Which college is more prestigious?

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

Is Villa San Michele, Florence prestigious? I bet it isn’t for you.

</p>

<p>I haven’t personally heard of it, but that simply means I don’t know enough about it for me to know whether it’s prestigious or not. It doesn’t make it NOT prestigious. It simply makes it “don’t know enough yet to comment.” It may be the most luxurious hotel in Florence or in Italy for all I know. And it may be very prestigious and well regarded among the crowd of “highly experienced, in-the-know travelers in Italy who know the off-the-beaten path places and experiences.” Which is the crowd whose opinions I’d care about, not the opinions of the masses.</p>

<p>And if I were researching hotels to stay in, and I came across this hotel, and the reviews from trusted sources convinced me that it was high quality, luxurious, worth the money, etc., I’d stay there even if no one in my neighborhood / book club / town / local Starbucks knew of it. Because whether or not it was prestigious to THEM is of no importance or consequence whatsoever.</p>

<p>

Personally, partially, I feel better if anyone would recognize how expensive the clothes I wear, or the car I drive, or the village where I reside in, etc, etc… It may not be my main motivation for aspiring to become successful, but it does sure feels good when the general public recognizes what I’ve earned and what I have.

</p>

<p>Yes, RML. We can tell that it’s very important to you that other people recognize how expensive your belongings are. You might want to leave the price tags on, it’s easier for them that way. </p>

<p>You might want to consider that feeling good when other people see and recognize your possessions isn’t really “prestigious” behavior. The true elites in this country, at least, buy what they want and do what they want precisely because they’ve made it enough that they don’t need to care what the masses think. That’s why you’ll find preppy blue-bloods who could buy and sell all of us wearing Mummy’s old cashmere cardigan and sister’s hand-me-down khakis, and it’s the nouveau riche wannabes who make sure that the designer labels are showing so that everyone knows precisely how much they paid. Wanting so badly to impress others isn’t the behavior of the elites you are aspiring to. </p>

<p>I think quiet self-confidence and self-assurance that what you are buying / doing is high quality is far more “elite” than constantly looking around and saying, “See? Do I impress you yet with all the things I’m buying / doing? How about now?”</p>

<p>I have a hand-me-down Bottega Veneta bag from my mother that I’ve carried off and on for the last 15 years. It doesn’t have the obvious-to-the-masses branding of Gucci, Fendi or Louis Vuitton. But YK something? <em>I</em> can tell it’s high quality by how it’s made. The people who know good quality recognize a BV bag and know that it’s a well-made classic investment. The people in line with me at Starbucks? What do I care if they recognize it for what it is? </p>

<p>It’s <em>other people’s problem</em> if they don’t know enough to know what quality of “stuff” I might buy, do, use, or in the case of college, send my kids to. It’s not <em>my</em> problem nor is it anything I need to rectify by ensuring the brands I buy / do / use / send my kids to are prestigious enough to impress those around me. Apparently, you do.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

It may not be my main motivation for aspiring to become successful, but it does sure feels good when the general public recognizes what I’ve earned and what I have.

</p>

<p>But why does it have to be a competition? Why does what you have have to beat someone else for it to be good enough? Why is it so important for you to assert, for example, that Berkeley is more prestigious than Brown? Why can’t both Berkeley and Brown be prestigious schools for different reasons?</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

You’ve got to be familiar with the subject for you to be able to say it is prestigious, for how can you comment on something that you don’t know anything about?

</p>

<p>Ah. But “being familiar” (as is, have heard the name) isn’t really enough to be able to say that something is prestigious. Being both actually knowledgeable and having discerning taste in that given area are what counts. </p>

<p>That’s the problem with how the Asian community defines prestige. It’s all about “have I heard of this – if I have, it must be good quality; if I haven’t, it mustn’t be.” So they’ve all heard of Berkeley but they haven’t heard of, say, Harvey Mudd. Or Middlebury. Or Haverford. Or whatever. So they ascribe prestige to Berkeley based on “having heard of” rather than on considerations of what the actual quality is. Berkeley may very well deserve its standing; that’s not the point. That community overinflates awareness and considers it identical with quality. They have a problem conceiving that there are very fine, equally as fine, schools over here that they just haven’t heard of. </p>

<p>** 1) We haven’t heard of it! 2) Well, then it can’t be any good!** The second statement does not flow as a logical conclusion from the first. It is illogical. It is about as illogical as my saying that Villa San Michele can’t be a very good hotel since I’ve never heard of it.</p>

<p>That speaks directly to why so many of us on CC roll our eyes at the repeated “This is what the Asians think” threads. “What the Asians haven’t heard of” means nothing. “What the general public hasn’t heard of” means nothing. Why would we care about illogical conclusions?</p>

[dimsum123]

<p>

@Pizzagirl

That’s the problem with how the Asian community defines prestige.

</p>

<p>Not nearly as bad as your problem with perpetuating naive and ignorant stereotypes.</p>

<p>

@Pizzagirl

But why does it have to be a competition? Why does what you have have to beat someone else for it to be good enough?

</p>

<p>Why do you care? I thought you didn’t care what other people think.</p>

[Schmaltz]

<p>While the Michigan/UNC debate is interesting, does it have any actual practical application? I mean is there even ONE person who can be on the fence between these two schools to the point that he will actually attend the one which wins the debate? If there is a difference in prestige, it’s apparently so minor that it couldn’t possibly the deciding factor for a sane person. It’s painful to see so much brainpower devoted to a topic with such irrelevance. With this same effort, you guys probably could have done something truly monumental, like come up with a plan to save the Haitian economy or a plan to jump-start the career of one Miss Lindsay Lohan.</p>

[rjkofnovi]

<p>^^^^Most of this thread over the last couple of days had little to do with either school.</p>

[anon67455021]

<p>Michigannnn</p>

[RML]

<p>

But why does it have to be a competition? Why does what you have have to beat someone else for it to be good enough? Why is it so important for you to assert

Simply because you only have to choose one school. It’s precisely why the OP was asking. He can’t attend both schools simultaneously, thus he asked. He asked which between UMich and UNC is more prestigious. I answered the OP to the best of knowledge. And I supported it why I think it is so. Whether prestige is really important in school selection is not for me to decide, and this thread is not about that. I can only tell him it’s not that huge a deal because while Michigan is more prestigious, the other is more desirable to attend, as some of you would argue. But school desirability is not what the OP asked. Again, this thread is not for such discussion. So, please stop talking something that’s not the main issue of this thread. </p>

<p>

I haven’t personally heard of it, but that simply means I don’t know enough about it for me to know whether it’s prestigious or not. It doesn’t make it NOT prestigious.

I disagree. It’s the people - including you and me - who define prestige. Do you think we can just manufacture an object and declare it prestigious even if nobody has heard of it other than the two of us? That’s not how prestige works, my friend. You’ve got to make your product known. And, until you can do that, it won’t make your product prestigious. </p>

<p>Applying that principle to my previous question, I can say that Villa San Michele, is not prestigious for you because you’ve not even heard of it. You cannot patronize it. You will not buy it. If you are the only customer, the business will collapse later on.</p>

[RML]

<p>

1. We haven’t heard of it! 2) Well, then it can’t be any good!

I did not say that.</p>

<p>Not all good schools are prestigious. There are a lot of good schools around the world. But how many of them can we really say they’re prestigious schools?</p>

<p>

“This is what the Asians think” threads. “What the Asians haven’t heard of” means nothing. “What the general public hasn’t heard of” means nothing.

Oh, you only made that up. And, in case you didn’t know, I’m not even Asian. lol</p>

[Hunt]

<p>

Universal prestige is greater than particular prestige.

This is what I don’t agree with. Or maybe I don’t know what you intend by “greater.” As I’ve indicated, the greater universal prestige of Harvard will not help you if you are competing for an engineering job with a Caltech grad. Or for a vocal performance job with a Juilliard grad. So I would say that relevant prestige is “greater” than irrelevant prestige. If what’s relevant to you is what your barber thinks, then OK, Harvard’s universal prestige is “greater.” If what’s relevant to you is what the people in your field, or the people who might hire you, think, then it’s a different story.</p>

<p>And I have to say that the idea that Asians are concerned about this general prestige doesn’t come out of thin air, at least for somebody who’s been reading CC for a while. I’ve read numerous threads in which an Asian student was having trouble convincing parents that it would make sense to look at LACs, or other schools that are not generally well known. I wonder if this ties in with the focus in Asian countries on stats for college admission–the idea that numerical rankings are very important. (And haven’t we been talking about what’s prestigious in Asia? Certainly Berkeley isn’t more prestigious than Brown on the East Coast of the U.S.)</p>

[dimsum123]

<p>

@Hunt

And haven’t we been talking about what’s prestigious in Asia? Certainly Berkeley isn’t more prestigious than Brown on the East Coast of the U.S.

</p>

<p>I cannot speak for anyone else, but I certainly haven’t. But now that we are talking about it, the idea that all Asians believe that Berkeley is more prestigious than the (non-HYP) ivies is a CC myth. </p>

<p>Asian internationals in-the-know consider Brown much more prestigious than Berkeley. Some of the richest Asians have sent their children there. I personally know the son of a leading beverage supplier in Hong Kong and the daughter of one of the founders of the Singaporean telecommunications industry. Both went to Brown.</p>

[dimsum123]

<p>

@Hunt

Quote:
Universal prestige is greater than particular prestige. </p>

<p>This is what I don’t agree with. Or maybe I don’t know what you intend by “greater.” As I’ve indicated, the greater universal prestige of Harvard will not help you if you are competing for an engineering job with a Caltech grad.

</p>

<p>I have already addressed this in a previous post. This is what I said verbatim:</p>

<p>“True, but the few Harvard students who study engineering do not find engineering jobs to be especially prestigious. That’s why most of them parlay their engineering background into more lucrative jobs in finance and consulting and/or end up enrolling at business, law and medical schools.”</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

But why does it have to be a competition? Why does what you have have to beat someone else for it to be good enough? Why is it so important for you to assert </p>

<p>Simply because you only have to choose one school.

</p>

<p>Why can’t two schools be of roughly similar prestige? We weren’t talking about U Michigan vs Eastern Montana State. We were talking about U Michigan vs UNC. Yeah, generally speaking U Michigan is going to have stronger prestige in the midwest, and UNC in the south, but in the realm of large state public universities they’ll each get you to pretty much the same place. So why do you sweat these differences? Why is it necessary to compare them? Why isn’t the answer “they are in the same ballpark” enough?</p>

<p>My kids happen to be looking at some LAC’s that from a rankings basis, range from maybe #8 or so down to the low 20’s / early 30’s. Do you know what that means? It means that they are all in the same ballpark. They all have enough prestige to get a smart, motivated person where he wants to be. Yeah, yeah, the masses know some of them more than others, and they are more well-regarded in this region versus that, and blah blah blah. But it’s all the same ballpark. Toss #60 in there, and now you’re talking about something where a prestige differential might be worth thinking about.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

Asian internationals in-the-know consider Brown much more prestigious than Berkeley. Some of the richest Asians have sent their children there. I personally know the son of a leading beverage supplier in Hong Kong and the daughter of one of the founders of the Singaporean telecommunications industry. Both went to Brown.

</p>

<p>ROFL. This is exactly the point. This is prestige not based on any actual DATA, but on FAMILIARITY. “Oh - a rich person I know sent his kid there. It must be good! I don’t know anyone who sent his kid to (Harvey Mudd, Haverford, fill in the blank). It must not be very good!”</p>

<p>Is there no status in creativity, in thinking outside the box, in finding hidden gems, in finding just the right fit? Apparently not. Everyone should strive for the same things. Mass conformity. Wow. How “prestigious.” LOL. Not.</p>

[ewho]

<p>

Is there no status in creativity, in thinking outside the box, in finding hidden gems, in finding just the right fit?

By doing so, you could be right until you are wrong, and it could be a fatal one. You need to have a incremental change as nobody has the knowledge to make every move right, and it also needs the act of God to help you reach there.</p>

[Schmaltz]

<p>“Simply because you only have to choose one school.”</p>

<p>If you see a U.S. Army soldier in a dress uniform, you can tell from all of his badges, ribbons, medals, and patches where he’s been, what he’s done, and how well he’s done them.</p>

<p>In Toronto you will see people of all ages wearing U of Toronto varsity-style jackets that have nothing to do with athletics. But from the jackets and their patches, you can tell what their degree was in and when they graduated. </p>

<p>I think the whole college prestige issue has gotten complicated enough that it’s time we borrowed a little bit from the Army and the U of Toronto. I propose that people wear sweatshirts (hooded or not) with the name of their undergrad school on the front. The logo of any master’s degree schools would go on the right sleeve. The name of any doctorate or law degree school on the back. On the left sleeve would be the logo of any schools the person is proud to have been accepted to but did not attend. </p>

<p>Such sweatshirts would be sure-fire ice-breakers at parties or on airplanes. “Hey, you got into Dartmouth and went to Notre Dame instead? So did my brother-in-law!!” Obviously the coolest people would drive around in the summer with their left arm hanging out the window so everbody could see the big crimson “H” on the left sleeve. If there’s anything cooler than having gone to Harvard, it’s having turned down Harvard.</p>

[dimsum123]

<p>

@Pizzagirl

Quote:
Asian internationals in-the-know consider Brown much more prestigious than Berkeley. Some of the richest Asians have sent their children there. I personally know the son of a leading beverage supplier in Hong Kong and the daughter of one of the founders of the Singaporean telecommunications industry. Both went to Brown. </p>

<p>ROFL. This is exactly the point. This is prestige not based on any actual DATA, but on FAMILIARITY. “Oh - a rich person I know sent his kid there. It must be good! I don’t know anyone who sent his kid to (Harvey Mudd, Haverford, fill in the blank). It must not be very good!”

</p>

<p>Huh??? I never said that Brown is prestigious BECAUSE rich Asian internationals think so. I was merely making an observation, from my personal experience, about the opinions of a small group of people that I know. Stop making up stuff and putting words in my mouth. </p>

<p>Unlike you, I am not presumptuous enough to generalize about the thoughts and feelings of a whole race of people made up of hundreds of ethnicities spread across an entire continent. At least not based on what I read in a college discussion forum on the internet. Now that’s FUNNY!!!</p>

[dimsum123]

<p>

@Pizzagirl

Is there no status in creativity, in thinking outside the box, in finding hidden gems, in finding just the right fit? Apparently not. Everyone should strive for the same things. Mass conformity. Wow. How “prestigious.” LOL. Not.

</p>

<p>You have no idea how I made my college choice or even what it was. In fact, you don’t know anything about me. Because unlike you, I don’t feel the need to broadcast my educational and employment background to random strangers on the internet.</p>

<p>Oh, and consulting is such a non-conformist career. How ever did you come up with that? You must be a one-of-a-kind “genius” or something. Kudos to your rebellion without a cause!</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>I’m not a Bain / McKinsey type consultant. I developed an area of expertise after being in the corporate world and now do consulting in a very small specialty. You know – a “boutique” consultancy.</p>

[Pizzagirl]

<p>

Is there no status in creativity, in thinking outside the box, in finding hidden gems, in finding just the right fit? </p>

<p>By doing so, you could be right until you are wrong, and it could be a fatal one.

</p>

<p>“Fatal”? Well, I guess I won’t count on you to find that little out-of-the-way hidden gem of a restaurant or vacation spot. It might be fatal!</p>