<p>I know these two schools are similar in terms of nerdiness and atmosphere.
Apart from the difference in location settings, is there any reason to choose Carleton over UChicago for academics, opportunity, or any other reason?</p>
<p>I have no experience with UChicago, but I suspect there are many who would consider Carleton to be less...soul-sucking is the word, perhaps? I encourage you to visit both campuses and talk to current students (and not just peppy freshmen, but jaded upperclassmen too) to find out for yourself. I'm not convinced that the atmospheres are really all that similar.</p>
<p>I applied to both UChicago and Carleton, so I can speak to that.</p>
<p>Carleton is a MUCH more relaxed place than U of C. Carleton students always seem happy to me--very happy with Carleton, their work, even when they're stressed out. Students that are happy at U of C are happy with a larger workload (heavier, more grueling) but it's all ok because they love the school.</p>
<p>Personally, I would not have done well at U of C because of the intense structure. There are SO many gen eds, and even though I know I would learn a lot from them, I wouldn't be able to take classes in non-major subjects that I'm interested in. I applied as a transfer student, so this was a bigger issue for me, and while there are definitely U of C students who manage to take everything they want, it takes more careful planning. Besides the gen eds, I think the stress of the workload would have been too much.</p>
<p>The impression I got from talking to alumni, students and others affiliated with the university is that students come close to killing themselves studying, but they're the kind of kids who love that stuff (U of C has a lot of self-selection, hence the higher acceptance rate in years past) so it isn't a factor to them.</p>
<p>At Carleton, I think there's more balance, more scheduling freedom, greater participation in extracurriculars (just a guess, but I think most people do some things) and the same dedication to the school as U of C students without some of the baggage.</p>
<p>So why choose Carleton over U of C? Think about what kind of a student you are, and if you think the atmosphere at Carleton better matches what you want in a school. Other than that, good luck!</p>
<p>U of C is the place where fun goes to die.</p>
<p>Ok, so maybe not really. Those who prefer a more rural setting, well then, Carleton sure is the better pick. U of C is bigger, has more nobel prizes, and Obama taught there - but that can sway an applicant either way when deciding. I've found that it's SO important to tour and get a feel of the campus before making a decision - there arent 23902385029385092385 colleges out there for no reason... Harvard isn't right for everybody.</p>
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The impression I got from talking to alumni, students and others affiliated with the university is that students come close to killing themselves studying, but they're the kind of kids who love that stuff (U of C has a lot of self-selection, hence the higher acceptance rate in years past) so it isn't a factor to them.
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<p>As a Chicago student, that's the best summary of my school I've ever heard. And you don't even attend the school! Nutty.</p>
<p>I personally don't feel overwhelmed with work at Chicago, but I think that that's partially because I have an iron stomach when it comes to academics and they are not a source of stress for me. (i.e. "Oh, ten page paper due tomorrow? No problem, it will get done!") I also don't stress over grades. I am a serious student and I felt that Chicago was more "serious" while Carleton was more "playful." (That, and Carleton was too small and remote for me-- otherwise I think I would have considered it VERY seriously).</p>
<p>Chicago's a great place for me socially.... what I lack in stress academically, I more than make up for in social stress. (Funny, I can speak to a large group of people about a focused topic with total ease, but when it comes to personal, informal, "Hi how are you?" conversation, I freeze up like none other). I don't know what kind of place Carleton is socially, but I really like how Chicago seems to be relatively non-judgmental, as kids are generally more interested in being themselves than impressing other people with images of the people they'd like others to think they are.</p>
<p>Flyshow: I’ll give this question a shot, knowing both schools quite well from personal involvement. </p>
<p>As you may know, a lot of kids who end up at Carleton looked at Chicago and decided it wasn’t their thing. Chicago, to its great credit, offers some of the smallest class sizes to be found at a mid-sized university. While graduate students do routinely teach classes there, they do so primarily at the introductory level. They otherwise generally assume supporting roles running discussion or lab groups. As I’m sure you realize, Carleton, true to its LAC designation, has no graduate students on campus. All classes and discussion sections are run by professors and the remarkable opportunity to interact with and bond to faculty is unique to that LAC experience. </p>
<p>Another major distinction between schools, as already mentioned, is degree requirements. Carleton’s are pretty gentle. The prevailing school administration’s attitude holds that while students need to be guided through four years, they respect their differences, seriousness of purpose, and trust that they can make responsible decisions consistent with their individual needs and career aspirations. Chicago’s core curriculum, though much more flexible today than in years past, remains quite dense (and the school’s, and Unalove’s, pride and joy). If the Core is your cup of tea as well, this will be a great experience. If not, well, there’s no take it or leave it option on the table. </p>
<p>Beyond academics, location is an obvious difference. If urban is your thing, I personally believe Chicago is one of the best cities in the country to experience as an undergraduate. The down sides can be glaring, as the recent murder (albeit the first in decades) of a graduate student on the Chicago campus painfully points out. While serious crime there fortunately is uncommon, the need for vigilance is ever-present. While caution can’t exactly be thrown to the wind, Northfield is not the South Side. There’s much freedom of mind to be found in a historic small town surrounded by acres of arboretum and running trails. The bonds that students develop on a bucolic self contained campus are quite considerable and help explain why the Carleton alumni giving rate trumps every other school in the country. While Minneapolis/St. Paul are only 40-50 minutes away, the last time I looked, there was no El to get you there. Even counting campus shuttles and your friend with the ’89 Chevy, the level of access is obviously not the same. </p>
<p>Having said all this, I’d argue that the best reason to choose Carleton is because GerberDaisy is right. The self-selected kids that go there are almost uniformly, ridiculously, HAPPY – proof that rigorous academics and zany fun do not have to be mutually exclusive. If you visit and it just feels right, welcome to four remarkable years as a Carl. If not, keep on looking until that feeling does hit. Good luck.</p>
<p>Fabulous post, 1190!</p>
<p>"The self-selected kids that go to Carleton are almost uniformly, ridiculously, HAPPY-–proof that rigorous academics and zany fun do not have to be mutually exclusive."
I SO agree with 1190! Last year when we were doing the college-visit-thing, my daughter was determined she would go to a school in or very near a major urban area. She was pretty snooty about the whole process (I think), blithely dismissing terrific schools like Grinnell, Oberlin, and Carleton because their location didn't suit her. Macalester was on her short list, and I insisted that while in Minnesota (we're Kentuckians) she had to visit Carleton as well. We went back and forth on this because she thought it was a waste of her time. Long story short, we arranged the visit, she fell in love, and is now a ridiculously happy freshman at this little college in the middle of nowhere. Go figure.</p>
<p>My son is a Carl freshman, and his girlfriend is at UChicago. Earlier in the fall, he mentioned that she was having some trouble in org. chem and and couldn't get a hold of her prof in that course. Meanwhile, my son ran into his freshman seminar teacher while on his way to talk to his sociology teacher. They talked for a while about his recent essay, etc., then he went in to talk to his soc. teacher. She loaned him a book on Chicago's urban planning when she found out he was going to Chicago later in the term, because she knows he's interested in urban planning. She also recommended him for a December conference on urban planning in California (he'd only have to pay airfare). Then, while walking out of her office together, they ran into the seminar teacher again and talked some more.</p>
<p>He called this "an embarrassment of riches" in the teacher-contact area compared to his girlfriend's experience. That said, his girlfriend loves Chicago (and is now doing fine in organic chem.--along with theoretical calculus, and other lightweight courses. ;)) She's happiest when she's pushing herself to her academic limit, whereas my son doesn't want that much--what would be to him--stress. I think they each picked the right school for them.</p>
<p>Wow, this post has been unbelievably helpful. Coincidentally, I'm in the exact same boat. I was just admitted into both Carleton and the University of Chicago, and, at first, I was having a hard time deciding where to go.</p>
<p>This is how my logic flowed. At surface level, people would think that Carleton and the University of Chicago are completely different, but I believe you're right when you said they two schools are similar in terms of nerdiness and atmosphere, and that's what makes them so unique. They have wonderfully bright kids without the pecuniary prestige and pretension of the other top notch schools. However, and this choice was hard for me, I decided that Carleton was the best of the two schools simply because what everyone said above was exactly right. Also, one of the main driving forces behind my desire to go the University of Chicago was... because it was in Chicago. Then it dawned on me that I'm going to be a poor college kid and wouldn't be able to afford much of the riches the city of Chicago offered anyway. Also, with a community like that of Carleton, you don't need a big city to find fun or entertainment. When I visited I was overwhelmed by how much was going on. Every night, school night or weekend, there is a multitude of insane and diverse activities.</p>
<p>But the BIGGEST influence on my decision was this website:</p>
<p>dvdfest.org</p>
<p>I highly recommend you visit it if you're thinking about going to Carleton. It's a website full of student made videos, and it's the perfect view of the student life and atmosphere at Carleton.</p>
<p>As a Carleton alumna from the 90s, I will have to agree with everything said here supporting Carleton. It is 100% dead-on, and its character endures over the years. The community of the campus is a huge part of the culture. It doesn't mean that you know everyone by name or even by sight. It does mean that you can meet fellow alumni of any age and have that SOMETHING that allows you have a genuine conversation, even years down the road. Sorry, this is a bit off topic, but it is something that I have come to love about having made my choice to go to Carleton. </p>
<p>That choice, by the way, was also cemented by my campus visit. I fell in love and there was no looking back.</p>
<p>Also, I have to question whether U of C and Carleton do in fact have the same nerdiness, if in fact the U of C students love and thrive in that intense academic atmosphere? In my mind that is a level above in the nerd-scale. Now, if you define nerdiness as just a love of learning and quirky interests, then yes, Carleton students are quite nerdy. But I would offer that the balance of extra-curriculars (of any kind) counteract the nerd factor.</p>
<p>But then again, I AM biased.</p>
<p>I very self-consciously chose the U of C for its "intense academic atmosphere," and I could not be happier with the school.</p>
<p>I don't know if people equate "intense academic atmosphere" with "obsession about grades and performance," because I certainly don't. I think that where Carleton and the U of C really match up is the learning for the sake of learning-- though at the U of C, that learning will probably include spending a decent chunk of your weekend in the library. Maybe that's too much work for some people, but I don't think I'd be quite as happy if I didn't have it.</p>
<p>The first person who really got me thinking about the U of C is a Carleton alum.</p>
<p>Remembered this thread. Revived it, hoping it might help, treesnogger and wolrab.</p>
<p>very helpful! thank you</p>
<p>This is very very helpful!</p>
<p>Centraleagle:</p>
<p>Revived two threads from last year dealing with similar questions of Carleton v. uni.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>My daughter is a current Carleton student and loves it. The campus is beautiful, the facilities are excellent and there will be several brand new dorms that are not just for upper class students. The education she is getting is outstanding! It has met or exceded her expectations. That includes wonderful foreign study experiences and most notably the friends she has made (not just smart but generally happy, informed, and not judgemental). </p>
<p>UChi is a great school too. When we visited several years ago we randomly talked with about 20 students, most undergrads. Only one was happy and she was glad to be done with the place and off with the Peace Corps. Most seniors were guarded in their comments about the school. In addition, one needs to be aware that much of UChi’s reputation derives from it graduate and professional schools. When we finished the UChi visit we concluded that while the undergraduate offerings are very good they are a bit like a mouse being sat on by an elephant (the grad schools).
As to location, UChi is in a terrible location. </p>
<p>Back to Carleton…there are is transportation into the Twin Cities particularly on the weekends and students there love the festivals, restaurants, etc. A little bit of ‘best of both world’ though Northfield, MN is a small (17,000 people, lots of cows) town. </p>
<p>Good luck. I would go with Carleton for one of the truly outstanding liberal arts educations currently available in the USA.</p>
<p>Re: University of Chicago. I read somewhere that its slogan is: “Where Fun Goes to Die.” … My daughter is an extremely happy Carleton sophomore. The academic work is intense, but so is the fun. She gets up to Minneapolis periodically, by shuttle or with a friend who has a car. Like Honest says, best of both worlds.</p>
<p>high school senior applying to both. I know this thread is old, but it was extremely helpful! Thanks for the insight :)</p>
Good luck. You aren’t alone in liking them both for one reason or another. My daughter was deferred and then dinged at Chicago. She’s now at Carleton and is ecstatically happy. Her best friend was waitlisted at Carleton, and is now at Chicago, where she got in early.