To add to @momofsenior1 comments and some others. As some know we live in Chicago. When people hear that someone goes to Northwestern and even UChicago it’s like “nice whatever” but when they hear my son goes to Michigan, it’s like "wow it’s so hard to get into, he must be smart. Lol… Yes, things can be regional and get diluted.
As far as being a legal witness, I have played that role a few times. Don’t think my undergrad (Wayne State anyone?) or medical school has anything to do with it. Yes, big names sound great but it usually comes down to your expertise and certifications or board certification plus of course what you present. Just saying.
@happytimes2001- apologies, you were correct. I think it was @MWolf who quoted me and made a comment about a jury in Tuscaloosa. Very hard to read on my phone! Must have seen the wrong post/poster name. Sure wish we could get the old CC format back, but that will happen when pigs fly.
@mWolf As I stated, you must be living in a different universe than most on CC. Most folks on these boards are not talking about how to get into a community college and whether they will go to trade school vs. getting a degree so they can make more money. Most on CC are talking about how they can do the best they can given what they have ( grades as well as $ for education). Check the forums and you see tons of references to ranking colleges etc. You may be focused on only your local schools but there are many others for whom an expensive education is something you need to research carefully. And while folks in your area might not know X school, I have no idea what UIUC is either. I have no skin in the game for either Dartmouth or Williams or any other. But I do recognize that some schools will open more doors than others. I am not trying to convince you.
You seem to have a lot of issues and make conjectures and inferences that have nothing at all to anything I said. Who said anything about the value of teachers and social workers? Seems you went off on a political diatribe. Bet I can guess which way you are leaning.
Teachers in my town earn an average of more than 80K ( yep they do), nurses DO earn more than 100 very often (they start about 65K, we have a recent college graduate as a data point) and social workers I’d guess would earn less. So we really are living different parts of the nation.
Since the OP question was does where you go to school matter? My response would be, it certainly does in some industries and for some schools. In some jobs not so much.
I get it, your point is for most people in the US, who are going to make 40K after they graduate from college, the type of school doesn’t matter. And I would agree for some professions in some regions of the country. Move to an area with a lot of good colleges and try to get a job from unknown U and it’s likely to be a tough job market ( even if you have talent). In some areas, not a lot of people go to college. Then again, in some towns 99% of kids start college, so again very different lives in various states.
And to the duel at dawn, I’m likely to be sleeping in. I’m not one to try to twist someone else’s arm. Plus I’m guessing that geographically you live very far away.
@Knowsstuff - can’t speak for others, but when I have had to send my vitae when I was recommended to be involved with attorneys (sometimes hired as a consultant to review records, sometimes being asked to see a client, sometime after a client I had seen as a patient gets involved in litigation because of a brain injury) or been sworn in as an expert in depositions, many times I have gotten a comment about my undergrad. Did I select that undergrad many, many years ago in anticipation of this circumstance? Of course not.
@jym626. Totally get it
Both my wife and I have played in that arena. But in the end it is your deposition /results that matter. Not starting a debate here just saying. I mean Harvard is more impressive then Wayne State… I get that. But if my deposition is more impressive due to certain facts then where I went to school has little to do with it.
I do though think that where you go to school “Can” matter. No question about that in certain fields. But to me hard work trumps all.
ha, @Knowsstuff - don’t shortchange the Tartars! One of the smartest people I know (and the best boss I ever worked for) got his terminal degree from Wayne State. Didn’t seem to hurt him a bit, career-wise.
Is it the school that makes the kid or the kid that makes the school? Most students at elite schools would excel anywhere. I don’t know why parents of elite-level students worry so much about missed opportunities or closed doors by such students attending less prestigious schools. Just take a look at what students receiving the top merit scholarships accomplish at their less prestigious schools - same/higher level of achievement as their counterparts at more prestigious schools.
As for experts, I hire them all the time. I care very little about where they got their degree 20-40 years ago.
Totally agree, @knowsstuff. Of course its not what the school offers, but what you do with what the school offers. Ditto with how you practice your profession and the reputation you earn. There is a physician (won’t list the specialty as it might be too obvious to other professionals who live here!) in my neck of the woods who went to Yale, but is a complete whack job and everyone knows it.
And yes we’ve talked many, many times on CC about the students who turned down elite schools for big Stamps scholarships, Morehead-Cain, etc. I know one personally who turned down Harvard for the UGA Foundation Fellows. We’ve had this conversation a million times.
The question was… does where you go to school matter? All some of us are saying is, in some circumstances it can. It may get your foot in the door somewhere, it may give some “credibility”. But should a student pick a $$$$ school just because of that? IMO, NO.
As for things like depositions, we are again talking here of what the initial benefit of the school might have been, perhaps to open a door, etc. As for the “results” of a deposition, well, I don’t personally think that what school a person attended has much of an influence on that, other than how well they come across with their information/knowledge/experience, how well they express their expert opinion, etc. Do critical thinking and “elocution” skills" help? Probably. Can that be learned in many places? Sure.
There are people from top schools who sound like jerks on the stand, and people from less known schools who do an excellent job. IMO that is a separate issue from this discussion.
@Knowsstuff The experts testimony is based on two parts: the person’s educational attainment and 2. their expertise, usually based on experience. While you may not care where they went to school, members of the jury often do. I also, have been an expert witness. And a very important piece of the pie was the educational attainment. You certainly don’t want your expert witness going up against theirs if one went to unknown U and the other went to Harvard. The jury has innate biases and these factors often come into play. They are much less likely to question someone with the proper credentials. It’s not only what your degree is in, but also if you received honors and wrote papers etc.
This is just one example of how where you went to school matters and naturally applies to a small segment of the population.
So, while hard work might overcome all as a moral lesson in a discussion with your kids. In reality, there are very many people who work less and get more for a variety of reasons. I tell my kids to work hard and not worry about everyone else. But I wouldn’t lie to them and tell them hard work matters most of all. Timing, skills and attitude can put you in a place that hard work would never take you. And that place can make all the difference.
Has anyone else on this thread been on cc long enough to be having flashbacks of Annasdad’s Pascarella and Terenzini articles debate? Puleeeze, for all that is good and holy, let’s not go down that rabbit hole again!
@jym626 referencing someone means to post their user name to call into question. The concept of a expert witness is not a unique concept although your post did get me thinking.
I also love how the threads always go from the comparison of a Harvard grad vs podunk u. Yes of course a jury might be impressed with a Harvard grad if they present well. They might also think they’re a dolt if they don’t. My point is if we believe that there is a global approval checklist that grants a brown or Cornell or Chicago grad or an advantage over someone from UNC or GWU. In a witness box or 99 percent of life. We just disagree.
However. If my post was read closely beyond the parts some people don’t seem to agree with, I do believe hps and m have a special place even among the regular folks with which I am quite familiar.
To pick a few top schools as a little joke. For the rest of the world…
Rice is a global food source, Smith Is an exceedingly common last name, USC is a state school in the south for many, Cal is a first name, Vanderbilt is designer jeans and Columbia is a country.
@privatebanker- actually, posting someone’s name is calling them out. Referencing exactly what another poster wrote about and commenting on it… well if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…
And as for college names that have other references, cracks me up when people spell Columbia “Colombia”. THAT is the country! Columbia is a sports clothing line.
IMO, the actual 4-year education you get and that stays with you the rest of your life is the most important point not necessarily the “name brand” or “prestige” factor of some elite colleges.
With that said, your undergrad education is with you forever (LinkedIn, resumes, conversation with clients, collegues, , friends, etc).
To me it’s not all about job opportunities or ROI. It’s much deeper that that.
That I can agree with. My only point is that countless people feel the same exact way as you and from schools across the spectrum. But we only know our perception.
No right or wrong. It’s just a perspective.
And this thread seems to be definately more about the tangible than the emotional imho.
. Don’t think posters here are addressing the difference between an elite/ivy vs other top schools. UNC, GW, etc are also top schools that will provide excellent resources, opportunities, networks, job fairs, etc for its students. I actually do think these “discussions” ARE about the difference between these type of schools vs “lower” schools (call them podunk, call them ttt for those who remember the old Princeton Review days, or what have you). No one is saying students can’t get a good education at most schools, and 100% agree that the bright, go-getters will do well wherever they go.
As for this
This warms my heart, as it says us old farts are still useful and marketable/hireable. Also agree with the points that with linkedin, etc, our histories do follow us. Whether it matters is another thing.