@ucbalumnus I totally understand! But any extra, unnecessary stress would exacerbate it and I’m not trying to get into the rut that I see a lot of burned out students fall into:)
@intparent Exactly!
I just realized it might be helpful for me to list some things I like about these schools-
Reed: my #1 favorite thing is that they have discussion based classes where everyone is expected to give their opinions and converse. At least right now I learn best by talking out the subject. Reed also has good research and they feed into PhD programs.
Wellesley: beautiful campus! I’m also the only girl in my STEM classes and I appreciate the empowerment of a women’s college, not sold on a women’s college but I love the idea. Connections such as the Madeleine Albright Institute and the Clinton Foundation for jobs and internships. It also seems like I wouldn’t have to take out loans.
Smith: Alumnae connections, house system, I definitely know what to expect there at the very least
Williams: They really seem to have it all with their liberal arts and language classes with a strong STEM backing as well. BiGP sounds amazing, although I haven’t found that much information on it. They do graduate level research and I think that they have a lot of connections.
UChicago: while it may be big and intimidating they seem to have the most resources. I could major in something that I love rather than a generic “Biology” I have alumni connections though they aren’t as strong as at Smith. They’re also starting programming to eliminate loans and debt.
Brown: prestigious, but big. I have family in Rhode Island.
Bowdoin: I love Maine and Bowdoin has great resources and seems to be climbing the ladders of prestige.
Carleton & Macalester: I know someone who went to Carleton and someone who taught at Carleton who both loved it. Macalester has a lot of interesting research and internship opportunities.
Claremonts: I have connections as well as family nearby, pretty, a consortium (not sure how I feel about a consortium but I know it is helpful with resources)
Swarthmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr: they’re all beautiful, I know a Haverford grad who loved it. I know Swarthmore is known as being very stressful which is intimidating. ’
I am not set on these schools in anyway and am definitely open to anything as I’ve said but I am trying to narrow my list or come up with a better list. These are just some of my various thoughts and ramblings that I’m hoping may help you guide me in the right direction. In the end it will probably come down to $ but I want to have some top candidates to strive or potentially rank for QB in the future. I know there are flaws everywhere, but at this point I definitely feel lost in my options and none really seem like “the perfect fit” I’m sure my list will narrow when I start really touring and applying but I obviously can’t tour everywhere. I know this is probably just as long as my original post which I apologize for but any advice you can give me will be appreciated. I am just majorly overwhelmed, befuddled, and indecisive;)
Thank you so much, you don’t know how much your advice means to me!
Stop looking for the perfect fit.
I don’t really see the difference in applying to a need blind school and getting in but not being able to afford it and applying to a need aware school that gives you the funding you need if you are admitted. If you don’t get into a need aware school, you can’t go there. If you can’t afford a need blind school even if admitted, you can’t go there.
You need to start running the NPC at several schools and see what you’d be expected to pay (or borrow). There is often a big difference between what you think you need and what the school thinks you need, and that difference comes out of your pocket.
Your best financial deal may be at one of your state schools. I think you are from Ohio? Lots of merit scholarships in Ohio and you can cut down on travel costs. It’s a huge state. I’m sure you can find a corner where it will feel like you are ‘away’ at school.
For a range of opinions on beautiful campuses, you can flip through these sites:
https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/the-25-most-beautiful-college-campuses-in-america
https://www.deseretnews.com/top/3086/0/The-35-most-beautiful-college-campuses-in-America.html
https://www.bestdegreeprograms.org/best-beautiful-small-college-campuses-america
@twoinanddone Thank you!! I’ve been doing cost estimators and Williams is consistently the lowest (accompanied by Wellesley, Dartmouth, Vassar, and UChicago). I am in Kentucky! Which has Centre and Transylvania but I’m hoping to go out of state if at all possible. I am trying to stick to colleges that provide 100% of need. I understand the rationale for being need aware, but it is disconcerting for them to pick and choose their students with need in mind. I also know that I’m probably being mellow-dramatic about the “perfect” school and I know I’d probably be happy anywhere… I’m just hoping to either broaden my search to find a “better” fit or narrow my search to hone in on the ones that would work best for me:)
You should certainly look around and see what type of school you like best, but when it came down to it my kids didn’t have the entire universe of schools to pick from as finances played a big part in their options. Even after we ran the numbers and picked the schools based on what we could afford, things changed and they had to take out the loans. One, who attended the much more expensive school but had better aid, only had to take the subsidized loans for $15,500 (and had $5k of that left at graduation, which she used to buy a car, pay for insurance, and rent an apartment). She did not find that picking a lower ranked school with better financial aid hurt her at all in the job market.
My other daughter is into the $20k range for student loans (graduates in Dec). She might do Americorps to pay down $6k of that and gain some work experience. There are a lot of jobs that she’d really enjoy.
We tried to avoid student loans, but in the end it just wasn’t possible.
Check out Davidson, the second college in the country to eliminate loans after Princeton. Rhodes is also worth a look. Both offer very strong science programs, laidback yet studious student bodies, and lovely campuses.
For a list of loan-free colleges, see the link below.
Just wanted to update to say that I visited Kenyon, Oberlin, and Case Western
Kenyon: I almost immediately felt off, I loved some of the older buildings (Ascension Hall!) but something about it wasn’t me
Oberlin: I loved it! It was a great size, pretty, everyone was so nice, and it has a gorgeous park.
Case Western: Definitely too big for me, I knew that going in but visited anyway since I was already in Cleveland. Very pretty, though.
Visiting Kenyon was my first real college visit and not clicking with it was scary for me, but I am so happy I went to all of them (had to skip Wooster). I don’t necessarily want to go to college in Ohio but I had a great time.
Davidson meets full need and has brand new amazing science building and great pre-med reputation. It’s known as very hard and some grade deflation BUT well-rounded students and not total stress fest. Has a bit of a sports culture – mostly basketball – as it’s D1. [Full disclosure: my D is starting there next month as bio major.]
Already mentioned but I’ll second: Grinnell, Carleton, Smith
Good luck – you’ll do great!!
If Oberlin felt the best to you in that bunch, you might try these that are not yet on your list:
Wesleyan
Skidmore
Bard
On your list, Vassar! It may have a similar feel to Oberlin.
If single-sex appeals to you, maybe Smith and Wellesley on your list might have some similarities with Oberlin as well.
Of the Claremonts, maybe Pitzer? (But you might not like the architecture.)
I think Bryn Mawr is needs aware rather than need blind. Our experience was that they offered substantially less than Haverford, Williams, and Wellesley.
Toured twice, liked it a lot, the girls we met were fantastic people, they all said the work load was quite intense. I think there is grade deflation at Wellesley.
Agree with @intparent. Even if you don’t do the official tour, let admissions know you are there. Demonstrated interest can sometimes make a difference.
Did you go on the tour at Oberlin? I can’t tell from your post. The buildings are the least imports part of “fit” IMHO.
-
You are listing all “stretch” schools. They may be your “target” schools, but they should always be considered “stretches.” Most of those schools reject more perfect GPAs and test scores than they accept. And you haven’t mentioned any test scores, extra curriculars, awards, independent projects or research, or your service resumé. Or any special talent, or other “hook”… All which may be equally as important as your GPA, at the schools you are listing. I am not saying you can’t get in.
It may be quite possible that you can. But it would be prudent to add some “safeties.” -
Also, with regard to your list, there is quite a variance in the identity and personality of those schools. Many of those schools care enormously about “fit.”. Which of those schools will be your best fit and can you explain why? Can you show it, using your common app, your resume, and your essays? To get into any of those schools, your application is going to have to convey you are a good fit.
-
If you liked Oberlin, maybe add Earlham, Wooster, or Beloit … Or Bard as someone said above… as more secure options that might be great fits for you.
-
Finally, based on your expressed academic interests and long-term goals, take a look at this list. This is a list of the top 50 undergraduate colleges with great grad placement rates whose graduates go on to successfully complete PhD programs in the sciences:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-50-schools-that-produce-science-phds/ -
As you finalize your list, be sure to really looking at the schools’ identities, rather than just checking their majors, their rankings, their aid, etc…
You are going to have to convey that you know who that school believes that they are, at the soul-level…and how you are, essentially, a soul-mate. That is how you get in to the schools on your list. And that is a random list of schools… You can’t be soul-mate with all of them!
@BB Thank you, I definitely know that much of my list is composed of reach/target schools… that’s definitely part of my problem. How do you suggest that I find the identity/vibe of a school?
@intparent I did end up going on a tour, but I was at a science conference and only had a little over two hours so I couldn’t do the full tour.
@aphroditeayelet
There is a lot that goes into it and it is a pretty complex question, but, the best place to start is to go back to their websites.
I am going to assume, since you said you have been looking, that you have a sort of “wishlist” and that these schools check a lot of those boxes for you. ( If not, you should do that, but I am assuming you have done.).
** I want to add to this: don’t get to hung-up on your wishlist. As you go through the application process, it is right and reasonable that some of those wishes may change, or that the order in which you priorotize them will.**
Anyway, assuming you have made a “preliminary list” of potential “schools of interest” based on your wish list, you want to go and carefully look at their websites, again.
And as you go through each site, jot some notes down. However you want is fine. I don’t know you… But maybe make for each school make a love/don’t love list and then a list of questions that occur to you that might be important to answer if you really went thatool
Please go and take a really good look over their websites. Don’t look at majors, or statistics.
Go and look at what they say about themselves. Especially what they put on the front pages, those are the things that they care most about communicating; that they prioritize; that they find most interesting; that they are most proud of. What are those things? How much do you care about them? What is the message they mean to convey by putting them up front? How do you relate to it? What does that say about who they are? What does that mean to you?
Still from the front pages, read what they have to say, click some interesting links, watch a couple of the videos. Look for repetition and patterns of words they use. Are there any recurring themes or motifs? Those are probably going to give you an idea regarding their values, and the community they aspire to be.
Do these things excite you? Do you have similar interests and values? Do you think belonging to that community sounds amazing? If not, cross them off. If so, you will keep looking.
We are still on the front pages (not only the front page, but we are just doing a preliminary look here so don’t start clicking too deep yet) Take a close look at the pictures of the students on the front pages. What do you notice about them? Are the pictures posed or candid? What sort of diversity is represented? (Not just gender and ethnicity, etc… but… other things that are represented such as majors, activities, clothing styles, etc… That is: if every single person in every single picture is wearing a lab coat, that might tell you something about the school. If every student is sitting quietly in a desk in every picture, that tells you something about the school.) What do you the photos seem to say about the school environment? Classrooms? Common areas? How do they seem to portray student learning in pictures with academic settings? Even look at their clothes and hairstyles? What activities are they doing? Are the photos captioned? What can you learn from that? What ideas and impressions do you have of the school based on the photos?
Does this seem like a place you might want to spend four years? Are you interested in those people? Would you like to know them better? Would you like to do what they seem to be doing? If so, keep looking. If not, cross them off.
When you have taken a good look at the front pages, start clicking in further.
Follow the school YouTube (or Vevo) channel and watch a couple of videos. Watch a school promo video, but also watch some where they interview profs and students? Watch another one and just pay attention to things in the background that the camera wasn’t really focused on. What do you think?
Now, you can look at their activities, events, and clubs. It tells you something about the student body’s interests. Can you see yourself participating?
Then look at graduation requirements and the course catalogs. Do the classes sound interesting? Which ones excite you?
Follow links for anything you care about. What sets this school apart and distinguishes it from the others on the list. Why is this school different? Why is it more exciting to you than any of the others?
Are there any programs or opportunities or policies that might be “icing on the cake” for you? What are they? Why do you love them? How are they different than the opportunities offered at other schools?
Can you explain what ideas and priorities resonate with you at each school? How much? And why? If not, you may not get in (to the schools you have listed)
Can you give examples of the way this manifests itself at that school? Can you relate that in a specific way to yourself, such as to your past experiences or your future goals? If not, you may not get in?
Can you tell what about the school stands out to you and why this is unique to this school, and very special to you? If not, you may not get in.
*Tip – once you decide you will apply to a school, Go back to their website and give your list of “loves” a final edit…and start jotting down WHY you love those things. In detail. Think about your past experiences or future goals and jot some notes on how those things align. That will inform (or may even become) your college-specific supplemental essay. *
Anyway, there is more to it than that, but this conveys the focus of the whole process. It is a long process and should not be rushed. You need to be well-informed, and you need to be honest, with yourself first, and then with each school. You can NOT BS these schools on your fit. They are really good at judging fit and they know BS when they see it. And you don’t want to go to a school you don’t really “fit” because you won’t be happy.
Also, keep in mind that you can only go to one school. And if you don’t get accepted at one you think you like, it isn’t that you “aren’t good enough.” It is hard to judge fit, and possible to make a mistake. The admissions office saw it and they are doing you a favor by not letting you make a mistake.
@aphroditeayelet – also keep in mind that most schools offer a “virtual tour,” so you can always use that to get an idea of the layout and visual of most schools, also.
Compare financial aid numbers in the Common Data Set, section H, for Reed and some of the other colleges that interest you. Among selective private schools, having ~50% of students on n-b aid and 50% full pay is a fairly typical break-down. Actually, that would be a higher percentage of aid recipients than at some other need-aware colleges that claim to meet 100% of demonstrated need for the students they do accept.
Even among schools that claim to be need-blind, something around that 50-50 balance seems to be fairly typical. That leads me to wonder if some of them aren’t BINO (Blind in Name Only). Maybe they’re throttling ED admissions, or private HS admissions, or some such, to all but guarantee a critical mass of full pay students.
Thank you so much everyone, wow! I am so grateful.
Another big issue for me is that I can make highly selective schools with high endowments work because they give so much in aid, but a lot of safeties and matches don’t have as much money to give. I can work with the highly selective schools that I dream about and I can work with the in state schools that I really don’t want to go to but everything in the middle costs more per year than those schools do for all four years. Mini rant over. Now to work really hard for SAT and QB I guess;)