I’m applying to really selective schools and just had my teachers submit their letters of recommendation. I have great relationships with both of my teachers, so I’m confident about one of them, but unsure about the other one (I’m worried his letter might be general but he loved me when I had him). Could that letter lower my chances of being accepted even if other parts of my application are really good?
At super-selective schools, whatever is the worst part of your application will be the most important part. In an applicant pool with lots of strong applicants, a “defect” is an easy way to pull an applicant out of the running.
Everything is important at the very selective colleges.
Don’t second guess every part of your application – you can drive yourself crazy. It sounds like you thoughtfully chose your two teachers so you should assume they will both provide good LORs.,
Both.
While both are extremely important, as these are items that create distinctions between high stats kids, I have been told on numerous occasions by Yale AO’s that LoR’s can really push a kid to the top of the pile. I think AO’s understand that essays are subject to adult/professional “massaging” to say the least.
I actually disagree. The essays are YOUR voice. It is an opportunity for the admissions committee to hear directly from you. Your goals, your background, your approach.
They know there is huge variability in letters of recommendation. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t get the best letter writer - who writes a great letter and knows you well. But how well THEY write it is out of your control.
^I was not expressing my opinion but relaying what was told to me directly by senior AO’s from Yale. You can believe what you want to believe, and maybe some AO’s from other schools are different. However, there is a real consciousness in admissions offices these days about how much outside, often paid help, certain students are getting.
A great letter won’t make up for a poor essay. (That’s on you.) A great essay may not outweigh blah LoRs. Or the wrong letter writers.
OP may be reaching high. For that, everything matters.
@BKSquared would you happen to know (or have a rough estimate) how much time Yale AO’s (or really any other AO) spend in reading LoR’s? I was just wondering since they have to read over 40,000 applications within 3 months…
Can’t worry about things outside your control, stay focused on what you can still influence.
@luvscience29 , this was what a recent Yale AO divulged in a blog for a commercial counseling site that we cannot link because of the ToS:
"At Yale, and I would say at most selective similar schools, applications are read geographically. I would cover the northern California region, which meant that I read all the applications from northern California. The reason the admissions offices like to do this is because it allows the admissions officer to dive deep and get a sense of that area and understand the context. Of course, you can’t know everything, but to understand at best what the context is that your applicants are coming from.
From there, at least when I was at Yale, I would do a first read. There would be a first read, there would also be a second read, and there would be rankings that we would tag that were associated with extracurriculars, your academics, and your overall rating.
Then towards the end of the admissions season, we would go into a committee which really could range from just a few people to upwards of say, roughly a dozen. That admissions committee is comprised of the admissions officers, more senior admissions officers, sometimes we’d bring in staff or professors. We would go through the list of applicants in the admission officers’ area and present the candidates we thought had a strong chance of getting in. While the admissions committee does see the numbers and rankings of all the different applicants, for the most part we would present in detail the kids that we thought had a good shot of being admitted. We would take a vote at the end whether a student should be admitted or not. That’s the overall process."
To fill in the some of the blanks, there are about 26 AO’s at Yale, and I believe the first reads are fairly evenly distributed. They go through about 6,000 applications in the early round and another 30,000 in the RD round. So each AO has about 1,100-1,200 applications to go through in RD. About 6,000 make it to Committee. I am guessing at the amount of time, but if we assume roughly 200 hours per AO allocated for the first read, that’s roughly 10 minutes each app. I would also assume not every read gets the same amount of attention or time, and that there are app’s that get tossed pretty quickly.
@BKSquared wow, thank you for going in-depth about the admissions process. I’ve been so lost as I’m the oldest child in my family and thus we are going through this process for the first time. This really cleared things up for me, as no one has ever explained to me how the application readings go. Now, I feel a lot less anxious and confused.
The top colleges do bring on extra, seasoned readers, to share the load. First cut for RD (by AOs) reduces the total apps substantially. After that, overall, multiple readers on an app. It’s not just the AO re-reading, though he/she will come back to review others’ comments, get a final sense, before committee. Sometimes, now that they’ve gone through more of their area pool, comparing applicants.
Call it 10-20 min per read. Depends. Remember, that includes think time and writing notes. All this is reason to nail your app, know what the app should show and what not, so not to have issues they question. There’s no time to tap into ESP or empathy or assume.
@luvscience29 A good resource, and one that is an entertaining read is the “Gatekeepers” by Jaques Steinberg which goes through his experience as an AO at Wesleyan. While it goes back 20 years, I think the process has not changed that much. The Harvard litigation has also shown a light on the process at Harvard. Here is a lengthy article from the Crimson. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/10/29/how-to-get-in-to-harvard/
Just be aware the volume of apps and competition has changed a lot. And constraints on admissions budgets. Just over 20 years ago, Harvard had about half the apps.