<p>Interesting article in the Nov. Down East magazine, by a journalist who was granted year-long access to the admissions process at Bates. She provides an inside view, quite similar to the recent book about Hamilton's admission process. The subtitle promises "What she learned about how Maine colleges choose students may surprise you." There won't be many surprises for veteran CC-ers, but it humanizes the process. If there are any nuggets they are how many times the "Why Bates" essay comes up and how much they talk about the likelihood of a student yielding:</p>
<p>
[quote]
Dean of Admissions Wylie Mitchell and the rest of the staff say what they're looking for is a good match between student and school. "High energy; too wound up for the culture here" is the assessment of one rejected student.
[/quote]
This popped out at me, on that basis most of the kids on CC would get rejected!</p>
<p>Well, we found that to be true. S accepted at Williams, Brown, UofC, Wesleyan, Amherst. Rejected at Bates.</p>
<p>His best friend, rejected any of the above schools he applied to, accepted (and very happy) at Bates. </p>
<p>Judging by some of the stories his mother has recounted to me, Bates made the right decision. My S is too cynical to be happy there; they just seem so "wholesome". (Don't mean to imply that S isn't; he is just a bit sardonic in the Ferris Bueller way.) No harm. Bates was not at the top of his list.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Generally speaking, a B student who takes a school's most challenging courses is rated higher than an A student who sticks with an easier curriculum
[/quote]
Agree that there's not a lot of news in the article for veteran cc'ers. Although I still hear parents and students advocating both sides of the "is it better to have the A average or the toughest courses?" debate, so I was interested to see it stated in no uncertain terms at this school.</p>
<p>Thanks for the article! I had never heard the term "yieldable" before.</p>
<p>My favorite admissions jargon is "swim," used to mean deferred ED: it's admit, deny, or swim (in the RD pool).</p>
<p>It's all so individual. My son looked at Bates and Wesleyan--wonderful schools-- and didn't apply after visiting schools in the midwest that felt like a better fit. Wouldn't even look at HYP, Brown, Dartmouth because they didn't sound right for him, also rejected Amherst, Williams and Swarthmore after reading the guide books. Wellesley wouldn't have worked for obvious reasons. I do think he ended up at the best match for him and I think we can get too caught up in random rankings. Donning my flame retardant suit and retreating to my hot tub.</p>
<p>Bethie: I beg your pardon if you thought I meant that Bates wasn't good enough for him. He really lliked it when we visited. They rejected him -- he applied. It wasn't his first choice because it was further away from home and he ha already fallen in love with other schools. By saying the kids were more wholesome than he is is not a comment of "sophistication" of the schools -- it's just that S's friend is much more open with his feelings than S ever would be, and the Bates kids are very open to that, whereas the kids where S is might not be.</p>
<p>If anything, that's saying something nice about Bates.</p>
<p>Please forgive me for giving the impression that I think schools are worthy by rating. S would have gone to Bard, ranked somewhere in 40's? over many schools ranked much higher.</p>
<p>I feel sad that I sent you retreating to your hot tub. </p>
<p>I should be more careful in the way I word things.</p>
<p>Thanks for the link. Passed it on to my S who just got back from Bates this Tues. Really enjoyed his visit and will apply. I suppose he will put more thought into his "Why Bates" essay now.</p>
<p>mythmom</p>
<p>You've never sent me retreating anywhere--though my hot tub is a good place to retreat--do join me sometime. I feel sometimes here on CC that to say anything negative about a "top 10" LAC or University= a negative reaction. My son didn't like Bates, though I'm sure it's the perfect school for others. I'm sure many students wouldn't like his first choice college. He also wasn't interested in many "top" 20 schools including all Ivies. This is a valid judgement, but I feel that any time I've said it I've gotten a big negative reaction, not from you mythmom--ever--but from other posters. Doesn't mean these aren't great schools, but I'm surprised at the defensiveness. Who needs to protect the reputation of HYP here?</p>
<p>I liked this article, thanks for putting it up! I'm a senior in college, and looking back, I think these schools are doing themselves and their applicants a service by specifically avoiding "high strung" students. Apparently I tricked my university into admitting me though! Haha</p>
<p>Colleges want students who will succeed so they put some effort into judging whether students would fit in and be comfortable.</p>
<p>On the other hand, aren't schools looking to improve their standing in the all-important USNWR rankings? They may reject a perfectly qualified student if they are 99% sure he/she will choose another college, maybe one higher up in the rankings.</p>
<p>Yes you're right. It's often called the "Tufts Effect," though I find the name unfair.</p>
<p>I remember reading that article and wondering how the heck I got into Bates... the process is so intense.</p>
<p>In terms of the culture here, yeah, we are pretty "wholesome". Not in an overly religious way, but at least in terms of sex, I would put Bates much closer to the "conservative side" than a liberal side. Most students aren't having "random drunken sex" - here random drunken hookup more often than not means going back to a guy's room and making out with him. I've found that's different here than at a lot of other schools, where it's par for the course that if you go back with someone, you have sex.</p>
<p>'Course I don't think that's what they meant... we are also pretty open and friendly, and though people get stressed, I don't know nearly as many "AHH I GOT A B! THE WORLD IS ENDING!" types as I did in HS.</p>
<p>Here's a Bates page which links a follow-up public radio interview with the author. It's interesting what her take-away was: she was surprised by the number of times that fit and students' level of interest (and their ability to articulate that interest) were a factor in the admissions decision. What goes unsaid is that most of those conversations are probably about the academic 3s and 4s on Bates's 7-point scale. Another interesting detail: if a student asks a question at a college fair, the adcom "is probably taking notes," and that gets entered into the Bates database.</p>
<p>BatesNow</a> | 11/15/2007 | Using Bates as a model, media outlets demystify the admissions process</p>
<p>Although neither of my children ended up attending Bates, we have been impressed each time we visited the school (three in total) by the overall niceness of the place, from students saying good morning to us on the paths to everyone in the admissions office. I remember the secretary who gave us meal vouchers and helped my daugher figure out which classes she could sit in on one April morning when we arrived unannounced, and I especially remember Wylie Mitchell himself, who spoke to my daughter spontaneously, at length, and very persuasively when we met on the steps of the admissions building. I am glad to see Bates getting some additional favorable attention in the larger world.</p>
<p>I was disgusted by this exchange regarding the admission of an applicant who would not have had a prayer were her parent/s not wealthy alumni. </p>
<p>"In another case, it's somewhat hard to see what's driving the committee's decision, unless it's simple politics. An applicant from a New England private school is described as "a solid B student with no rigor until twelfth grade. She's very committed to service [abroad]. And she's a legacy." </p>
<p>"I would support the admit decision," Mitchell says. "I think she'll be fine here." </p>
<p>Of course the "Dean" would support her being admitted... but what about the kid that got rejected because this lazy underachieving legacy relied not upon her own merits, (no AP or honors courses untill senior year and some vague reference to service abroad) but her parents money. Parents that probably decry Affirmative Action in every way shape and form. I hope they all took a shower after that admit!</p>
<p>Nightingale, I don't think you can call the applicant a "lazy underachieving legacy" based on a few sentences. Bates is SAT optional, big on the interview, and doesn't provide readily accessible stats or class profiles. It's the kind of place that wants great flexibility in admissions decisions, probably for a wide variety of reasons. No need for a shower. It's not as if they pretend to be a strictly numbers = merit-based institution.</p>
<p>That legacy student was probably very "yieldable".</p>
<p>Okay let's not call her lazy. Let's call her a "B" student who waited until her senior year to build "rigor" into her cirriculum. We're not talking some lower middle class kid in an over crowded public high school with whom nobody took authorship. We're talking a "private" New England high school, ie., Deerfield, Choate, that ilk. There they must have been insisting she do more than cruise through her first three years. If "great flexibility" means reaching down for wealthy sub-par students to the exclusion of middleclass non-legacy kids, than I understand the use of the term. It is one thing to talk up academic excellence, but another to pimp your institution out for some fat-cat's kid who could not get accepted otherwise. Whatever you do Bates don't reach into that multi-million dollar endowment to bring in the best students, but rather keep feathering your nest with 40% full pay and legacies types to fatten the coffers. Even the author infers this applicant was admitted based on who, not what she knew.</p>