<p>I knew some undergrads at Harvard who had younger friends/siblings who were waitlisted when they applied. The undergrads would discourage visiting admits under the theory that their friends/siblings were then more likely to get off the waitlist. I guess there are still Harvard undergrads pulling that. Too bad if you fell for it. Welcome to the real world. Hope you like the college you chose.</p>
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So by your theory, there is no such thing at Stanford or Yale.</p>
<p>It is unfortunate that some admitted students felt they had a bad time at Visitas. Two observations in that regard:</p>
<p>Years ago, my nephew had an absolutely terrible time at Stanford’s prefrosh weekend (similar complaints as above). He ended up attending anyway, and loved his experience there.</p>
<p>Secondly, no one holds back on criticizing Harvard, so if the experiences of those unhappy prefrosh are truly reflective of life on campus, then we would be hearing about how awful Harvard is, how freshmen are suffering and nearly brought to tears over how they are treated there, etc. etc. People would be lambasting Harvard life, no holds barred. This is obviously not the case. Harvard has a 98+% retention rate, and my D has had a wonderful four years at Harvard.</p>
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<p>Ohhhhhhhhhhh, I know who your are… 
Yes I am a PAC Man! 
#1</p>
<p>Well, you can only attend one college at a time anyway, so the choice for those who got cross admissions is always hard, and you have to follow your heart. On the other side, though, it’s not wise to make this difficult yet important choice based only on the snapshot experience of the pre-frosh visit. Most, if not all, would consider that being admitted by H (or any other top schools) is itself an “extraordinary accomplishment” and most, if not all, of the lucky ones are/were some sort of “stars” in their own high schools/local communities… So, it’s reasonable for you to have certain “expectations” and to have the “unbearable frustrations” when those expectations were not met in any way - because no matter what a star you are/were elsewhere, you are now just a normal kid again and just one of many on the campus. You have to earn all your “credentials/reputations” all over again, and you wont be treated like a star any more. Not everyone would be comfortable and/or prepared for that Just a quick thought since it seems nobody discussed this aspect so far.</p>
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<p>And guess what? You have to repeat that process all over again in real life…the time when it actually matters.</p>
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<p>Don’t know about Yale but at Stanford studenta are more likely to try to help their younger friends/siblings get into Harvard. Harvard is still the shining light on the hill of American higher education. It’s much more difficult to get admitted to Harvard than Stanford. (Stanford’s low admit rate is mostly the result of padding stats by getting unqualified applicants to apply.) And it’s the only school that consistently beats Stanford among applicants admitted to both. Finally, because it is the one college everyone wants to attend, unethical applicants are far more likely to get on CC and bad mouth Harvard hoping that others will lose interest and increase the odds of the unethical applicant having an opportunity to matriculate.</p>
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<p>Right, because Harvard doesn’t do that. What’s that? No required essays! lol.</p>
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<p>As someone who is attending Harvard in the fall, I respectfully disagree. Harvard actually is more guilty of this that Stanford is. They send the application and/or viewbook to literally everyone who scores above a 1800 on the SAT. Stanford on the other hand has been consistently voted as the number 1 dream school for applicants (A Princeton review annual survey). I know it was my dream school. 
I think this leads to a lot of people applying. However, I still chose Harvard over Stanford so perhaps in my case, there is some truth to your argument. :)</p>
<p>Wait, Princeton beats Stanford in cross-admits too.</p>
<p>Doss12, </p>
<p>you’ve got to be kidding. Harvard wins hands down the award for padding-with-unqualified-applicants. </p>
<p>take a look at the application packages you have to submit to each of HYPS, and you’ll see that not only does harvard send out material to more people, but also its application is by far the easiest to submit. </p>
<p>in its “supplement,” there’s no required 2nd essay. those other schools require one. AND each of the other schools asks you – in some way – to write at least a short piece that ties yourself to that school. a “why Yale” or something like that.</p>
<p>besides wanting to “up” its applicant numbers, what possible other reason could Harvard have for eliminating those other requirements? the really strong students, the ones who are qualified and whom you’d want to apply, are ready/willing/able to submit extra stuff – the same sort of thoughtful things they’re submitting to YPS. </p>
<p>Harvard’s EZ application may make the admit rate look better, but not to anyone who knows anything about college admissions.</p>
<p>Hparent’s comment is right on target. Pre-frosh hoping to be wooed by other Harvard students are misinterpreting the culture of the school. Harvard is a collection of peers, most were stars in their h.s. and often in their larger communities. All of the students I met were tolerant, engaging and interesting but I did not find them solicitous. In many ways, I prefer this–they treated me as a peer–not as a younger sibling.</p>
<p>That said, the intersection of Yardfest and Visitas was probably a bad idea.</p>
<p>Generally, Harvard (6.2%) and Stanford (7.1%) are equally competitive to get into.</p>
<p>The next tier is Princeton (8.4%), Yale (7.4%), Columbia (6.9%) and MIT (9.8%).</p>
<p>Imo, the varying admission rates are determined more by self-selection than actual competitiveness.</p>
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<p>I really don’t think that is true. AFAIK, Stanford only loses out to Harvard when it comes to cross-admits.</p>
<p>according to its own statistics, Stanford has never won in cross-admits against either Harvard or Yale. it has consistently won since 2005 in cross-admits against Princeton (with the exception of 2008). </p>
<p>this information is taken from a report presented to Stanford’s faculty last fall by Dean Shaw (Stanford’s head of admissions). the report, prepared by Stanford’s admissions office, provided a general report on Stanford admissions and included information on cross-admits.</p>
<p>Oh. Sorry, I didn’t know about that report. Yale beating Stanford in cross-admits is actually somewhat surprising…</p>
<p>PrincetonDreams – </p>
<p>you have a really odd way of assigning tiers. you said: “Generally, Harvard (6.2%) and Stanford (7.1%) are equally competitive to get into. The next tier is Princeton (8.4%), Yale (7.4%), Columbia (6.9%) and MIT (9.8%).”</p>
<p>you give no indication that you’re setting up tiers based on anything other than admit rate – a really shaky way to go… </p>
<p>BUT – </p>
<p>even IF that were a reliable way to go – it makes no sense to put #1 (Harvard at 6.2%) and #3 (Stanford at 7.1%) in Tier One, and then #2 (Columbia at 6.9%) and #4 (Yale at 7.4%) in Tier Two with two other schools that have 8.4% (Princeton) and 9.8% (MIT) - after all, both of Columbia’s and Yale’s admit rates are mathematically much closer to those of Harvard and Stanford. </p>
<p>i think the better argument is that they’re all fairly close in difficulty of admission – especially when you find out about all the shenanigans some of them (like Harvard with its EZ aplication) engage in to jack up their application numbers…</p>
<p>but even if you want to make tiers – your math is pretty strange.</p>
<p>As far as Harvard’s easy application, it got my D to apply. H and I visited Harvard while D was at another Ivy’s program this summer. After touring Harvard, H couldn’t believe D was not considering. At the very end of December, he finally talked D into applying and she did only because the app took no extra work.</p>
<p>After a long, long admission season wait, D learned that she’d been waitlisted at her favorite, Princeton, but accepted to Yale after SCEA deferral and amazingly, Harvard. All of the sudden, Harvard didn’t seem quite as pretentious as she’d believed. Over the summer she’d visited all the other schools to which she applied except Harvard. In April, she re-visited Yale and liked it quite a bit, but not enough. She then visited Harvard for the first time and was swept off her feet. (Neither visit was during admitted student days.)</p>
<p>So, for D, the easy application set the course for her future. It also got Harvard an application they liked that wouldn’t have been submitted otherwise. I don’t know about padding, but their strategy has worked for us!</p>
<p>don’t get me wrong, PrincetonDreams – i think Stanford is an awesome school. just wanted to report some facts to fill in the picture.</p>
<p>i don’t think it’s at all surprising that Yale would do well in cross-admits vis a vis Stanford. for people who like warm weather, Stanford’s obviously the place. many love Yale’s residential college system. it depends upon what you’re looking for.</p>
<p>anyway, they’re both great schools offering great educations. ;-)</p>
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<p>Not true - according to those same statistics you cite, Stanford won in cross-admits against Yale in 2002 *and *2003 (and who knows how the cross-admit battles went before then).</p>
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<p>In the past 10 years or so, Stanford lost to Princeton only once, in 2008, when it was 49-51. Compare that with the years around it, when it was typically 63-37 in favor of Stanford, and a few years ago, when it was in the high 50s in favor of Stanford.</p>