<p>This can't be unique; a singing actor (acting singer?) with aspirations to opera or MT, and low family income. Which of the pricey and excellent tier - i.e. CMU, Cincinnati, Oberlin, Steinhardt, etc - is in YOUR experience more generous with talent money? I heard from a student on another board who'd had a full ride at CMU in VP, but I think he may have been in grad school, and I've heard that NYU/Steinhardt is NOT so generous. Any anecdotes?</p>
<p>datripp- Maybe it's the economy or maybe it's supply/demand and the huge numbers of students interested in these programs, but based on last season I was shocked at the low or lack of offers given to very talented applicants for most of these schools. One school that stood out as generous was OCU. They are generous not only in talent scholarships but also academic. And if you are interested in both MT and opera and may switch at a later date, OCU not only has an outstanding MT program but is excellent at classical/opera training. This may definitely be a school you want to consider.</p>
<p>datripp, We were in the same boat as you last year, keeping our fingers crossed for a scholarship offer from the unified auditions. My son received a great talent scholarship from The Hartt School in MT and he couldn't be happier with the school. The financial aid/scholarship package was more than we had hoped for. They also offer VP and work with a local opera house. Can't tell you about the VP quality but the MT is great.</p>
<p>I think what people have to remember is that most schools don't just award talent $$ to kids who they think are talented; the money goes to talented kids whose parents' FAFSA and CollegeBoard profile reveals that the family's EFC does not match with the cost of attending the school. Let me say that a different way: if a really talented kid comes from a family with a very, very comfortable income and the parents can afford to pay the tuition and fees (at least on paper!) that kid won't likely get much in the way of talent money/financial aid. But if a talent kid's paperwork shows that his or her parents cannot afford the school, then the school is usually forthcoming with something. In the best case scenario, that "something" is scholarships and awards, with some reasonable loans sprinkled in. In the worst case scenario, they only offer you loans. </p>
<p>We are solidly middle class and were pleasantly surprised at the scholarships and awards my daughter received from several BFA programs, with the stand-outs being University of the Arts (verrrryyy generous), Ithaca College, Muhlenberg College and (believe it or not!) NYU, which is where she is now. (She also got good financial aid awards from other programs she was admitted to, but those were the best, as I recall. The only place that didn't give her a reasonable financial aid offer was Boston Conservatory, which kind of surprised us, as the auditor told her during the audition that she was in and would be receiving "good news from us" in March.) </p>
<p>My advice, as the parent of a kid who <em>had</em> to have financial aid in order to attend a BFA program, is to audition at a variety of places/programs and sit down when decisions are in and see what the offers are. </p>
<p>Of course, it should go without saying that anyone who is now auditioning should get his or her FAFSA in as soon as humanly possible. As one financial aid officer told us, financial aid is like a big pie: those who get there early are likely to get the biggest pieces. That doesn't mean you have to file the forms the day they go online, but it does mean it is foolish to wait until a few days before the deadline. Get that form in. You won't get any financial aid unless you apply for it. </p>
<p>Best of luck everyone!</p>
<p>With regard to the FAFSA, I believe you can put down your estimated taxes for the current year so you can get the form submitted to all your schools. Later you can go in and make corrections when you have the final numbers and the schools will get that so I agree with NMR that the sooner you get the FAFSA in the better if you will qualify for aid. After you have all your offers in you can call the financial aid offices at the schools you are most interested in and try to get more $- they often work with you especially if they know you got more elsewhere. It is worth the call.</p>
<p>Great point (as usual!) ttmom. You don't have to wait until your parents file their 2008 taxes to fill out and file the FAFSA. You can estimate, but do try to be as accurate as possible. Best wishes to all!</p>
<p>OCU offers big merit awards based on ACT/SAT scores. They are listed on the web site. The MT Dept also offers talent awards, but they told us if you are getting the big academic scholarship, you likely will not get a talent award. When my D auditioned, it seemed the ones getting the talent awards were boys. The year after, a (male) friend was offered a huge talent award (double the largest merit award) because he is super talented and boys are in great demand. As far as need goes, this boy's parents are very wealthy, so it had nothing to do with that. They just wanted him to attend OCU.</p>
<p>Musicmom, that's very good news for the talented boy and his parents, but I honestly have to believe that schools giving a lot of money to kids whose parents and families don't demonstrate a need for that assistance is going to become a thing of the past, if it hasn't already. :) Most schools are feeling the pinch of the current economic crisis, but perhaps OCU is not one of them. (I know that NYU lost a ton of money from their endowment because of investments in Madoff's Ponzi scheme. They are hardly the only ones.)</p>
<p>I believe that, more and more, schools will be giving talent money as part of financial aid packages to families that need them, rather than just awarding $$ to kids whose families won't struggle to pay the bill, just to get the kids to go there.</p>
<p>As an aside, I saw some photos of some of the dorms at OCU and -- wow! -- much much nicer than those my kid lives in in New York at NYU. So maybe OCU uses more than talent money to entice kids to go to school in Oklahoma City rather than, say, New York or Boston.</p>
<p>You probably saw photos of the new dorm (Centennial Hall, I think they named it) that my D lives in. It is amazing. Some of the older dorms are not as impressive.</p>
<p>I can only speak of our experience from 3-4 years ago. Based on my D's discussions with her classmates, nearly all the ones getting talent awards were boys. I don't really know how they look at need when doling out talent awards. I am single with two kids earning less than 40,000 a year and, other than the merit award which is solely based on scores, all my D's financial aid was in loans. This year, since I now have two in college, she did qualify for a small Pell grant. And I know they really wanted this boy (from my D's hs) who got the huge talent award because they asked my D if she had any influence in getting him to choose OCU over his first choice school. She didn't, but apparently money talks! :D </p>
<p>I'm sure this economy will create a lot of changes. I'm just glad she is about to graduate! Son hates school and may or may not continue at the local community college, so I may have just paid my last college tuition!</p>
<p>I think it is important to remember that some schools inflate the actual cost in order to award large scholarships (to many people). High School Students and Parents think....Yes, I received a $10,000.00 a year scholarship to XXXXX school - without knowing that the school's actual cost is inflated. Look at the overall cost of the school and the quality of the education.</p>
<p>talentseeker, what do you mean by the actual cost of the school being "inflated?" </p>
<p>I am guessing that you mean that even though a $10,000 scholarship seems like a lot, it really didn't go far toward paying tuition and expenses at schools that cost a lot more than that. Is that what you were saying? </p>
<p>I would caution every student who is applying for/auditioning for college to KNOW WHAT THE TUITION AND FEES (and cost of attendance) are before you even apply. It should not come as a surprise to anyone applying to New York University that the tuition alone is about $40,000 a year, and that does not include room and board. </p>
<p>This doesn't mean that you should never apply/audition for schools that seem very expensive, because sometimes, expensive private colleges and universities can end up being far more generous with aid (and thus, less expensive to attend) than are some public colleges and universities. It all depends on what the FAFSA says and how much the school's financial aid office is able to award you in terms of scholarships, grants and loans.</p>
<p>I have to say, I don't think need-blind talent scholarships are going to be going away. My S received a substantial talent award from IWU and we never filed a FAFSA. All talent and academic scholarships there are awarded without consideration of a family's financial aid status. Schools are concerned with the "quality" of their classes and seek to fill in-demand programs with the "best" applicants. </p>
<p>That being said, the school also puts together talent awards with substantial need-based packages. S's roommate freshman year (instrumental music major from a middle class family with several children) received a similar talent award as my S and also need-based grants that were generous as well.</p>
<p>I am very familar with NYU and Steinhardt.
I cannot stress how accurrate NotMammaRose was in her first comment. NYU, while not at at need-blind Ivy-levels of aid, is still trying to move away from merit and much more to a need-based approach. While there is still some merit money available both generally, and specifically in Music, the applicant pool is so competitive that the merit/need picture blurs (that is, there are lots of talended applicants with need. Merit alone does not guarantee any real money)</p>
<p>So please, please, please, be realistic. I dont know about OCU or WU, but especially at privates like Oberlin, Cincinnati, and NYU, aid is more and more and more about need. So do your reserach, shop around, fill out the FASFA, and have realistic expectations.</p>
<p>Also, NYU did not lose "a ton of money" with Madoff. At stake is $24 million out of an endowment of $2.1 billion. What NYU did do was sue Madoff's bagman Merkin on December 24, right out of the box, so it got some media attention. Yeshiva and others lost (proportionally) much more.</p>
<p>By the way, one of the limits on NYU financial aid is that $2.1 billion endowment. For comparison Harvard LOST $8 billion last year (a number the size of the total Columbia endowment). NYU is bigger than both (and about 10 times bigger than Princeton), so per-student, its endowment is beans, even without Madoff's "help"</p>
<p>Bloomberg.com:</a> Worldwide</p>
<p>Been There - a quick clarification - University of Cincinnati (CCM) is a state college, not a private.</p>
<p>I guess we have to decide what the OP meant by "generous". A $10k award may be generous but if that leaves you with $40k in loans a year it may not seem generous.</p>
<p>Right, of course, on Cincinnati. I was looking at all the colleges mentioned in the thread and my brain detached from my fingers. Also mis-typed IWU (which is a private, of course) and forgot to mention the Bloomberg link in my message is to the NYU Madoff story.</p>
<p>I need more sleep.....</p>
<p>Anyway, a public/private distinction on aid is not really real. Each university decides what its approach will be, what rersources it has, and (crucially) who its competition is. Places like NYU on Oberlin realize that they generally cannot convince Ivy-bound admits to come based on merit aid. (some exceptions, but the numbers are pretty striking. If you are rich, you go to Cornell or Penn or Brown or Williams over NYU regardless of the NYU aid package, so why bother with merit ) NYU can, however, put together a decent class (talent wise, GPA wise, and board score wise) by trying to better meet need of lower class and (some) middle classs kids with talent who would otherwise not come due to sticker price.</p>
<p>Been There...just so you know, you do not have to be rich to go to the Ivy League schools. To the contrary, they offer 100% need based aid and have very generous packages to lower income students. Also, NYU offers certain programs that the Ivy League schools do not......the BFA is just one example. So, rich kids might choose NYU first due to the program offered. </p>
<p>I have a senior at NYU/Tisch. When she was admitted, she was awarded a Trustee Scholarship. I asked what it was based on and they said it was a merit award, but that the amount of the award fluctuated based on need. But unlike a need based award that can change year to year depending on FAFSA, the amount awarded is the same all four years and is quite substantial in my perspective. This year, as a senior, three other scholarships appeared on her bill. I am not sure the basis other than one named scholarship (for the donor) was through nomination (she doesn't know who nominated her for it). Another scholarship has a name on it...I have no idea what it is for...Al Jolson Scholarship. For us, NYU has been generous. </p>
<p>I think many BFA programs will continue to offer merit scholarships to attract certain candidates. It works differently from program to program and some programs have scholarships just for merit (some are academically based and some are talent based) and some have a mix of merit/need, and some are just need based aid. </p>
<p>My kid applied to 8 BFA programs and got scholarships awarded at seven of them. They varied quite a bit. Some were pretty big. The lowest was from Penn State and I think that is due to being a public institution. Ironically, her highest scholarship award was from NYU, making the total cost less than some of the less expensive schools. I'd have to go back and look it up from four years ago and the amounts awarded from each school....but I recall Syracuse and Ithaca being a lot. However, I don't think this information is that helpful because this is going to vary widely between applicants. The OP describes being a low income family and regardless of merit scholarships, her D has a good chance at need based aid. </p>
<p>I agree with others to get that FAFSA files and you can use 2007 tax returns temporarily and send the 2008 returns when they are available.</p>
<p>Hey, to me, $24 million is a lot of money!!! </p>
<p>And just for the record, I never said that NYU was alone in losing money to Madoff's scheme. Hardly. I was just using that as an example of the current economic climate we all face, including colleges. I mentioned it because my own kid goes to NYU, where she got some very nice scholarships and grants, including several that just appeared (the same way as happened to soozie's D) on her financial aid statement after she had already enrolled.</p>
<p>First hand example of NYU's generosity, one of D's guy friends received a full ride (!) this past year. There was no way his mom could have afforded to send him to NYU with her single income. Yes, he is very talented :D.</p>
<p>A full ride? Wow! That would be a dream come true. Me? I am just happy that NYU made it possible for my D to go there. Without their help, there is no way we could have afforded it.</p>