Lets say a kid wants to go to IB/Finance/Consulting and has good stats. What is a better choice:
A: Full pay at a top private like Northwestern, Cornell, Dartmouth or USC for $200,000.
B: In-state tuition at a good public COB like UIUC, IU, UT, or PSU with the $120,000 +/- saved for a potential MBA/MS degree.
Advanced degrees almost always pay off.
That is only partially true.
@Zinhead
MBAs are usually done after some work experience. Even if one were to get admitted to an MBA program straight out of UG, having work experience would allow to truly make the most of the MBA recruiting resources (usually). Based on conversations I have had with recruiters and people who work in IB/Finance/Consulting (I actually interned in a Buy-side firm), there are two major paths to “break into” IB/Finance/Consulting.
Elite UG school/program - after this, you enter into an “Analyst Program”
Elite Business School (MBA programs) - after this, you enter into an “Associate Program”
Elite Business school admissions are not, in any way, guaranteed. Things like UG GPA and GMAT are taken into consideration, but also, importantly, work experience. To get into a top MBA program nowadays, impressive work history is a essentially a prerequisite.
There are also other ways in (banks and finance firms needs their rocket scientist PhDs for their complex math and designing/implementing their products, etc.), but I am not sure if this would apply for many people reading this thread.
Also, some top Masters programs in financial engineering or financial math can do the trick. Some of the reputed MFin programs which are very quantitative can also do the trick (like MIT MFin and Princeton MFin).
@yikesyikesyikes - I should append my question by adding that the $120,000 can be saved for an MBA/MS degree or anything else after a few years in the workforce. For the record, I found my MS more than paid for itself, but that was 25 years ago.
My firm is a boutique consulting firm that has many Ph.D’s and M.S. grads. Granted we are an Electrical Engineering/Computer Science shop who rely heavily on schools we know that excel in those two areas of competency. We do not focus on undergrad credentials.
That said, I would also refer the original question to read Frank Bruni’s book, “Where you go is not who you will be”.
I have to agree with Yikes. From what I have learned from my son and his friends,who are fortunate enough to have gotten those type jobs upon graduation, is that the undergrad program is extremely important. Very difficult to land that position if not coming from a target school. They also have mentioned that the MBA is only important if it comes from an elite program. There are no guarantees about acceptance there after working a few years either.Best chance is to go to a school that has a record of grads gaining employment in those industries.
One in the hand is better than two in the air.
How are you getting in-state tuition in four different states? A lot of this depends on which “top” schools you are actually accepted to and which state you are really in-state for. It cannot be answered (well) with generalities.
@fleishmo6 would Northwestern be considered a target for these elite consulting firms? What would some targets be?
Not that familiar with Northwestern. Google top target schools and also speak to the folks at the career center at Northwestern and see where their grads go upon graduation.
It is a purely theoretical question. UIUC, IU, UT, and PSU were chosen randomly because they are large public schools with solid business programs. A host of other quality public schools like UW, UNC, or OSU could have fit the bill.
Northwestern, Cornell, Dartmouth and USC were chosen because they are schools that kids in the top 25 percent of the “good public” school applicant pool might also apply to and get into and they have good business/economics departments. You can switch these out with Brown, Rice, Emory, Notre Dame, or the like.
I avoided listing HYPSM or Penn/Wharton because that would tip the scales toward the private schools, or Michigan/UCB because that would tip the scales to the publics.
40 years ago my professor-dad said that there were only 5 or 10 MBAs schools that matter. 40 years later I agree.
My little wall streeter thinks he will get by in life with just an elite UG degree.
A lot can happen in UG. He almost accepted an offer to get on a PhD track for philosophy.
Against my advice, he transferred to an elite UG. It was a smart move. He had multiple offers before winter break of his senior year. An elite UG matters in finance but he encountered several applicants from other schools along the way.
Which business schools would make your list? @Burgermeister
SugarlessCandy – Search for LinkedIn’s top undregraduate wall street feeders. Also search Wall Street Oasis. You will find all of the usual suspects.
Use LinkedIn to evaluate smaller LACs by observing the fate of their graduates.
As far as smaller LACs the NESCAC schools do well with placing their grads
@zinhead I attended Top Scholars weekend at the other USC, the Carolina one. There was a presentation done by a current Top Scholar senior who is majoring in international business, global supply chain management, finance, has already earned his Six Sigma green belt, is part of their IBA cohort ( http://moore.sc.edu/academicprograms/undergraduate/majorsoffered/internationalbusiness/optionsoverviews/ibatrackchile.aspx ), and has had numerous internships both here and in Chile. He has been recruited by several high profile companies. Amazing young man in a program that offers a lot of excellent opportunities.
@jaecha: Yes.
MC targets would be Ivies/equivalents + Haas, Ross, McIntire, Stern, WashU’s Olin and Emory’s Goizueta.
@Zinhead I think for ibanking, finance, consulting Dartmouth, Brown, Cornell, NW are still a better choice. UG does matter a lot for these types of jobs. And while these schools are no HYPSM or Penn, Columbia in terms of finance/consulting recruiting, they do almost as well and definitely much better than the other schools you mention.
I think it’s going to depend, right? Who’s paying the $200,000? Is this wealthy parents for whom it would be a drop in the bucket, or is the student going to be borrowing the entire cost? Because if the student has to bear the brunt of the costs, even the best i-banking job isn’t going to pay enough to make repaying those loans comfortable.
If the UIUC, IU, UT or PSU kid works for 3 years at a good firm and gets into a top MBA program later, then they may end up in the same place as a kid who went to Dartmouth or Cornell for undergrad and got a top MBA later. The question is whether or not the UIUC et al. students are getting the kind of post-graduation jobs that allow them to attend elite MBA programs.
Poets & Quants’ [analysis of feeder schools](Poets&Quants For Undergrads - Top Feeder Schools To Elite MBA Programs) indicate that UT, UIUC, Penn State and Indiana are allfeeder schools to top MBA programs, as well as other public universities like Virginia, Michigan, UW-Madison, UNC. They may not send as many as as, say, Cornell or Dartmouth - but there are multiple reasons for that, some of which have little to do with MBA program admissions. UIUC and Texas are both in the top 30 feeder schools to elite MBA programs.
Assume the non-wealthy parents for whom it would not be a drop in the bucket would be paying based on which path would provide the greatest ROI.