<p>My son had a very positive experience as an UG at Caltech. He never took an engineering course. Research was easy, you just ask. Internships were usually found before winter break. Many stay on campus for summer funded programs, SURFS. The House system works well. You mingle with students from all years and get advice about courses and profs. The Houses have barbecues and activities on weekends, e.g. Movies and hiking. The food plan does not include weekends, thankfully, so kids were able to eat at the many restaurants in the area. Each House has a kitchen, so kids could cook or bake there. Classes don’t start until 11.My son rode his bike around the lovely Pasadena area. Towards his last years he ventured more from campus. Never did he think there were too few students. when he entered grad school, he chose to live in a dorm. He likes to be able to leave his room and always find people around.</p>
<p>Two of his closest friends were young women. One from the Bay area had him home for T-day. There was little of the hook-up scene. I believe there is less binge drinking than at many other campuses. The worm was quite active in two ECs. He also spent a lot of time with video games.</p>
<p>The worm was young and reserved when he entered. He was far less prepared academically than many of his peers. Having the first two terms P/F was quite helpful. I think everyone was in a study group. The most popular times for these groups were 11 or 12pm. One can also withdraw from a class a few weeks before finals. When the worm was ill for most of a term, he got all incompletes. The Dean arranged that he could complete the work within six or so months. Huntington Hospital is close by, and the health center referred him to someone in their network. I am mentioning this as an example of the benefit of a small school.</p>
<p>The worm ultimately ended up in grad school. He shifted his focus several times, taking many finance courses. Among his friends, one is in med school, one in MBA program, several in finance, others in jobs or grad school.</p>
<p>Caltech definitely has extra-curricular activities. Years ago I got to see *Lady’s Not for Burning *with Richard Feynman in a small part. Where else are you going to see something like that?!</p>
<p>Caltech currently appears to be the kinder, gentler version of the Caltech from 30-40 years ago, when most of the people that I know well attended. That was an era when a rather large fraction of the students failed the first-year calculus course (no relation to AP Calculus). Time magazine even carried a one-page article on the failure rate at Caltech. One of my friends of that era described the phenomenon of “flunking in” at Caltech–that is, a number of the students got grades that were not low enough to flunk out, but not good enough to transfer out.</p>
<p>Even with the pass/fail grading for the first two terms, I still think of Caltech as very challenging. It seems to me that a key question is one of personality, and particularly the ability to relax when there is still a lot of work to be done. It’s a useful skill to acquire, but perhaps not so common among bright 18-year-olds, who are accustomed to handling all of the curve balls in their classes.</p>
<p>Then again, it may be more * difficult* to spend much time & energy in outside pursuits at Cal tech, than someplace with a little lower bar & I think it is fine to recognize what you want.</p>
<p>Reed is also a little “too much” for many. My daughter wouldn’t even take magazines on the train on breaks because she had so much reading.</p>
<p>Although he has already visited, perhaps it would be worth visiting those he is really torn about again.</p>
<p>I imagine they are all quite different- but have him decide to commit to one & see if that makes any of the rest stand out in his mind.</p>
<p>I don’t know if Reed’s vocal groups are on a level with say Carleton’s, but my daughter participated in the vocal ensembles at Reed while she was earning her bio degree & really enjoyed that. She even had the director of the chorus, Virgina Hancock, on her thesis committee. ( She has chemistry degrees from Reed & Harvard as well as a phd in music history from U of O-)
There is a strong connection between music & science.</p>
<p>Thanks to all who have contributed their thoughts to this somewhat nervous parent. Actually, S has visited all the schools he got into except for Cornell, which was a last minute addition to his application list. Caltech was the place that he (and we) liked the most. S just loves SoCal and we have a close family friend who lives in the area. But we all very much liked the others as well. My concern is this. S is a brilliant kid who absorbs complex material quickly and easily and he has been able to do well in extremely challenging high school STEM courses without really extending himself. He even prides himself on it. He is also very laid back and does not stress easily. But how will this combination of traits serve him when thrown into the intense pressure cooker of Caltech? The saving grace there, it seems to me, is the collaborative nature of the academic environment. It has also occurred to us, however, that at a large school like Cornell he might drift if left to his own devices. Amherst is probably not a good fit for a STEM type, but really struck us as a great place and we loved Reed as well. S is going to pre-frosh weekend at Caltech the week after next and will have an opportunity to see whether it suits him socially.</p>
<p>I think ultimately this decision should rest on your son’s perceived goals. Of course these can change over time. However, if he wants a cutting edge, intellectual career in his discipline he will have to learn to handle the pressure. </p>
<p>Actually all these schools have academic pressure. If he liked Cal Tech the best, they obviously think he has the chops to get through their programs so why not try. If he is unhappy he can transfer. Opportunities to attend Cal Tech don’t come along every day. It would be sad to miss the experience out of fear.</p>
<p>One could say the same to some extent about Cornell and Reed as well. </p>
<p>In fact, having several friends who attended & thrived at Reed and seeing the extremely heavy academic workload and intense rigor was one major factor in why I opted to not apply there. </p>
<p>Cornell also has a reputation as a pressure-cooker school even among the Ivies back when I was in high school and college…though relatives and friends who attended managed to survive and even do well there. However, the stress was present among them…especially among the pre-meds. </p>
<p>As for the laid-back part…that may change. </p>
<p>Reed, Cornell, and certainly Caltech do not strike me as schools which suit laid-back type students very well…unless they can adjust to being work hard/play hard types quickly.</p>
<p>It’s a pressure-cooker school for engineering and architecture, and for those students who hope to go to medical or veterinary school. For everyone else, not so much.</p>
<p>Cornell is best suited for independent, self-motivated students, in my opinion. Except in the small schools (architecture, hotel administration, and industrial and labor relations), there is nobody watching over you to see how you are doing. Help of all sorts is available, but students have to seek it out. It won’t find them. This appeals to some people but is a bad fit for others. </p>
<p>Still, if your son decides against Caltech, Cornell would probably be the next best choice in terms of research opportunities. It might be worth a visit.</p>
<p>That’s not what people I know who attended Cornell said…including a pre-med cousin who was a double major in chemistry and sociology. </p>
<p>She said the humanities and social science classmates there were just slightly less pressured compared to the pre-meds and engineers. According to her and others, some of it came from the general campus culture and the highly competitive pre-professional atmosphere…especially those who were angling for Wall Street and other highly competitive corporate jobs.</p>
<p>Current weather in Portland-61 F( actually anticipated high, it is only 8am on west coast)
". ". Ithaca - 42f
". ". Amherst-44f
". ". Williamsberg -57f
". ". Pasadena- anticipated high is 80f.
:)</p>
<p>He should be able to tell a lot from the accepted students weekend. Not only will he get a chance to see the campus again, but he will meet those who may become his classmates.</p>
<p>@cobrat: I think we are talking about different selections of students from the vast Cornell population.</p>
<p>And that in itself says something about Cornell. It’s so large and varied that there is no one typical Cornell experience.</p>
<p>My daughter thought Cornell was easier than high school, and she was a social science major. (She also went to a particularly rigorous high school.) Several of her friends, mostly in the business program or the hotel school, did not find Cornell to be particularly stressful. But others, especially in engineering, did. </p>
<p>YMMV – as we often say here.</p>
<p>I definitely agree with you that there is a pre-professional feel to Cornell. It is the only school in the Ivy League that does not have the majority of its students in liberal arts majors, and that makes a difference.</p>
<p>jmgradon, I read this whole thread. Was gonna ask where Harvey Mudd was in the discussion, but saw an old post of yours stating your dislike. </p>
<p>Based on his stats and likes your son should go to Caltech. He will be among peers (I don’t think the term “like-minded” is fair to all the individuals there). He will thrive.</p>
<p>Being laid-back and being hard-working are not mutually exclusive. I’m a pretty laid-back person and I love Reed. I’ve long accepted that I can’t do all of the work that is required of me and I don’t have nervous breakdowns over it. Doesn’t mean I don’t work hard; I just don’t build up a reservoir of anxiety and resentment over the week that I need to burn on the weekend, or berate myself for not being ‘good enough’ when the curriculum is clearly designed for superhumans.</p>
<p>Which is why I’d say to the OP that having a chill, relaxed personality may actually benefit his son in a more high-stress environment, as long as it doesn’t come with laziness/a sense of academic entitlement. If he likes his field of study to the point where he would study it independently, and isn’t much of a worrier, he’ll be okay.</p>
<p>True. However, the reason why I brought that up is that one common disturbing tendency among many laid-back undergrads who were my/HS classmates’ college classmates was that if they had to put in extra effort to get an A or even a B beyond what they’re used to from coast-to-As type average/mediocre high school…they’d be inclined to settle for a C type grade when they’re capable of achieving more with a bit more effort. </p>
<p>It’s something which drove their parents and to some extent…me/HS classmates to exasperation. The former because they’re paying/facing higher tuition payments due to loss of scholarships…the latter because that mentality/attitude is so alien to the way we were socialized at home and in school. </p>
<p>And I was a bit too laid-back/slackerish about grades in high school because I was overwhelmed academically…and didn’t pay much attention to them in college because I was excelling without having to put nearly as much effort in as I did to achieve Cs in high school.</p>
<p>It sounds as if Amherst and Cornell offer more of a traditional college experience. Caltech and Reed are for those who enjoy being steeped in the STEM subjects. </p>
<p>Also to consider: Portland is a wonderful city filled with young people and wonderful distractions. Also has a great transportation system. Reed is a great campus. But, the climate is rainy and it’s gloomy. Often. The best weather is summer when students are gone.</p>
<p>Pasadena is close to L.A. for fun and thrills, and you can walk or ride a bike to almost anywhere in the city. It’s charming and lovely. And the weather is amazing.</p>
<p>Caltech is the “best” school on your list, but someone that enjoys having free time may not be a good fit for him. I’ve heard Reed is pretty hard too, especially with grade deflation, so keep that in mind especially if he is considering med school. Reed reminds me a bit of Harvey Mudd in this respect.</p>
<p>What kind of math/science major is he interested in pursuing? That may make a difference.</p>
<p>If it were me, I would probably choose Cornell, definitely if you are considering engineering. (It has a reputation for being tough, but it’s not like Caltech, so you can still have some free time.) Reed has a good track record of sending people to grad school in science; I think they also have their own nuclear reactor–not typical for a liberal arts school. Amherst is obviously a great school, though I heard it is less sciency than its peer liberal arts schools (Williams, Swarthmore.) I know people who went to MIT for grad school in chem and physics, so it can be good for either.</p>
<p>I don’t know much about William & Mary, but I’d probably only consider it if I was interested in bio or chem. I know a person who got into an excellent med school out of William & Mary.</p>
<p>It really depends on what his priorities are. The correct choice depends on the following:
campus
how much you value prestige
is a liberal arts atmosphere important
amount of free time (would exclude Caltech, the only people happy there are the ones engrossed in their work.)
<p>This nervous parent would like to thank all who contributed for their very helpful and perceptive remarks. I think mythmom may have said it best when she suggested that if S intends to do cutting edge research in his chosen field–which at this point looks like it might be theoretical physics–sooner or later he is going to have to deal with real pressure. I guess it might as well be sooner. Caltech here he comes.</p>