<p>Hey, I'm wondering which Ivy or two (try for two) that I should apply to if my interests are in Astrophysics/Astronomy/Physics. Any suggestions? I know that Cornell has some VERY impressive equipment, but what other Ivy is strong in astronomy? Pton? Columbia? </p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts, and feel free to post anything!</p>
<p>Williams. (why an Ivy?)</p>
<p>meh, I dunno...people just seem to have stronger opinions about Ivy's. So, let's amend that to "top-schools." Williams, eh? How come? Good teachers or good access to equipment?</p>
<p>BTW, I'm more interested in Astronomy/Astrophysics, so it would help if they had that as a specific major (Williams does). Thanks!</p>
<p>Princeton/Cornell i think...or you could do what i'm doing and stay away from the ivies to pursue Chicago/Michigan/Hopkins/Stanford.</p>
<p>Ivy or not...don't really care :D BUT, Cornell does have the largest radio telescope in the world lined up as a study abroad thingy, so that's good.</p>
<p>Vinco, I get U Chicago and Stanford, but JHU? Really?! I'd think that JHU is more interested in putting money into it's Bioengineering programs.</p>
<p>BTW, I'm more interested in Astronomy/Astrophysics, so it would help if they had that as a specific major. (does Williams?) Thanks!</p>
<p>Yes. Very small department. But they have two superstars in Pasaschoff and Kwitter, and have produced a hefty share of the nation's professional astronomers (who are always invited Williams undergrads for internships - especially at Kitt Peak, and Hawaii).Worth checking out. Cornell - of course is terrific. If you are into radioastronomy, the 5-college program in the valley has some of the best equipment in the world.</p>
<p>Well, one nice thing that I've found through e-mailing department heads is that astronomy departments are often VERY small--a plus at a big school like Cornell, which has like 3 majors a year....so that's cool.</p>
<p>That's great to hear about Williams. I really thought that it would take a larger research school (i.e. a state school or bigger university) to have the $$ to get equipment. You learn somethin' new every day though, lol!</p>
<p>I am going to Cornell for physics.</p>
<p>Really, physics is such a difficult discipline, it's hard to see anyone get really limited in what they learn at any Ivy league school. BUT, most professors or physics have histories at certain schools simply because of the resources.</p>
<p>If you could, Ivys to avoid for pure physics (assuming you never want to be an engineer, which is so closely related) would be: </p>
<p>Brown
Dartmouth
Penn
Yale (but it has the prestige ;))</p>
<p>I would put Columbia in the middle. I just have always thought it would be fun to live in NYC, so I may be biasd (I never applied, though)</p>
<p>Top for physics</p>
<p>Cornell (has great engineering to back it up. Lots of research equipment, and award winning faculty, including Nobel prizes)</p>
<p>Harvard (very intense history of producing good physicists. MIT's resources if need be)</p>
<p>Princeton (Einstein, among others, has spent time in P-ton. They have pretty good resources)</p>
<p>Chicago was my EA school. I toured it twice, and I still think they concentrate on theory and history too much. Not cutting edge enough unless you head over to their FermiLab. </p>
<p>Stanford has great resources. Rumor has it that they may not push you as much there as say, MIT or Cornell.</p>
<p>UIUC. Good safety school. Physics dept is great, but it was too big and really not worth the money for me (out-state was same cost as Ivys)</p>
<p>MIT and CalTech - No Brainers.</p>
<p>Where I get my data- A lot of listening to others. Checking out these schools, listening to my dad (PhD in EE from Stanford), A LOT of research on where Ivy and such physics profs went to school. For instance, I did a search to see where CalTech professors went for grad school. It was something like 5 Harvard, 5 Princeton, 4 Cornell, and a good number of MIT and CalTech.</p>
<p>Any specific questions on either Chicago of Cornell's physics dept I could try to field. I'm still a pre-frosh, so there are def. better sources, but I certainly done my research.</p>
<p>PS. I just read that you are interested in Astrophysics. I would then bump Cornell up to the top three schools you should choose from. Cornell operates Aricebo and ws responsible for much of the Mars Rover Project. Just a thought. (IMHO, I never liked the LAC's for phyics. I didn't think they had the physical resources like proton accelorators and other toys. Could be wrong)</p>
<p>I've heard the same as you about U Chicago. I.e. too much theory/intellectualism and not enough application (not always a bad thing)</p>
<p>I knew Harvard would be pretty good (w/ a $1.8*10^10 endowment and all), but I've just heard too many horror stories to apply, lol!</p>
<p>Apply. I will go down in flames for this, but I honestly think that you would walk away smarter from Cornell, but you would get more dropped jaws from Harvard, plus experience the history of the place. The second factor would probably have been enough to swing me in if I got the big envelope. But I'd like to think that Cornell carries enough prestige for me. (I have fallen into the presitge trap :()</p>
<p>Lol, I don't what you mean ;) But, I'm not exactly rich, and applying to Harvard isn't too cheap (got too many I'm thinking of applying to already, lol). It's just that I've heard about way distant profs, and foreign grad student lecturers, and depressed undergrads...though I guess that wouldn't be too far of a description of any ivy...meh.</p>
<p>Princeton and Harvard have by far the best Physics/Astrophysics departments in the Ivy League and are arguably the best anywhere. Princeton has had 17 alumni/faculty win the Nobel Prize in physics while Harvard has an equally impressive amount. Princeton has 4 Nobel Laureates still on its Physics faculty while Cornell has 3. Considering that Princeton is far smaller than Cornell, this is a huge difference. If you're scared off by Harvard, then Princeton would be your best bet by far. Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Caltech, Berkeley and Stanford are the best schools for Physics anywhere. Princeton, Harvard, Berkeley and MIT have the best faculties for physics as well (See the NRC rankings, big dropoff after MIT).</p>
<p>Princeton also has its Plasma Physics Labs nearby and the venerable Institute for Advanced Study down the street, both of which add a huge number of research opportunties that few schools can match. The astrophysics dept. in particular is not only top-notch, but very small, allowing for great faculty-student interaction. The astrophysics faculty is also amazing as it was ranked 2nd by the NRC (behind Caltech). </p>
<p>Cornell is a fantastic school for Physics/Astrophysics but it simply is not as good as Princeton or Harvard. I assume you sought Ivy because you want to stay East Coast so Princeton and MIT would be your best bets (since you didn't like Harvard). Nevertheless, MIT is not quite as good in Astrophysics as Princeton/Caltech/Berkeley/Chicago/Harvard (at least faculty wise). </p>
<p>Here are what I would consider to be fairly accurate rankings for the two fields:
Based on the NRC/USNews:
Physics:
Tier 1: Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Berkeley
Tier 2: Stanford, Caltech, Cornell, Chicago, Stanford</p>
<p>Astrophysics:
Tier 1: Caltech, Princeton, Berkeley
Tier 1.5: Harvard
Tier 2: Chicago, Cornell, MIT</p>
<p>Before I get flamed for these tiers, keep in mind that I'm just splitting hairs here. A Physics degree from any of these schools would set you on the path to a professorship anywhere you want. The difference between these tiers is miniscule and if you happen to like Chicago more than MIT or CalTech then by all means, pick Chicago. </p>
<p>If you visit and like the school, I feel as though Princeton should be your top choice. If not, Cornell would also be an excellent pick.</p>
<p>Wow, I thank you for your rather in-depth explanation there! I've been wondering about Pton for a while, and though it doesn't have Boston as a city, I feel that it sounds like an excellent choice (though I'll prolly apply to Cornell due to the 30% v. 10ish% acceptance rate).</p>
<p>PimpDaddy makes good points. Rankings are fickle. (I think US News has Cornell above Stanford for physics) Certainly there are many ways in which his "Tier One" schools beat the "Tier Two" Schools, much in the same way that a Mercedes is cooler than a BMW. i.e. It's really just personal preference (and where you get in or not). I guess I would drop Berkeley significantly at the undergraduate level, and make it a dream school for graduate work. (I never applie to Cal, but I'll scream with joy if I got in for grad school.)</p>
<p>Apply to all of those if you like them. Why not? Then if you should choose Stanford over Cornell, or Cornell over CalTech, it should be financial aid, campus life, etc, not details, details, details. (At the undergrad level, not grad.)</p>
<p>Okay, so here's what I've come up with after this discussion as a wish list thingy:</p>
<p>(no peticular order)
1. Pton
2. Cornell
3. Williams
4. Stanford?? --haven't heard anybody speak up about this one</p>
<p>Whatcha' think?</p>
<p>Stanford above Williams. No CalTech or MIT? They do have a unique environment that makes them not as suitable for the not-so-genius among us.</p>
<p>lol, edit *<em>Particular *</em> not pecticular.</p>
<p>Anyways, I said no particular order, so that's not a ranking or anything. MIT doesn't have an astro specific major, so that's a bit of a detriment. Also, the guy:girl ratio at caltech isn't really that promising, lol!</p>
<p>Any thoughts of Stanford? I've heard about Cornell, Pton, and Williams so far, but I'd like to know about Stanford.</p>
<p>if you are interested in astronomy, cornell is the way to go. the space sciences are very strong here and i personally know an undergrad here that is doing research with an astro group on some telescope or satellite or something, to be honest I forgot. a friend of mine spent a year or two doing research at the observatory and she got to play with the telescopes there. she's going to caltech next year for her phd.</p>
<p>columbia has a good physics dept but they are not strong in astronomy. princeton and harvard are the other two great choices if you can get in. i dont know enough about harvard undergrad but the education you get at princeton is TOP NOTCH. a lot of ugrad focus there. </p>
<p>you really can't go wrong with cornell if you want to study astronomy/astrophysics. </p>
<p>if you can afford it, I suggest visiting a few of the schools and possibly spending overnights as well. for example if you don't like it at one school, you won't enjoy your four years and you wont be operating at your full academic potential.</p>
<p>good luck</p>
<p>Yale for everything, because they are the best.</p>
<p>While it may be true that the big research universities have more and bigger toys, the question is, how much do the undergrads get to play with them? The link below will give you an idea of what research the Williams undergraduates are doing, and the equipment they're using. (The math department is also superb.)
<a href="http://www.williams.edu/Physics/%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/Physics/</a>
The link mentions Williams' 3 Apker awards in the last six years--that's worth considering. Everyone is familiar with the big research universities and the fabulous work going on there---usually being done by professors and graduate students. However, some schools are better than others at providing undergraduate access to high-quality research projects. One way to rate this factor would be to look at the Apker Awards for the last ten years (and I stress---this is only ONE way of looking at it---there are others). The Apker Award is the the highest national award for <em>undergraduate</em> physics research, and each year one is given to a student from a school with a PhD program (basically research universities), and one is given to a student from a school without a PhD program (mostly LACs). Here's how it broke down for the last 10 years, by number of Apkers per school:</p>
<p>Research Universities:
CalTech-2
Princeton-2
U of Florida-2
Chicago-1
MIT-1
Stanford-1
U of Rochester-1</p>
<p>LACs:
Williams College-3
Harvey Mudd-2
Swarthmore-2
Haverford College-1
Illinois State University-1
Middlebury College-1</p>