<p>I agree periscack - that does seem wacky. I would think they would still want to reward the kids that have strong academic credentials/accomplishments. It unfortunately makes Hartt somewhat less attractive because it is just so much more expensive. She is still very interested in Hartt – and we’d support her if that is really what she wants – but it is certainly a consideration.</p>
<p>My daughter was recently accepted into the Tisch program (acting) at NYU. We just receive the financial aid package. I have an EFC of just over $21,000. She received a $9,000 Tisch Scholarship, $4,000 work-study, but sadly we would need to take out more than $44,000 in loans a year. </p>
<p>I called the Financial Aid office to ask how this was calculated and the man on the phone couldn’t tell me anything. He couldn’t tell me about their formula, how the decisions were made. Nothing!</p>
<p>Has anyone else received similar finaid from NYU? Can we justify this kind of debt? Is it worth it?</p>
<p>I typed you a longer message, but it vaporized when I tried to send it to you, so I’ll be briefer here.</p>
<p>Is your daughter a good student? We don’t qualify for need based aid, but UArts gave my daughter $11,500 for merit money. Point Park offered her $10,000 ($8000 academic, $2000 dance scholarship), so I’m guessing if your daughter got merit aid from PP she will get similar merit aid from UArts.</p>
<p>There is plenty of good off-campus apartment stock in Philadelphia, which is something of a big college town in parts. The area in Philadelphia is pretty decent. We were actually more put off by the dorms we saw. Old (or on the old side), four girls in one large bedroom. And no meal plans and no on-campus dining to speak off (plenty in the neighborhood). A freshman has to be pretty independent already to live at UArts.</p>
<p>The dance studios and facilities are first rate in all respects. We looked into a few studios, and the dancers all seemed to be of good caliber and technique. Our reservation, and it should have been obvious but really didn’t hit us until we visited, is that all the students are Arts students. Your daughter won’t be going to school with anyone but performing arts and visual arts students, but that may be more than cool with her.</p>
<p>One more thing. Out of seven auditions my daughter did, UArts was the only school that did not have dance teachers and/or administrators available to speak to the students and the parents – only admissions and financial aid people. We got a kind of “you should be flattered you chose us” vibe that we didn’t get anywhere else, even at Fordham/Ailey. Point Park (at NYC audition), by contrast, had the head of its dance department there, giving a presentation, answering questions, and being available to the parents for the entire length of the audition.</p>
<p>I would recommend Point Park over UArts for my daughter. My niece is a feshman at Point Park in the dance program, and she and my brother and sister-in-law absolutely adore everything about Point Park.</p>
<p>mmd:
I don’t think that is unsual at Tisch, no. They do not meet 100% of need. Your EFC indicates that your family should be able to afford 21K. While you may not agree with that or be able to do that, it seems that after your daughter’s 9K scholarship, you are saying you will have to borrow ALL of the rest of the cost of attending. That implies that you will contribute $0 out of current income (or savings). I don’t think most people would borrow the TOTAL cost of attending. I also do not think most people, unless well to do, can afford to pay the entire amount out of CURRENT income. </p>
<p>It would seem to me (and I am a parent of a child on FA at NYU and at another college), that you could contribute SOMETHING out of current income (or if you have any savings) and not zero. Afterall, a family who has an EFC of zero often is quite low income. If they think your EFC is 21K and even if you cannot afford 21K, it would seem you could afford to put something toward college, rather than to borrow the entire amount. I know we are doing that and have an EFC in the general ballpark. We borrow a bunch but not all of the cost of attending. </p>
<p>I am not sure what your plan was for pay for NYU before your daughter’s FA package came, but you had to expect to have to pay a considerable amount, even if not 53K. So, whatever that amount was that you could afford out of current income or savings, spend and you could borrow the remainder and pay over time. Or…if it doesn’t work for you, attend a different school. You would have to find a school that either has lower costs or agrees to meet 100% of need based aid. But even in YOUR case, 100% of need based aid is gonna take into account that FAFSA indicates an EFC of 21K and not zero.</p>
<p>Sooz - may I call you Sooz? - I really appreciate your jumping in. What I’m taking from this is that we just shouldn’t apply to schools, like NYU, where our paltry little EFC won’t make a dent. Schools that cover 100% of need - they have to be fewer and further between than ever, I’d imagine.</p>
<p>The point soozie is trying to make is that if a family’s EFC is $21K, that family probably can contribute at least <em>some</em> $$ from its current income in order to bring down the total of the loans taken out each year for tuition. </p>
<p>But yes, families and kids should take into account the total cost of attendance and what their EFC is and so forth when they decide where a kid should audition. My own kid went into the NYU audition knowing that it was not only a longshot to get admitted, but it was also a longshot as to whether she could go if admitted, because that would depend on what FA package was offered and whether what was offered worked within our means. We ended up being able to do it, mainly because the scholarships offered in combination with a 529 plan. But it’s quite understandable that not everyone can, or is willing to, take on the COA NYU. (Also, when figuring out the cost, remember that tuition, room and board don’t cover everything. A kid will also need a modest bank account in order to pay for day to day incidentals. Many of the kids at NYU seem to have unlimited resources, but not all. My D doesn’t but gets along fine, though she can’t see as many Broadway shows as many of her peers, even with the student discount.)</p>
<p>datripp…
You surely can call me Sooze, :D. My name is Susan but many call me Susie. </p>
<p>I am not saying you should not apply to schools like NYU. I’m saying that before you let your kid apply to a college, you have to have some idea of how you plan to finance it. It seems that you are expecting to pay nothing out of pocket from your current income or anything from savings and thus either expected the college to give you a very reduced rate, as well as you plan to borrow the entire cost of attending. And I am saying that if they assess that your family can afford 21K per year and even if you truly cannot (I DO understand that), it likely means you can afford SOMETHING, without borrowing the entire amount. You must make in a certain income level if they assessed you as being able to afford 21K. If you were very poor, your EFC would have been close to zero but it is not. So, I’m saying, and I bet we may even be in a similar income bracket, that some would be borrowed and some paid for outright and some is scholarship. I am not clear on what you were expecting. </p>
<p>As far as schools that cover 100% of need…many very selective universities do so, inluding Ivy League schools and other private schools. They do not have merit aid. My D went to Brown University and while there is no merit aid, she got a substantial grant that went up a lot when my second daughter entered NYU as our EFC changed having two in college at the same time. All of her very selective schools offered her good financial aid based on 100% of need (their formulas of course which most used FAFSA and CSS Profile). The MT schools for D2 seemed to have a mix of need based aid and merit based and we were quite pleased with the amounts offered, considering we are not low income folks. We considered ANY money offered in grants and scholarships as a gift, and did not expect the gifts but they have been very nice to get and have really helped. </p>
<p>We let our kids choose any college they wanted to attend regardless of the FA package. It so happens that NYU gave my D her biggest scholarship of all her accepted BFA programs but that is not why she picked it. It has been her first choice school. But we would have allowed her to go to another one. My older D is in grad school now and had a lot of good scholarship offers from places like Columbia and Cornell and several other top schools in her field but chose MIT which gave her no scholarships. I reallize that many do not approach it in this way or cannot. </p>
<p>Therefore, you either have to only allow your child to apply to schools that fit your financial cost criteria, or else tell the child from the outset that they can apply to a certain school that is out of your range financially and see what FA they can get and then decide and tell them that they will only be allowed to attend if the FA package is X amount. One or the other approach works for certain families. For me, and this is a personal choice only, I would not have my child apply to any college that I was not prepared to send them to as I could not face not letting them go if they got in.</p>
<p>I think one thing that many of us forget (and I include myself in this, sometimes!) is that higher education is, at least right now in our country, not a <em>right</em> or something we are owed: it’s something we/you choose to purchase, in the same way (forgive me for the crude analogy) that we/you would purchase, well, a car! How expensive that car is, what features it offers, and most of all, how much of your income you are going to spend for it are all up to you/us. I am sorry to be so blunt, but it’s the way things are. In the end, only individuals and families can ascertain whether that particular college program is worth what they have to pay to purchase it.</p>
<p>Sooze - I’m not sure where that 21K FAFSA number came from - not me, it must have been a later poster? We’re at the 8-10K range, just FYI. And sure, I expect to pay. I’d love to see my kid get a free ride - who, in honesty, would not? - but I certainly have no sense that he’s entitled to it, or feel burned about that. Where did the “right” to it" attitude come in, in my postings, NMRose? I think you’ve both got me confused with someone else, or a whole group, who had higher FAFSA loads and were complaining. I’m NOT complaining. And of course we’ll borrow, take extra jobs, etc, and expect him to work summers, too. My initial question was and is still the one I’m interested in, and I’ve gotten some good feedback. Thanks, all!</p>
<p>datripp…I want to apologize as I did not carefully check the member name out. I made a mistake in my post indeed. There was a discussion going on and a member named “mmd” posted and so there were replies including my own and then you posted on the thread and for some reason, I thought i was talking to the same member again in the same discussion…when in fact, you are an entirely different member with a different question. I had read it wrong thinking your post was his/her follow up and so my response was entirely based on what else she/he had written earlier (thus the 21K reference and much else of what I wrote). I apologize. I now am looking back and realize you joined in on the discussion saying and asking something new and were not part of that discussion preceding it or not even the same member! So, please realize that a bunch of my response was thinking you were “mmd” and obviously, you are not!! Please accept my apologies for not reading the member names closely and just responding to the posts.</p>
<p>Looking back, I got befuddled as I was reading NotMamaRose’s post who was referring to “mmd” and so I was following up on her post (#46) and didn’t pick up that you, who was sandwiched in there, was new to the conversation.</p>
<p>Just to clarify, datripp, I wasn’t thinking about you specifically at all when I made my post. I was honestly talking in general about the feelings and decisions we all, as parents and families, face when making these very difficult decisions about financing our kids’ educations. I do apologize if you thought my comment was directed at you. Had it been, though, I would have used your screen name! I didn’t, because my post was directed at the reading public here in general. :)</p>
<p>No problema, ladies. No offense taken; I just didn’t want you to mistake me for a Diva!
Just a divo’s mother. And you guys do so much for us all, and have so much information - sincerely, I’m grateful every time I read them for your expertise and generosity.</p>
<p>Now that we’ve cleared THAT up - anyone wanna buy a kidney? (kidding…kind of…)</p>
<p>datripp…that would be one unique way to finance college! </p>
<p>I have to say that I hear ya loud and clear on how difficult paying for college is! Believe me, I know. I have two kids who have gone through college, overlapping every year but one and one in a 3.5 year graduate school that we are also funding and I have college loans to the wazoo! In fact, I better get back to work as I need to pay for all of this!!! Posting here, while enjoyable or meant to help others, is only volunteer hours and they are starting to outweigh my hours for pay!</p>
<p>Yes, Sea Sider and ImHopeful- same here. Hartt offered the $7000 talent award but no academic award (though it’s possible they consider academic while giving talent $) Anyway, THAT was her first choice and the audition/interview went great…so it has been a disappointment that it is still just beyond our budget.</p>
<p>Tucker92 that is so good to hear…about PP because my daughter, since Hartt is out of reach, will likely go to PP as a dance major…and perhaps that will end up best in the long run.</p>
<p>Baldwin Wallace, Otterbein both have really good academic scholarship award bars for ALL accepted students, based on GPA and SAT/ACT scores, so if you have a smart AND talented student, apply there. Then you would know automatically that if you got accepted, you would get that award amount (academic merit). As I recall, Otterbein and Ithaca had additional applications you sent in with HS resume stuff for ‘leadership awards’ (again merit, not based on talent.) CCM does the Cincinnatus Scholarship (academic) and we also got a post card to apply for a CCM alumni scholarship - all academic merit. SO, it is really hard to do this in addition to the auditions, and the scheduling, but if you research in advance, find out which MT schools do academic and leadership merit, then apply to those schools early, even if you cannot audition before the early app deadline, you may end up with some $ even before talent $ is doled out. We missed a few deadlines here, so research in advance would have helped. Make sure your kid forwards you emails from colleges, look on line at the college sites, under scholarships. Read the stuff that comes in the mail. Syracuse also has a spring scholarship competition for $ but it takes some effort and you write up a proposal for a civic issue. For the smarty pants MTs, it is worth the searching. I agree that boys get more $ offers. They are a higher commodity. Get used to it. They will get more acceptances, more scholarships, and guess what - there are more jobs out there for them once they graduate, as well, in MT, so better get used to that now!</p>
<p>Oklahoma City University does both academic and talent awards and is very generous if you have high grades and scores. PSU gives talent scholarships to every MT- of varying amounts, but nice since it is a big state school. For us every little bit helps, especially with 2 in college. In addition to these academic/merit awards I wold recommend that candidates take the time to fill out the extra application to every school that offers an honors college as this money can be significant in addition to the others. and though it may be difficult and take more finesse to manage it can be done with MT( my d is doing it).</p>
<p>I have read this entire thread with great interest. We are definitely a middle class family but with today’s economy, money can be tight. I would like to say that just because your FAFSA says according to your family’s income you can contribute X amount of dollars, that does not mean you can! We have one D finishing her masters, who luckily had a full ride scholarship (volleyball) when she went to college. Then we had one S who opted for a private college and even with scholarships is now working on paying back over $100k in student loans. I’m not so worried about that because he has a degree that is in very high demand and his earnings potential is pretty high. This leads me to our youngest D who is interested in MT. We all know this is a very, very competitive job market and many talented and well trained actors are working as waiters and waitresses in between acting jobs. I can’t let my daughter go to a private college where I know she could end up with loans well over $100k after she gets out of school. I do think you need to be realistic about choosing a college your family can afford. Luckily for us there are two public universities with excellent theatre programs (IU and BSU) where we would qualify for In-state tuition. There is one other college in Ohio we are looking at, but in all honestly, the chances are she will end up at one of our fine public universities-even if she doesn’t make it into one of their MT programs. I think sometimes parents want to give their children what they want even when it’s not realistic or feasible. In the long run, I know my D will get a good education at an affordable school and she’ll be grateful down the road that she doesn’t have a hugh debt hanging over her head.</p>
<p>You’re so lucky to have those great public U. options. We don’t, alas; I get no positive feedback on any of the programs in Connecticut at the public schools. Hard to believe; so near to NYC/Boston, yet so far!</p>