syracuse might be a good fit for your daughter since it is a “regular” university.
Good luck!</p>
<p>Glutenmom, my daughter just finished her first year at CIA. It was her top choice school (above RISD and RIT) because of the glassblowing program. It is possible (although not easy in the first year because of the long foundation-year classes) to take classes at Case. I know that kids at CIM, next door, often do a dual enrollment and graduate with two degrees in 5 years, so it might be possible to get both a BFA and a BA or BS in another subject. Unlike some consortium programs, the campuses really are right next to each other, sharing a cafeteria and dorms. The foundation year at CIA was the toughest thing my daughter ever did. She lucked out by getting some very excellent and demanding teachers. There are some annoying aspects of the school (the dorms are quite shabby!) but the positive, for us, far outweighs the negative.</p>
<p>catmom, A little late coming to this thread. My son wanted a small or medium sized college/university where he could do both studio art and history of art, with a good English department. His focus was on drawing and painting, but later he took up print making.</p>
<p>He wanted a good museum on or near campus. He was open to both rural and urban, but less enthusiastic about suburban.</p>
<p>His list: Williams, Wesleyan, Hamilton, Kenyon, Skidmore, Conn College, Brown, Yale
For a female, I’d add Smith.
Williams was his first choice with Wesleyan a close second.</p>
<p>He graduated from Williams with a dual degree in art studio/history and is now in architecture school. </p>
<p>He LOVED Williams and would do it again in a heartbeat. Excellent well funded departments. Great facilities. Great career and graduate school counseling. Accessible talented faculty who work in many media. Wonderful smart, energetic kids.</p>
<p>Wherever your daughter ends up applying, she should definitely submit an art portfolio as part of her admissions package.</p>
<p>catmom, My daughter graduated Wesleyan in 2009 with a degree in studio arts and had a top-notch education academically and artistically. I would encourage your daughter to visit the school and the art department this fall when all is in session. The department is small with a great opportunities for mentorship, exchange with other students and highly personalized guidance by professors. All of the studio art majors do a thesis exhibition and there are department grants available for summer study. At the time of her application to college, she was unclear if she wanted to attend a specialized art school or a liberal arts college/university with a strong art department yet we encouraged the LAC route to encourage interdisciplinary study and strong academics which many art schools lack. At the time of application, her other top choices were WUSTL, RISD/Brown and Vassar.</p>
<p>studiomom!! longtime no see!!
what’s your D up to now? update update!!
not that I can ever be the Wes parent anymore but by any chance,
the queen of painting will be retiring or de-throned soon?
everyone in LACs painting circle I talked knew about her reign.
OP mom, I would love it if your D can do Wes, just prepare in case she could not take up painting concentration if the queen lives and doesn’t approve her style.</p>
<p>One suggestion I’d make to you as you look into schools is to understand how important academics and talent come into play for admissions.</p>
<p>For example, will the school first accept student academically and then consider their art portfolio for admission into a specific art track?..or is art considered for admission initially along with academics?</p>
<p>I say this because I am guessing your D’s SAT scores put her at about 1220 or 1230 out of 1600 (if her math is 510ish and her reading in the low 700’s.) These scores are fine for art schools that will place an emphasis on talent/portfolio and for universities that consider academics and talent as part of the initial acceptance (sometimes with a 50-50 weight). But I would be concerned with those SAT scores for schools like Barnard, Wesleyan, Yale, Brown and U of Penn who are going to make their decision based on academics with very limited consideration of talent. Even if her grades are good, her SAT’s may hold her back.</p>
<p>As my D starts this process, I am trying to sort out what goes into the decision-making process so that her list is realistic in regards to D’s talent and academics.</p>
<p>For example, assuming my D has a good portfolio and an 89 average and 1300 SAT (these are guesses–for now), she may have an easier time getting into NYU (who considers portfolio and academics equally) than a school like SUNY New Paltz where talent is not even looked at until you get accepted academically.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>Good point, usk^
yet, being self appointed Wes pusher to smart’n cool kids, if your D gotten or retake and hit 2000 mark, I say go for it. there are many more pieces in the puzzle (did you read “The Gatekeepers” ? <a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Gatekeepers-Admissions-Process-Premier-College/dp/0142003085/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278318900&sr=1-2[/url]”>http://www.amazon.com/Gatekeepers-Admissions-Process-Premier-College/dp/0142003085/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1278318900&sr=1-2</a>)
I saw lopsided kids gotten in beating odds sometimes as late as in the end of May, you never know.
Maybe not Barnard Yale but Wes (yes! ) would look at the kid as a whole package. Oh, but better done the math up to precalc and done rather well.
as studiomom said, please do visit and feel. Either you hate it or, warning!!! you are hooked.</p>
<p>PS
with 650 each, I bet you are in NewPaltz by judging from the way our info session went, no worry.</p>
<p>koolfish, I would say the value of “talent” in admissions depends on the school. For large universities and some of the mid-sized privates, forget about it. </p>
<p>But many small LACs really do view applicants holistically and what I call subjectives – talent, demographics, extracurriculars, recommendations – can offset weakness in statistics like grades, scores and rank.</p>
<p>Again, the weighting of a specific talent can depend on the individual school. All schools have orchestras, theaters and art departments, but some recruit more heavily into those areas. Williams and Wesleyan put a lot more focus on artist/musicians/actors than some of the equally selective LACs like Amherst or Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Especially at small schools it helps to fill more than one category – e.g., an artist from an under-represented demographic. This applies even if the student doesn’t intend to major in art (or music or theater).</p>
<p>I don’t mean to disregard the importance of grades and rank at the more selective and academically focused schools. The student still needs to be within the band; however, I believe that you’ll see some tolerance for lopsided (or even low) scores if s/he has a demonstrated talent and it is well presented in his/her application.</p>
<p>now momrath!!
this is an occasion to be celebrated!! now your DS outa Williams, is he growing hair long?
when we visited, nice foundation art prof shown arch room around and said, kids never intended to do arch find it fascinating after Williams and go do grad study elsewhere. did he meant your kid?
Williams was our puppy love. awww the memory… before reality hit rock hard.
Good luck wherever he is and keep posting please.</p>
<p>B&D, No my son is still a short-haired, buttoned down guy. It’s the inside of his head that’s unconventional. He’s actually wanted to be an architect as long as he could hold a pencil. Architects are notorious for being late bloomers with diverse interests – Williams was perfect for him.</p>
<p>It’s a good thing that you didn’t sign him off to 5 year pre-pro arch programs guarantee 100% job placement (whatever the “job” could be)
I wish more parents are like you and more kids are like your kids.
Not many could swing multiple tuitions or want to take another foreign languages and read pile of thick books for four more years.
In the end, it comes down to numbers for those nice schools; scores grades and COA that gets in the way.
I don’t think, say, German French Spain models of higher education is that much better, and horrors!!! never ever Japanese way, though Japanese architects are building funky stuff left to right, what about that? It could be the metric system that makes their job easier elsewhere in the world.
Ooo off topic again!
It’s so nice to hear from you momrath, let the hair grow!!</p>
<p>momrath…I agree that talent is definitely a component in many schools. I am just suggesting that the OP needs to try to find out from schools how they will actually view it and how it comes into play in terms of admissions/ scholarship money.</p>
<p>My older D is a vocal performance major (at NYU) and she sent schools a CD of her singing and of an art portfolio.</p>
<p>Our experience was that it ran the gamet in terms of schools considering talent and not.</p>
<p>Barnard really didn’t want any supplements and I don’t think it made a real difference in their admission process. (D got in because of her grades/test scores and leadership-related to music/theatre and student govt, in my opinion.)</p>
<p>For Brandeis, D pursued the music end and met with the music dept…so I think that gave her a niche and was a reason why she got a nice merit scholarship. However, I still think it was her test scores and gpa that got her accepted.</p>
<p>At GW she won a presidential arts merit scholarship for voice.</p>
<p>American…some music money in addition to $ for grades/ leadership.</p>
<p>Muhlenberg gave her an art scholarship and music scholarship as well as other $.</p>
<p>Binghamton didn’t really consider her supplements at all.</p>
<p>We put a lot of research into pursuing talent scholarships and using music and art talent to D’s advantage, but as I said in my earlier post, sometimes it will make very little difference and will not make up for low test scores or grades. My older D was top 5%, pres of her school and had 2130 on the SAT, so for many schools she would have gotten in with or without talent. Younger D has a lower GPA (probably an 89 after soph year)…SAT’s not taken yet, but hoping for the best. She is a smart kid, but struggled with chem and algebra 2 trig this year. 168 on PSAT as a sophomore, so we will see…</p>
<p>So for younger D, I doubt she would get into NYU in a non-talent based program unless her GPA goes up a lot junior year since they will only consider talent for their specific art studio/ music/theatre/film programs. But she has a chance if she applies to studio art.</p>
<p>Does anyone know about how Skidmore works for art students? I know they consider a portfolio, but will it really play a part in admissions and overcome a lower GPA or a lower SAT (as in the OP’s case)?</p>
<p>Skidmore is well, far as I know plan B school for Vassar Wes Bard girls. I am not going too far as to say it is safety because still selective school to get into, but all numbers lower, 100 to 150 or GPA 0.75 sh seems OK compare to tippy top tiers.
also trying to bump up diversity big time but it is not your case?
In the other hand, if you do ED and can do full pay it helps alot. It was rumored some kid we know(pothead but talented musician)'s bigshot parent donated a building to get the kid in.
the story often heard before but somewhat believable…</p>
<p>Yes…well we are not in the building donatation category. We won’t get finaid as we have 2 incomes in NY area which makes us seem rich, but we have spent all our money on kids and their talent! (Plus cost of non-extravagent house on Long Island.)</p>
<p>We are white and Jewish, so no diversity there. Actually husband’s mother was from Argentina, but we decided not to go down that path, since D’s can barely speak Spanish despite being in honors language track!</p>
<p>We are hoping for merit aid money, so no ED. Older D got $11K from NYU… not counting on merit for artistic D, but don’t want to rule it out by applying ED.</p>
<p>Weslyan gives no merit, so I doubt we will go that route, but may throw it in if they let in lopided kids. </p>
<p>Would consider Skidmore, if talent merit is a possiblility and she has a shot. According to Naviance at our school, no one got accepted without having almost a 94 average. But don’t know if they played up talent.</p>
<p>D is currently upstate in Fredonia in the NYSSSA art prgoram. Hopefully she will come back still loving art and with great portfolio pieces. Then the college search begins…</p>