<p>A student with a 50% of tuition scholarship offer at UVA Law or no help at all at Harvard Law? Money is becoming a problem. She wants to practice in a big firm, not teach (at least at this point).
Which is wiser? Thanks.</p>
<p>To my mind, UVA is one of those state schools that is so "up there" (Berkeley, U. Mich., etc) that it has national stature. With tuition being what it is, the partnership track lengthening and becoming more and more uncertain, and attorney dissatisfaction as high as it is, I would tell her if she were my daughter to take the scholarship offer and not look back. I think she will arrive at the same destination.</p>
<p>Wow, 50% scholarship is awesome. If $ is a problem, you don't really have to think twice about it. I think, like CD mentioned, UVA is pretty high up there at the top. If your wife values having a Harvard degree over that of UVA for over $20,000, she should go for Harvard. Have her do a cost-benefit analysis.</p>
<p>I'd choose Harvard</p>
<p>cmaher, why? I understand that is your preference, but what are your reasons?</p>
<p>UVA and Harvard cost the same before scholarships at around 130k.</p>
<p>After the 50% scholarship, UVA will cost 65k and Harvard will remain 130k.</p>
<p>Is 65k in savings really worth going to UVA over Harvard?</p>
<p>After graduating from Harvard one would expect to make at least 100k a year, in a few years the difference would be made up. Of course a UVA graduate would make almost as much as a Harvard grad, but Harvard has the name and prestige to open doors up. UVA might not have this.</p>
<p>Plus you can tell people you went to Harvard Law.</p>
<p>I think I would lean towards cmaher. This seems to me to fall under the philosophy of 'no regrets'. Money is important, but to me, what is far more important is peace of mind. If she went to Uva, then while she might indeed end up at the same place as she would have had she went to Harvard, I have a feeling that she would always have the question of 'What if I had gone to Harvard' lingering in her mind. Now obviously it's a matter of personal preference, and clearly a 60k scholarship is nothing to sneeze at, but by the same token, I would gladly pay 60k to not have to wonder 'what if' for the rest of my life.</p>
<p>So I think the real question is, what is she able to do while retaining peace of mind. If she can turn down Harvard Law and still sleep at night, then she should do that. But if she can't, then she ought to go. You don't want to be spending the rest of your life wondering what might have been. If she happens to have the psychological makeup such that she won't be doing that, then fair enough, take UVa and the scholarship.</p>
<p>BTW, this is my daughter, not my wife ;) Anyway, she's been at Harvard for 4 yrs as an undergrad, and sometimes she's underwhelmed by their cavalier approach to students, not to mention the real state of their dorms (look great outside, falling apart inside) and therefore her living conditions. UVA offers her an apt for what a parking space costs in Cambridge, so overall the cost of living seems to be another big money issue in their favor.
She's also gotten into NYU, but no money there. We're waiting on Penn, where money may appear. That would really complicate the decision.
Your inputs really are appreciated. I know what works in med school, but I have no clue what works in law school. Thanks all!!</p>
<p>With her Harvard undergrad degree, I would probably go with UVA law school, simply because it gives two different regional exposures; she already has the cachet of the Harvard name. UVA is a top law school as well and I don't believe she is giving up anything going there. Had she gone to UMiami or Wm & Mary for undergrad, I would lean the other way.</p>
<p>The way the economy is going, it is not easy to come up with $65K, unless you are able to help her with the payment. My niece has a staggering $160K in loans for med school--she is graduating this spring, and is now thinking about the process of actually repaying this money. There was a time when you could easily repay that money as a doctor, as you may well know, but now the pay scales are not that high and she still has her internship and residency period where she is not going to be making much money. But medicine at least has guarantees for employment and income that law just does not have. I know a few top law school graduates who are NOT making the money they had planned. A few by choice--constitutional law does not pay, another married and decided that a highpowered lawfirm where she was employed was not compatible with family life, and is working a a great place, that just does not pay much when you factor the loan repayments. </p>
<p>Also didn't JFK have that Harvard BA/ UVA JD combo?</p>
<p>JFK started college at Princeton, transferred to Harvard, and did a term of graduate school at Stanford. He wasn't a lawyer.</p>
<p>Bobby and Ted both went from Harvard undergrad to UVA law.</p>
<p>Sorry, got JFK and RFK mixed up--did not know about Edward Kennedy. Do know that a Harvard/UVA combo is quite impressive.</p>
<p>If your daughter is aiming for the big law firm life, she'll have decent odds of landing a position at either school. If she wants more flexibility in her career path, most people find that less remunerative paths are impracticable when faced with a heavy debt load.</p>
<p>Exactly what Graybeard said. Also Dr., I would call UVA's career center and ask for the list of lawfirms that interview on campus. Match that to the list of firms that do on campus interviews at Harvard and the others schools she is considering. My guess is that there will be a HUGE overlap on those lists.</p>
<p>But, if the "what ifs" and "ego gratification" are more important than to her than simply getting a good lega education and a job at at top lawfirm, then the answer is clear -- take the seat at HLS. </p>
<p>I just don't happen to think it necessary for her to achieve her goals.</p>
<p>I would also add that in my day, and I expect that it is the same today, the top law firms interview at many law schools, not just HLS, YLS, and the top 10. The difference between the hiring process from each law school is how deep into the class a firm is willing to go. Obviously, a firm might be willing to go deeper into Harvard's class than a lesser school. So, the question is "how deep into the class did the same law firm go?" The career center at all of the law schools can give you those numbers.</p>
<p>I'm with Concerneddad. </p>
<p>All Harvard Law School graduates are not guaranteed a job at all, and certainly not one that pays $ 100 K per year. UVA is a fine law school nationally and one of the best in the Washington DC area. A high standing in the graduating class at either school should give one a good chance at a first-year associate position in a major law firm or an academic career (now or later). She and the Doc will sleep better with a smaller debt load.</p>
<p>This is a tough issue. The fact that she's an undergrad at Harvard, and sounds sick of it, makes it tougher. </p>
<p>Generally, I'd take HLS. The fact is that you pretty much ARE guaranteed a $100K a year job from HLS these days. While UVA is also obviously a top school, those in the bottom half do not have quite the same security as those from HLS. Therefore, I would not personally sell that security just for 1/2 tuition.</p>
<p>If she's really sick of Harvard, though, then UVA is certainly an attractive alternative. Very different environment, with perhaps the best QOL of any top law school besides maybe Stanford. If she's leaning that way, she should float her Harvard acceptance with the UVA people and see if she can get even more money. (She may also be able to get instate status after a year, though I'm unsure about this.) </p>
<p>I would not take NYU without money or Penn with money over either of these two options. </p>
<p>Given that she'll be making good money from either school, she should really be financing this herself with loans anyway. Maybe that will help her decide. </p>
<p>P.S.: A Harvard B.A. / UVa J.D. is in fact quite impressive, unless your name is Kennedy, Bush, etc. ;^)</p>
<p>Haha. I hope he lets us know how it all turned out :-). BTW, if I remember correctly, UVA is ranked 9, Harvard 2 by US News. Yes, I know, don't put a lot of stock into rankings :-).</p>
<p>Thanks for all the advice!! The wild card still out there is Stanford, which she applied to RD, so we won't know for a while.</p>
<p>Does Stanford (prob w/o $$) trump all the other options?</p>
<p>Chicago, Mich, Cornell & Columbia are also RD. She already got into Georgetown but we've discarded that one.</p>
<p>There's little or no drop-off from HLS to Stanford. Her classes would be much smaller at Stanford, and the Bay Area is a wonderful setting. If she has that choice, the determining factor will probably be where she wants to live. (Keep in mind, too, that although there is substantial overlap between the firms interviewing at the two schools, she'd see a somewhat higher percentage of west coast firms in the recruitment office at Stanford, and a somewhat higher percentage of east coast firms at HLS.)</p>
<p>I think it would depend on where she wants to practice. If she wants to stay in Mass., then HLS would be the way to go. Boston has a small legal market, and it would be much easier to go from HLS to that market than UVA. </p>
<p>I do agree with the rationale that UVA would give her a different geographical connection, which is remarkably important in getting a job. If she stays in Boston, it will seem like she wants to practice there - even though that may not be the case. </p>
<p>Finally, cost of living. I live within a relatively short drive from UVA, and I've lived in Somerville (adjacent to Cambridge). Let me tell you - the cost of living down here is so much less than in Boston. I chose the school that I'm at because it is so much less expensive than a city school. Over time, the $5k-ish increase that it will cost to stay in Boston will add up. Just for some numbers: I shared 4-bedroom apts. with 3 friends, for $650 and $725 each in Boston. They were old (basically 1940s construction) and not great. Some of the rooms were really small; one bathroom was falling apart. Parking at my alma mater cost $400/year. Now, I'm sharing a 2-bedroom, 2-bath apt., built two years ago, with one girl - and we are paying $425/month each. It's a much nicer place, and honestly - roughly the same size as the places in Somerville, even though there are only two of us sharing it. It's of a size and quality that just doesn't exist up there. My campus parking pass costs $50/year - which is a huge increase from last year's $25. Health insurance, paying yourself, is $264/year in Boston, whereas I'm getting health and dental for $108 in Va. Car insurance is half of what it usually is.</p>
<p>Being a Va. resident, I can really say with some confidence that she probably won't get in-state status within a year. Usually, if you can do that, they will let you know - check out the UConn Law website. There is a pretty long list of requirements, and living there for a year <em>with intention to stay indefinitely</em> is merely one of them. Obviuosly, they are wary of people who come down and then try to get a cheap education.</p>