Which Ivy for Physics?

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[quote]
Get three or four publications under your belt, they don't even need to be first authorships, and you're in good position for just about any grad school's admission

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Heck just do ANY research and you're ahead of the curve. Although it'd be great for us to get three or four I can't think of anyone who's done more than one or two papers... just a touch of perspective for anyone.
Also I forgot it earlier but if you think a school is great for grad school (like Harvard undoubtedly is) it's actually not the best of ideas to apply there for undergrad. This is because very often they are hesitant to accept undergrads into their graduate programs and some have rules to bar you from doing it at all! The idea is this world is a huge place and there are a lot of great schools and you won't be as well-rounded if you stay someplace forever. So let me reemphasize that you shouldn't choose ANY school for its grad school as there's utterly no reason and you might surprise yourself and realize you don't really want to go to grad school in that specific field anyway.</p>

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<p>I know many, many people who went straight from H undergrad into PhD programs there. Harvard undergrads make up the largest single group at the Graduate School of Arts & Sciences, just as they do in every other Harvard graduate and professional school.</p>

<p>That's not what I've heard! Everyone I talk to (including Harvard's undergrad astronomy tutor, Professor Bryan Gaensler) says that, as stargirl said, graduate programs (at least in astro), especially at a school like Harvard, very rarely accept people who did undergrad at the same institution, simply because they want you to leave. And to be honest, I'd probably want to go somewhere else anyway. 8+ years is a bit excessive at one place, especially when there are so many other great schools out there, and especially if my plans place a significant possibility (as they do) of my taking a post-doc and/or professorship at Harvard in the future. I figure someplace like Caltech, Cambridge, Princeton, etc. would be just as lovely for a Ph.D. program in astro, if I go to Harvard as an undergrad.</p>

<p>By the way, stargirl, what do you think of my plan to do an astro undergrad at Harvard and go somewhere else for grad school? My reasoning goes, if I get accepted it's the best all-around school for me, as I definitely want a strong base in things besides just science, and with CfA, etc., has a great astro program and plenty of opportunities for research, which I definitely want to continue as an undergrad. My mentor, however (who, on this subject, went to the same school--UPenn--for both undergrad and graduate astro studies) doesn't like the idea; she doesn't think very highly of CfA in terms of community, she doesn't think I'll fit in at Harvard (I disagree, it's a pretty diverse place now, no?) and she thinks that once I start my studies I won't want to do "other stuff" (philosophy, etc.) anymore...so another astronomer's opinion would be lovely :):)</p>

<p>uh MIT and CalTech are gonna have the best physics programs in the country</p>

<p>Although astrophysics is a slightly different animal and MIT is not known, I believe, for having the deepest and most extensive program and research opportunities in the field...</p>

<p>I think you'd be dissapointed doing astronomy at Columbia. I live here in the city, and you can usually only see one star (if you're lucky) because of all the light polution. I'd imagine doing astronomy at a place with a large telescope (like I've seen on top of buildings at many schools I've visited) would be more interesting.</p>

<p>GuitarManARS- if you want to go to Harvard because it's a good place for you then all the more power to you and I wish you the best of luck! You don't sound like you are but just make sure you are not applying "because it's Harvard" or anything like that because astronomers and physicists are down to Earth people and it's what's inside your head that counts. The sentiment that you can go to undergrad to many a school is very apt in stuff like physics and astronomy; I wouldn't speak ill of many of the state schools for their programs.
As for doing other stuff, I've noticed that if you want to do other things in college you will make time for it, and you will also discover the difference between an actual minor in a subject and just taking the classes that interest you (regardless of where you go!). I mean if you want to be top-notch in this field you have to work really hard at it so there will be sacrafices along the way but if you really care about something you'll make it through alright. :D
Another note on grad school: also remember that who you want to work with becomes a much bigger deal than pretty much anything else so within limits it's difficult to say where you will end up in life at this stage. One professor of mine summed it up perfectly when I went to go talk to him: "so what do you think you want to do?" So just have fun, learn your physics, and with luck I'll see you on Mauna Kea in a few. ;)</p>

<p>JackJackson: astronomers at places like Columbia don't actually do astronomy in the city. Instead the universities have telescopes on faraway mountains in places like Chile and Arizona and they go out a few times a year to use them! Astronomy is, for the record, about a week's worth of data taking followed by six months of data analysis...</p>

<p>Jack--I live on Long Island and I actually worked at AMNH. Columbia is very low on my list but not because of light pollution ;) Being able to observe right there is an impediment to hobby astronomy more than it is to scientific astronomy.</p>

<p>stargirl--I hope I'm not applying for the name. I think I'm not, I see so many things I love about it, but I don't really know if that's lurking behind somewhere in my mind. I don't know, I figure I'll take my EA decision from Harvard and send out some other apps, and decide when I can :)</p>

<p>Ranking of Faculty quality for Astrophysics and Astronomy (1993) Graduate programs only</p>

<ol>
<li> California Institute Technology 9.44 4.91
2. Princeton University 8.75 4.79</li>
<li> University of California - Berkeley 7.95 4.65
4. Harvard University 7.03 4.49</li>
<li> University of Chicago 6.28 4.36</li>
<li> University of California - Santa Cruz 6.00 4.31</li>
<li> University of Arizona 4.79 4.10</li>
<li> Massachusetts Institute of Technology 4.22 4.00
9. Cornell University 4.10 3.98</li>
<li> University of Texas at Austin 2.21 3.65</li>
<li> University of Hawaii at Manoa 1.92 3.60</li>
<li> University of Colorado 1.57 3.54</li>
<li> University of Illinois at Urbana - Champaign 1.52 3.53</li>
<li> University of Wisconsin - Madison 1.12 3.46
15. Yale University 0.25 3.31</li>
<li> University of California - Los Angeles 0.02 3.27</li>
<li> University of Virginia -0.20 3.23
18. Columbia University -0.37 3.20</li>
<li> University of Maryland College Park -1.11 3.07</li>
<li> University of Massachusetts at Amherst -1.29 3.04</li>
</ol>

<p>Physics</p>

<p>1. Harvard University 11.45 4.91
2. Princeton University 11.34 4.89

3. Massachusetts Institute of Technology 11.23 4.87
3. University of California - Berkeley 11.23 4.87
5. California Institute Technology 10.90 4.81
6. Cornell University 10.57 4.75
7. University of Chicago 10.25 4.69
8. University of Illinois at Urbana - Champaign 10.08 4.66
9. Stanford University 9.37 4.53
10. University of California - Santa Barbara 8.82 4.43
11. University of Texas at Austin 8.28 4.33
12. Columbia University 7.84 4.25
13. Yale University 7.62 4.21
14. University of Washington 7.56 4.20
15. University of California - Los Angeles 7.46 4.18
16. University of California - San Diego 7.02 4.10
17. University of Pennsylvania 6.96 4.09
18. University of Maryland College Park 6.58 4.02
19. University of Michigan 6.25 3.96
20. Rutgers State University - New Brunswick 5.49 3.82</p>

<p>So basically:
1. Harvard/Princeton
3. Cornell
4. columbia/Yale
6. Penn.
7. Brown
8. Dartmouth</p>

<p>(again, based on faculty reputation, not on undergrad program quality)</p>

<p>is it worth going to JHU for physics when I dont really like it that much, or can I pretty much get into the same grad schools (assuming I have research experience) if I go to BC, where I really like?</p>

<p>you should go where you want to go, seriously.</p>

<p>You're going to be spending 4 friggin years there! Why would you go somewhere where you don't like it?
I mean if you know you're going to be working 24/7, then it doesn't matter. But trust your gut instinct, it's often right!</p>

<p>Do NOT go to a school you do not like as an undergrad for a particular program. You will get into a great grad school by doing well in your courses and getting some good research experience under your belt, regardless of the prestige of the program you're interested in. Just do well in your physics courses, get a strong background, and DEFINITELY do some REUs. The one advantage of going to a school with strong physics program is that you don't have to deal with external REUs to get your research experience, because there are great opportunities on the home turf. But for four years? Not worth it...</p>

<p>well, I wouldn't say that the quality of the JHU and BC physics departments are that far off, or at least are that distinguishable to prospective graduate schools. Definetely go where you want to go. I mean, BC is a good school, as is JHU. Of course, if one were to claim equal physics education at like Minnesota State vs. Cornell, I might have to interject :P. But for these colleges, I would say the personal fit is a better way to decide.</p>

<p>Not that Pton is behind the curve or anything, but for physics/astro, it doesnt get any stronger than Cornell. The lead scientist in Mars Rover project is a Cornell prof and still teaches classes there. Carl Sagan was an associate too.</p>

<p>You're going to tell me Cornell is better than Caltech or Harvard for astro? If you want to do radio astro or planetary science, Cornell is up there. Otherwise...</p>

<p>GuitarMan...</p>

<p>Chill man... Cornell is EASILY in the top 10... it's NOT that far behind
Caltech or Harvard in any significant way...</p>

<p>Pshhh yeah we got PPPL. Princeton 4 physics. =P</p>