Well that is a study with disturbing results.
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Unlikely. And sadly even if we can itâs too late for those who received mRNA vaccinesâŠ.many of whom received 5 or more.
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This is an open access journal. Proceed with caution.
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I have had 5 shots and my antibody level two weeks, one month, three months afterward was followed in a study by Johns Hopkins for those with chronic illness. Antibody response was robust, actually increasingly so, but I am holding off on a second bivalent booster due to concerns about immune exhaustion or imprinting.
I have had a lupus diagnosis for 20 years and my only significant symptom has been sickness in the sun. This summer I have been quite sick in a variety of quite painful ways and have a new autoimmune disorder, scleroderma, as well as a drop in kidney function.
It is easy enough to find information online that might point to vaccines as causative factors for these new developments, but my tendency toward autoimmune disorders was already well-established.
Regardless, I am afraid to stoke my immune system in any way, but that is true in general for autoimmune issues because stoking the immune system stokes the attack on oneself!
The immune system is indeed complex. Rather than manipulating it this summer, I am going to keep wearing a mask.
Editing to add that even with most people maskless, the COVID rates are still low, so the vaccines must be doing something right!
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Could you explain further? Peer-reviewed research is the gold standard, correct? Open access journals are free to read, but the authors have to pay to essentially self-publish, correct?
Exactly. And if you look at who did the research it reminds me a lot of the last paper my husband reviewed where the references were all faked. I am not a scientist, so I canât judge, but if itâs not a peer reviewed journal, you should be asking yourself why.
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I just read the whole article. While some of the ideas are interesting, I also picked up a bias throughout (or instance, interpretation of increased mortality in Britain among the vaccinated). The article mentions similar issues with the HIV, malaria and pertussis vaccines, with high antigen exposure, repeated vaccines, and IgG4 immune suppression.
But most importantly, the article closes with this:
Finally, these negative outcomes are not expected to affect all people who have received these mRNA vaccines. Individuals with genetic susceptibility, immune deficiencies, and comorbidities are probably the most likely to be affected. However, this gives rise to a disturbing paradoxâif people who are the most affected by the COVID-19 disease (the elderly, diabetics, hypertensive, and immunocompromised people like those with HIV) are also more susceptible to suffering the negative effects of repeated mRNA vaccination, is> it then justified to booster them? As Omicron subvariants have been demonstrated to be> less pathogenic [133â137], and mRNA vaccines do not protect against re-infection [14,138], clinicians should be aware of the possible detrimental effects on the immune system by administering boosters.
Because of my existing autoimmune disorder, and recent addition of another one w/increased symptoms, I have been googling âvaccines autoimmunityâ while trying to decide against a booster. I found one woman who developed lupus after a COVID vaccine (but causation cannot be proven) and a few autoimmune IgA kidney cases. I think that what the author describes is possible but also possibly may apply to very few patients.
I talked to an old boyfriend recently whose wife came down with all sorts of problems and after eliminating all the other possibilities they came to the conclusion that her problems were due to the vaccine. There will always be some people who have bad reactions, but Iâm pretty sure for most of us the vaccines have prevented serious illness. I know lots of people who have had Covid, but the only ones who were seriously ill were the ones who got it before vaccines were available.
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The evidence is overwhelming that the initial mRNA vaccine rollout in 2021 saved hundreds of thousands of lives. My concern in 2023 is if the benefits currently outweigh the risks of boosting with mRNA vaccines, given the risks of immune tolerance and autoimmune disease. This article from Science Immunology articulates that concern:
https://www.science.org/doi/epdf/10.1126/sciimmunol.adg7327
âfuture clinical studies need to evaluate the effectiveness of temporal spreading out of mRNA vaccine boostsâpossibly no more than once a year. Other approaches worth investigating would be the use of smaller quantities of mRNA for booster doses and, separately, the use of mRNA vaccines for priming only, with heterologous boosts with adjuvant-free recombinant spike proteins because, theoretically, adjuvants are most relevant during priming and may not be necessary for boosting.â
Review, Sci Immunol. 2023 Mar 31;8(81). Epub 2023 Mar 24.
Is it bad, is it good, or is IgG4 just misunderstood?
- PMID: 36749191
Abstract
Repeated doses of mRNA vaccines for COVID-19 result in increased proportions of anti-spike antibodies of the IgG4 subclass, which are known to neutralize well and to form mixed immune complexes with IgG1 but, in a pure form, might be less effective than IgG1 or IgG3 antibodies in facilitating opsonization by phagocytes, complement fixation, and NK cell-dependent elimination of infected cells
That paper does say that âIt should be kept in mind that repeated boosting with mRNA vaccines has been protective (12).â
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And sadly, there is a lack of response, help or even acknowledgement for those COVID vaccine injured individuals.
'But as Fox would soon learn, the government has two starkly different injury programs for vaccines. One operates like a civil court with a neutral judge, lawyers on both sides, and a guaranteed right of appeal. In recent decades, it has approved about 75% of claims and pays out hundreds of millions of dollars per year.
The other, which handles COVID-19 vaccines, has rejected almost every claim brought to it, awarding less than $10,000 since the pandemic. And in a nation nearly numb to the pandemicâs toll and its scandals, the program is adding seething frustration atop lasting injury to Fox and people like her in a little reported aftermath to the governmentâs much criticized performance on vaccines â ranging from erratic booster advice to broad-brush vaccine mandates that cost people their jobs. â
The information regarding the control and management of information flow during COVID is readily available. Will not go into here since this isnât the political forum. My hope is that a more open discussion about ALL aspects of the past three years is becoming acceptable.
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Completely anecdotal and likely just an interesting coincidence, but I actually know someone else who had an existing autoimmune disorder and then developed scleroderma recently. She does link it to multiple boosters but Iâm not sure thereâs any way to know that for certain.
There is no way to know. My feeling always it that anything that stokes the immune system carries the danger of stoking autoimmunity. I had an autoimmune reaction to cancer because cancer stokes the immune system! I used to skip the flu shot. I donât take echinacea because it enhances immunity! Etc.
Clearly the vaccines have done enormous good and I think without adequate studies, it is just up to us to assess our risk. I know my antibody response was high based on the the study I was in, and of course, what does COVID itself do to the immune system and autoimmunity. I am trying to find a prudent middle road here. If I am the weirdo in the store with the mask on, so be it!
My hand is tightening and starting to curl. I find it weirdly fascinating, as long as it stays out of my insides!
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My husband has an autoimmune disease. Unfortunately one autoimmune disease begets other problems. Heâs been tremendously helped by the medication he takes. But other issues still pop up.
It was this way before covid, it will be this way afterwards. His rheumatologist said that he should take all the vaccines he can to boost any immunity he can get.
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I am by no means an expert but evidence has consistently shown that exposure to antigens enhances immunity. One of the prevailing theories on auto-immune diseases is the hygiene hypotheses - that our immune systems no longer get a good enough workout from existing antigens and thus turn on themselves. All the current recommendations are to feed kids peanut butter early and have them grow up with animals to avoid allergies and other auto immune disorders. I hate to say it but those who have had multiple boosters are also those who are most likely to have kept wearing masks and avoiding people - so to me at least itâs just as likely that the lack of âexerciseâ for their immune system over the past 3+ years is s more likely culprit in developing new autoimmune issues than the boosters are.
The J&J / Janssen vaccine mentioned in the linked page is no longer available in the US, nor is any other viral vector vaccine for COVID-19, although it and other viral vector vaccines are available in many other countries.
Currently, the US has low vaccine diversity for COVID-19 vaccines, with two mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna, BA.5 + ancestral) and one protein subunit vaccine (Novavax, ancestral). Supposedly, they will be coming out with XBB variant versions in a few months.
What about Novavax? It is developing a monovalent booster for use in the U.S.
Mentioned above:
SorryâŠI must have only read the first paragraph of your post. No excuse other than that my coffee hadnât kicked in yet!
The Novavax CEO was recently interviewed on Statâs Readout Loud podcast. He was pretty cagey on the prospects of an XBB targeted vaccine for this fall, saying at one point âwe donât know if weâll get there.â
If they donât run out of money and have a successful rollout, Iâm leaning towards a Novavax booster over an mRNA booster for fall 2023:
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