<p>They've had to spend a lot recently on buying and building dorms in order to be able to attract students (NYU now guarantees four years of dorm space for every undergrad).</p>
<p>Kelsmom,
Yeah, S1's HS was much better this year about laying out the difficulties of getting into top schools this year, but they were still pretty clueless about the FA end. I think some GCs just don't want to know that much personal info. Our GC was very knowledgeable, but specifically did not want to talk money. "You all can discuss that at home."</p>
<p>The parents who get on CC and use EFC calculators are already light years ahead of the game. DH was convinced we wouldn't get any FA and told me a couple of times not to bother sending letters about our medical expenses. Fortunately, I ignored him. :) Our PROFILE numbers were lower than FAFSA. While S's merit awards were greater than any FA we would have received, it did give us a clue as to whether/how the schools will look at things when S2 heads off to college in two years.</p>
<p>I was also stunned that the GCs didn't tell the kids (and parents) to pay more attention to the Distinguished Scholar award. One must have over a certain GPA at the end of first semester junior year -- and if one is a NMSF, one becomes an automatic finalist -- $3,000/yr. for four years to any in-state school, public or private. All the kids had to do was sign a form and put their grades on an Excel template. Can't tell you how many kids I know who never applied because they assumed it would be too much bother -- and then wound up at a school in-state. $12K!!! With very little effort! S did it and he was pretty sure at that point he wasn't going in-state. But one never knows...and I'd be spittin' mad if he hadn't turned it in and then went in-state. That's a nice chunk of change.</p>
<p>Many high school GC's still sing the happy songs about financial aid. How it never hurts to try, etc, etc. The reality of what is involved in getting aid is quite different and a shock to those who undergo the process. The whole idea that EFC by FAFSA is a totally useless number (not quite, really, but no guarantees) except for eligibility for government funds really comes down hard.</p>
<p>Hey, Fuzzylogic, you are only ignorant in the pure sense of the word ... you really don't know this stuff (who does, in your shoes?). The gc's, on the other hand, SHOULD know! Ignorance on their part is not pure & innocent ... in my opinion, it's a form of professional neglect to not know basic info. They are supposed to be helping you!</p>
<p>I agree, Kelsmom. I don't understand why this disconnect exists. I know at sons' private school, the college counselors are very much aware even though they do not deal with the issue. The school out sources a financial aid consultant for those who want to discuss the matter, thereby separating the college search process with the financial need process. But having met with both sides of the process, I can tell you that there are enormous gaps there. The only reason it works at this particular school is because the GCs are personally very well informed as to which colleges give aid and the packages that can be expected. They know this because they are not paid that much but get tuition free from the private school putting them in the category of having kids wanting the same range of choice as their peers, with parents that do not have the income to pay for those choices. </p>
<p>I was told by the GC,that the school does not want teachers, gcs, anyone involved in the financial workings of the families. It is not their business. Also when it comes to financial aid forms, a lot of sticky business come out in competing the forms, and financial advice in terms of moving assets, and other such things are often needed to best address the issues. These are all matters that the school does not want to involve its employees. You can see that an accountant is often needed, or a financial consultant, and the college counselors are not trained in those roles. Also it can be insulting to be picking colleges in light of a family's financial circumstances. It becomes a thin line to walk. Yet the financial consultants often know nothing about which colleges tend to give aid. I know many friends who were told that the state flagship of their state was a good backup when the cost of going there is not cheap, just less than than privates, and they give very, very financial aid or merit money at all, even to the top kids, something many of us already know. If you have a child with good stats and have an EFC that is close to the state costs, you may well do much better at a private school that tends to give full need, and certainly a school that has merit monies to boot. Unless your state schools have the funds, you may well pay more there.</p>
<p>Oddly enough, the place I got the best info was at one of those for fee financial aid seminars that are panned loudly. I did not sign up for anything once there, and just listened and took their materials. They had a lot of good tips that you cannot get out of an accountant or financial advisor. I did not go into the paid counseling part of the process, as it did not have much promise for our family, but I am of the mind that families who have know clue could get a lot out of this. It is impossible to get this information from one place. It has taken me years to get to where I am, and I am no guru on the subject but am amazed at how many misstatements I catch from those who are supposed to be experts.</p>
<p>The one common thread through all of this is that scholarships, financial aid (like grants) are VERY uneven and seem almost arbitrary and capricious. Kids with similar family incomes (and EFC's) get vastly different aid offers.</p>
<p>It really makes you wonder.</p>
<p>Then there are the people who have hidden assets...grandparents who can pay for the education by writing a check and not even blink, but who look like they have greater need because the parents don't show much income.....I have seen it with my own eyes: grandparents paying a students credit card bills, paying the students PRIVATE PREP SCHOOL TUITION for years upon years, buying the student a new car for birthdays/graduation...on and on....and then here comes the huge financial aid offer from Prestigious Univ. Its enough to make you scream!</p>
<p>I know a prestigious school in the Northeast which is Division III NCAA which means no athletic scholarships per se...but they get around it and give the kids HUGE merit scholarships and financial aid....even though they dont otherwise qualify.....the kid who was admitted was smart, but below the 50% of admitted students stats.....</p>
<p>nocousin, I completely agree. Additionally, if you are the one that helped financially for the last 15 years with an ailing parent and not the other way around, but you are no longer helping during the years kiddo is in college bc that parent passed away, it is not on the radar. If grandma went into the nursing home the year you have a college freshman, that is possibly a "special circumstance". </p>
<p>As far as merit awards, schools can give their money to whomever they want to give it to. If they need a tuba player, the tuba player with a 3.1 might get a larger merit award than the student with an interest in debating. If a school is trying to become more nationally recognized, the school in Oregon might give a larger merit scholarship to the student from Maine, even if the student is an average enrolled student at that school. It might be a way to attract that student and offset the plane fares home.</p>
<p>Can't say anything about Div III schools, because I just do not know.</p>
<p>Yes, that's one way to put it, but what the schools are really doing is acting in their own self-interest, as they should and must. The reasons for what they do are not necessarily visible to us outsiders, but maintaining and enhancing their reputations is crucial for insuring a steady stream of applicants. A school may indeed need a tuba player, or a newspaper editor, or a fullback, so they try to attract the students they need. Those who are admitted, and are sometimes offered the best aid, are the ones the school wants the most. Don't look for schools to be "fair" in this process; fairness is not part of the calculation.</p>
<p>Our S was accepted to Notre Dame. We received virtually no aid. They offer no academic scholarships. We qualify for unsub Stafford Loan $3500 oops now increased to $5500. He received a $1,250 scholarship which was sent directly to ND and they took away our $800 Perkins Loan. </p>
<p>We own our own company and make a good income, but also put in 60-70 hours per week. Our 30 year old home still has a large mortgage due to improvements we have had to make. Upper middle class - make too much for aid, and too little to pay our own way. What to do? Go in debt or go to the local U which is a very good school, but not ND. How does an 18 year old really understand debt?</p>
<p>Well we decided to give him his shot at ND. Play it one year at a time. Are we crazy, stupid? Both? Any words of encouragement?</p>
<p>Well, we are using Stafford and home equity to help pay for it. We consider college an investment, and find going into debt reasonable. So I don't think you're crazy or stupid! :)</p>
<p>If you believe that a college education at a particular place offers good return on investment, you pay as much as you can afford, even if you borrow. If you don't believe that, maybe you don't go to college at all.</p>
<p>I generally avoid loans and I don't particularly like to borrow money to fund an investment unless it's a sure thing. College Educations aren't sure things. But the collective willingness of students and parents to take out loans for college raises the price of college and borrowing for everyone. We saw the same thing in the mortgage bubble, and the stock market bubbles.</p>
<p>There are times when I look at politicians "making college more affordable" with a big question mark when they offer higher loan limits or loan this or loan that.</p>
<p>Nocousin, there are places on the financial aid forms where you are supposed to list 'other cash gifts'. If Grandma is writing the check, you are supposed to disclose that, and your 'need' aid would be reduced accordingly.</p>
<p>Grandmom paying tuitions or giving gifts directly is often a gray area. So are 529 set up by grandparents. Or "loans" given by relatives. Or loans taken and then repaid afterwards. Lots of ways around the grandma rules.</p>
<p>Gotta read the rules and make sure you don't run astray of them. There are ways to give, and ways not to give. Just finished posting to a kid telling her it is better for her to pay her parents back for their costs with her earnings so that they can open a savings account in their name for her for graduation so it is not hit with the student assessment towards the EFC.</p>
<p>"Treasury bills and stocks in the students name are still reportable as assets and are assessed at the same % as cash."</p>
<p>Why not give them to the parents then?
How about gold or platinum eagles (they make great gifts)?</p>
<p>It seems to me that it would be in the best interests of colleges and alumni for the college to pay most of the costs of education and then the alumni gives back the money several years after graduation. The students and parents don't have to pay with after-tax dollars and then they can pay back the money while taking a charitable contribution deduction. That would make a case for making the costs of a college education deductible. Which is reasonable as it is a cost of earning a living.</p>