<p>I have an academically strong, deep thinker, avid reader of a daughter who is a talented artist. She is leaning toward majoring in illustration or painting, but is a little on the fence about attending an art school that is not within a college or university. Size is less a factor than location; she wants the Northeast or Midwest. We have visited VCU, MICA, Tyler/Temple (her favorite thus far) and SCAD. We are considering visiting Wash. U. St Louis, U. of Illinois, University of Chicago and the School of the Art Instiutute of Chicago. her grades are excellent, and she scored high on the verbal SAT. Math is average. She is shying away from both Cooper Union and RISD because of their reputations for pretentiousness. Her work is strongly representational, and her portraiture is reminiscent of Alice Neel. Any ideas? I'm a musician and my husband is a physician. We love art, but we're essentially clueless about training!</p>
<p>at least visit, everything else (esp parents’ trades) pointing RISD assuming your kid didn’t like MICA much (painting style is MICA-sh )
Try Wash U, too other schools are not academic-y enuff for you.
If their pretentiousness are not the issue, ahem…Yale?</p>
<p>wUSTL. I have a similar son. He is attending Cooper next year. It is not pretentious, just a weird and anxiety producing application process. Its also totally free.</p>
<p>If she wants strong academics, WUSTL. I also loved Syracuse. Those are the only two Universities I loved when we did this last year, although I came to really think highly about VCU. Didnt visit Temple. SAIC is supposed to have strong writing. My son (and I) loved MICA. He would have gone to MICA if Cooper hadnt happened. MICA’s liberal arts are getting stronger and stronger.</p>
<p>Thank you for these two posts. I definitely wanted her to look at RISD and Cooper, despite her protestations to the contrary. Good to know about about SAICS as well. Yale is on the list, though she is certain she won’t get in. Still, nothing ventured, nothing gained. And that is what I think about RISD and Cooper as well. Thanks for the input. More welcome!!!</p>
<p>If your daughter is serious about being a painter or illustrator, U Chicago is probably not the best place for her since its visual arts program and facilities are not very strong. On the other hand, it definitely has the best academically-oriented and “deep thinking” student body of the schools on your list. (Of course, this opinion comes from a UC alum! 
) </p>
<p>Of the other schools on your list, only WUSTL comes anywhere close to matching UC’s level of academics. The Sam Fox School is very good, so WUSTL would likely provide the best mix of art and academics.</p>
<p>Don’t be too quick to rule out RISD and/or Cooper Union, especially if your primary concern is “pretentiousness.” In my opinion, the reputation is ill-deserved in both cases. (My son went to RISD and my brother went to CU. I consider them both to be very warm, caring individuals.) Visit both schools and let your daughter decide for herself. Certainly she will get a superior art education at these 2 schools. Of all the independent art schools, RISD places greater weight on academic performance in high school than the others, although the portfolio is still the primary driver of the admission decision.</p>
<p>As for other Midwest/Northeast universities that you might want to consider: Carnegie-Mellon, Syracuse, and University of Cincinnati all have strong visual arts programs.</p>
<p>I have to second Switters…I was very leery of S going to an art school because of his strong skills in academic subjects, but MICA won me over in many ways. S however really wanted a university with a strong IT/tech side to complement his art interests so Carnegie Mellon was a perfect fit. WUSTL did not impress him art wise (too traditional for him) but he said several times that it seemed to have the happiest and nicest students of all the schools. MICA seems very strong for the art kid who likes writing and humanities. It is not strong in math, engineering, robotics although it seemed to have some good animation but computer facilities seemed crowded and overused. Very few kids take classes over at JHU. VCU offers the best value of all the universities with strong art but, again, academics at the university are not as strong, particularly in the sciences. Temple was wonderful in terms of facilities but S preferred more of a conceptual program and Temple was definitely more artisan oriented. S ranked his choices CMU, VCU, MICA, UWisconsin (great program and wonderful U) --he wouldn’t apply to coopers (seems to have an unexplained aversion to NYC) or any NY school, SCAD was too commercial, and despite a good scholarship from SAIC he felt the churn in the undergrad program would be very dispiriting (1/2 the kids leave the first two years).</p>
<p>^listen to every words worried- says and assure your H he will never out of place in parents day at Providence
tons of doctor, lawyer, engineer, money counting people will be there and you can be totally clueless about what your kid is learning ( like, pile of trash or naked people strutting around which now we call great art) but can grow with your kid to become strong advocate of the artschool and its operational funds donor =willing full pay 200K plus</p>
<p>^^ listen to fammom if your kid is math science OK kind.
what SAT median are you talking about? if CC standard forget it, your kid can get in anywhere with good portfolio.
CMU had maybe best paintings laying around for what in Uni-s I saw. Then again, I don’t know who did them (it was during summer) was tempting to just roll it up and stuff in my bag and walk off. It was that good.</p>
<p>the other thing is if she is a total brainiac and wants to work really hard, risd/brown program. Also if you visit risd you will fall in love. Its like hogwarts for artists. but they dont give any money. MICA will give your strong academic kid a bunch of academic scholarship money.</p>
<p>So one of the things it will come down to is conceptual vs. traditional, in my opinion.</p>
<p>conceptual: CMU, Cooper, SAIC</p>
<p>traditional PAFA (with classes from University of Penn.)
SMFA (tufts degree)</p>
<p>possibility of both: WUSTL, RISD, VCU, MICA</p>
<p>right now the only stretch schools I saw on your list of visits so far are WUSTL and U of C. </p>
<p>Bears, I thought Yale didnt have BFA? only graduate? Also Bears do you agree with my conceptual/traditional breakdown above?</p>
<p>maybe both: MICA</p>
<p>yay switters you rock</p>
<p>yes (or no? how do you answer if anyone asks “doesn’t…?” questions? )
Yale college art major (UG) is BA but do you care if it’s Yale?
there were talk it does not do much to do with the school of art (grad school) but I do hear good things can happen. If you are really good and self promotive, you do get to use their resources, like Matthew Barney or that cute guy, Peter Eleey. They are older than our kids but I don’t see reasons why it had to be changed.
they are gonna tell you if you can major art for sure after soph, I think, assuming you’d planed ahead and covered all req.classes.
I hear now if you are chosen, Junior- senior summer you get to do summer art course that’s a sort of welcome mat for its grad school.
It is never our option anyway but yale is yale is yale… I always liked its gallery shows though New Heaven is not exactly ideal college town, the gap is maybe bigger than any other Ivies.
I had to pull out my wisdom tooth when I worked in NH and the pain and the drabby dentist’s office always associate with the image of the town, so you don’t have to listen to me. Upen to Phily did not bother me much in the same sense of Columbia to NYC, I guess it’s massive size of the city and its diversity?
does anyone have experience with PAFA and UPen? it rumored not that easy, but boy, PAFA, I do get them why you should go to school to learn art there. But if you want to do that kind of works you can do it at any artier or become apprentice to artist or something after you do good BA BS with book study somewhere else, so you’d have more employable skill to support your fancy.</p>
<p>from your list, I don’t think SMFA is viewed traditional, but I am very biased.
you are the living proof of can-do-traditional-if-wanted-to but love Cooper, loved by Cooper.
Maybe kid’s style now ( HS, 16, 17, 18?) does not need to determine what kind of school they should choose or who they become, unless one got solid solid goal, like wants to be commercial artist, must work for this and that firm or field. </p>
<p>Visit and talk to kids and teachers, look at students’ works on the wall and at students’ shows ( like, if I have not seen RISD bike drawings show, I could be bit more kind to them. then of course it never determines what RISD can do to you AFTER those bikes, RISD saw something special in you otherwise you weren’t admitted then your pathetic bike won’t be on the wall)
It is right, once you see RISD’s studios and library you would always compare to it wherever you go. If not those fabulous gate keeping proud parents here at CC and the bikes, I might have been sucked into it.
Good thing we could never afford and my kid’s stats and work ethics won’t cut it.</p>
<p>OP mom, you never said about LAC?
painting (not so much so-called-illustration) is OK there.
I liked Williams, Wes, Vassar, Knox. Teaching could be biased (esp. at Wes, watch out for the queen bee painting chair) and kids’ skill levels could be all over the place but it can be a good thing for more tight knit campus community and bigger opportunity and endowment per student, alumni connection etc.</p>
<p>Hello everyone,
Thanks to everyone who posted! I am not sure about a few of the abbreviations. I don’t know what SMFA, LAC and CC are. The other, smaller schools I am familiar with but how many can we realistically apply to! Her list has eleven schools on it already!!!
She has SAT language scores in 97-99 percentile, her math is 50th. GPA is 3.75-3.8 so far. The list thus far: WUSTL, Temple, MICA, SAICS, Cooper, RISD, CMU, SCAD,(not a top runner for the reasons fineartsmajormom described) VCU (also not top contender because the studnet art didn’t impress her- even the MFA stuff ) and Yale. She will be staying on the Penn campus this summer for a Tyler camp that has housing there. You can’t do PA Acad of Fine Art as an undergrad; and all the Philly friends say that the Penn art program is not up to snuff. <em>SIGH</em>
What we parentals want is a program that has strong academics AND art. Interesting stat about SAICS. We are visiting WUSTL, U. Illinois, and SAICS soon. UC is interesting to her because its UC. So she is a little all-over-the-map.
By the way, we live in East Tennessee, so the travelling alone is daunting. But we want to do whats best for her, and we love the idea of PHL, NY (I am a native) or MICA because we like going there! Complicated, huh?</p>
<p>SMFA - School of the Museum of Fine Arts (Boston)
LAC - a liberal arts college (any one)
CC - could be College Confidential, could be community college</p>
<p>My daughter was in the same boat, wanting both art and academics and was definitely all over the map in her applications. In the end, she chose to go for a BFA and she chose MICA, partially because they have a kind of hybrid BFA/BA degree.</p>
<p>Hmm, Midwest and Northeast huh? Okay, how about looking at:</p>
<p>U of Michigan
Ohio State
U of Penn (art is better then you’ve heard)
NYU
Columbia
Bard</p>
<p>Best,
Wheaty</p>
<p>thanks G
I meant College Confidential where median SAT score is about 750 each 2200 total, not some community colleges around here cr. and math together being about 750</p>
<p>OP mom
if she get to stay in Penn, suppose able to use its facility? Check out galleries ( esp. contemporary one near bookstore) studios, design building, art library (very pretty and brainy but less wow! that RISD)
try visiting around Philly for PAFA, U of Art, Moore, Drexel (surprise safety dark horse) if you just want to see what else are out. You’d appreciate the variety you get from the one city, then you’d know that already.</p>
<p>wow TN… Memphis?
How do you like MCA? I went to see it because joint program with Rhodes college seemed cool but it was a kind of turn off. How do locals view Rhodes? I am very curious.</p>
<p>ask greenwitch about Columbia, her D was in.</p>
<p>Thanks Wheaty and Greenwitch. Especially the word about Penn, which her dad attended. My gut instinct is that she would be very happy there. I guess she will find out about that in a few short weeks, so that’s good! We have had mail from Bard and Comumbia… will take a look later this summer.
Anyone know anything about U. Illinois? She met a painting prof who we think is adjunct faculty when she was at Interlochen last summer. She thought the prof was great, but we have not heard much about the program.</p>
<p>Hi Bears,</p>
<p>Not memphis. Other end of the state. We are in Knoxville, UT has solid if unglamorous art program. Memphis is a really rough city. Rhodes is great, but after her brother’s negative experience in Memphis, she is not eager to go there. And want out of the south. We lived in PHL for 13 years. Its “home” for her. She was born there.</p>
<p>Bears and dogs,
Do you live in Philly? curious!</p>
<p>I am an immigrant from Japan now live in NYC, my kid wanted do LACs and when stats were actually OK (not anymore, long story) we looked need blind LACs in the corridor. It is not much of art kind school but Swarthmore was his mentors/ friends from camp’s thing and Philly was sort of extended from there, the museum always has bit off center but nice shows and can do cheap day trip. (non art) friends now here went school there, St Joseph, Temple, Pen state out of Philly… they all seem had good time.</p>
<p>Oh now I see, Memphis is toward West, my bad</p>
<p>U Illinois Urbana Champaign? There is this nice young man poster named brian goes MICA was from the area and had some story to tell, I think. I called on him before and he was nice about it, maybe he won’t mind answering questions again, I will ask.
I just heard from other kid who wants to go there badly. there must be something good about it ?
I did pass Champaign after Memphis and boy, bus stations’ public bathroom conditions are like, extreme opposite.
did not see the school but the town was lovely.</p>