<p>Is there the same amount of pressure (to publish, etc.) on professors at prestigious LACs as there is at the top universities?</p>
<p>hoedown: what would the difference be in earnings (if you know) in teaching at Columbia College v Columbia University or Samford v Stanford? This is a great thread for me..this is what my D has wanted to be for a long time. Her second goal, LOL, was to become a politician but she is WAY to honest for that!</p>
<p>jaimie17 - when I was at Wellesley, a beloved teacher failed to get tenure due to the publish or perish criterion</p>
<p>zagat - when I was at Stanford Business School, I liked having faculty from "the real world" - they were few, as I recall, and tended more to be lecturers not on the tenure track, teaching one course alongside their other career. I would think students at less research-oriented universities would like it even more.</p>
<p>thanks, jmmom. I suppose I am going to have to think a bit harder about whether or not the benefits will outweigh such a high-stress environment.</p>
<p>jmmom, the top business schools are reaching out to industry to get more real world profs. They do seem to make it a nice life, teaching one or two classes the terms you choose and allowing for your consulting/travel schedule. When I retire my kid's college debt, I'm seriously considering it.</p>
<p>Been there, done that, both as adjunct (horrible way to make a living--no bennies, bouncing between campuses) and as a full-time instructor. Now my son thinks he might want to be an aademic. I haven't advised him against it-he's a natural teacher, but I'm glad he's going into the sciences, not the humanities. Unless you enjoy politics, it's no way to live.</p>
<p>Avg salary for Profs/Associate Profs:</p>
<p>Columbia College (MO) $57,000/$50,600
Columbia U $134,200/$88,800</p>
<p>Samford $76,400/$58,300
Stanford $142,600/$98,700</p>
<p>My baccalaureate alma mater: $66,800/$53,700
University of Michigan (grad school): $117,800/$80,900</p>
<p><tolkein> With great pay comes great responsibility. </tolkein></p>
<p>My daughter wants to be a classics professor. She's majoring in classics, minoring in early Christian lit. It will be a long, tough road with, I suppose, not a huge salary at the end.</p>
<p>Teach at the University of the South Pacific - a number of campuses including Samoa and Fiji. Maybe no tenure, but you could get a very good tan! (Not 100% k here - one of my favorite professors had seriously considered this as a first job, interviewed and everything).</p>
<p>If anyone is interested in college teaching as a career, I'd suggest a subscription to the Chronicle of Higher Educaton as a gift. They have lots of job hunting advice in there plus a thick ad section every week.
The articles on life in academe alone are worth the price of subscription (it is pricey).</p>
<p>dstark:</p>
<p>If you can land a tenure-track position at a good school, it's a fantastic job. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, the process of getting the PhD. and then then trying to land a tenure-track position is pretty much like doing hard-time at Alcatraz.</p>
<p>This speech that Prof. Tim Burke gave to the Students at Swat's freshmen orientation in 2001 is an interesting read and gives a good overview on being a professor:</p>
<p>He has more detailed advice in these two blog entries (that are not for the squeamish):</p>
<p>Carolyn, thanks for the COHE mention.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, great links. I hope anybody who is thinking of becoming a professor reads these. I had no idea how brutal the process of trying to become a professor can be.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, its too bad most middle-aged people don't have the time, ability, or money to go to places like Swarthmore.</p>
<p>If somebody opened a college up like Swarthmore for 50 year old students, I wonder how that college would do?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Marite, I'm not saying that females and minorities are not treated unfairly sometimes by their colleagues or the administration. I'm saying that many departments are CONSCIOUSLY trying to HIRE women and minorities.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is not true. Universities hire research professors on merit. There is very little, if any, affirmative action.</p>
<p>
[quote]
hoedown: what would the difference be in earnings (if you know) in teaching at Columbia College v Columbia University or Samford v Stanford? This is a great thread for me..this is what my D has wanted to be for a long time.
[/quote]
I personally don't think it's fair to compare income at tenure track positions between different schools. Academia generally does not pay well. If you are able to land a professorship at a respectable school, chances are you would make a killing in industry (in the sciences at least).</p>
<p>
[quote]
Interesteddad, its too bad most middle-aged people don't have the time, ability, or money to go to places like Swarthmore.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Ain't it the truth? It's a shame to waste it on the kids!</p>
<p>It took me taking a year off in college to really appreciate the opportunity to just have fun learning from these incredible teachers.</p>
<p>I think that's why I get a burr under my saddle at the binge drinking, the kids who say "yuk, I don't want to spend all my time studying, I want to party, dude...", and the kids who care about absolutely nothing except whether or not a college will get them into a "top" law school.</p>
<p>I'm all for those parts of college, too. But, the scorn for the notion of academics, just for the fun of it, bugs me because it really is a once in a lifetime opportunity, especially at $40k per year!</p>
<p>Read some of Richard Rodriguez's essays.</p>
<p>Here are some interesting items to read re grad school in the humanities
by Thomas H. Benton from The Chronicle of Higher Education. He indicates that only 50% of humanities Ph.D.s will achieve tenured positions. (Modern Language Assoc. estimates only 20% for English Ph.D.s.)</p>
<p>"So you want to go to grad school"
<a href="http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/06/2003060301c.htm%5B/url%5D">http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/06/2003060301c.htm</a></p>
<p>"If you must go to grad school"
<a href="http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/07/2003071701c.htm%5B/url%5D">http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/07/2003071701c.htm</a></p>
<p>"The 5 'virtues' of successful graduate students"
<a href="http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/09/2003090201c.htm%5B/url%5D">http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/09/2003090201c.htm</a></p>
<p>Also, this site, which includes many well-written posts (and useful links) from an untenured academic in history, who eventually gave up on finding a permanent post:
<a href="http://www.invisibleadjunct.com/%5B/url%5D">http://www.invisibleadjunct.com/</a>
This blog explains how overcrowded the Ph.D "market" is and how difficult it is to compete.</p>
<p>"This is not true. Universities hire research professors on merit. There is very little, if any, affirmative action."</p>
<p>Hm, really? WHy is this on UCSD's website then?</p>
<p>"In addition, it is the policy of the University to undertake affirmative action, consistent with its obligations as a Federal contractor, for minorities and women, for persons with disabilities, and for special disabled veterans, Vietnam-era veterans, and any other veterans who served on active duty during a war or in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge has been authorized. The University commits itself to apply every good faith effort to achieve prompt and full utilization of minorities and women in all segments of its workforce where deficiencies exist. The efforts conform to all current legal and regulatory requirements, and are consistent with University standards of quality and excellence." </p>
<p>Or how about this, from NYU?</p>
<p>"New York University's Equal Opportunity Office is responsible for advancing and monitoring the University's equal employment opportunity and affirmative action policies, procedures, and programs. It does so by making known the University's commitment to employ minority and women faculty and staff, by consulting with units on the implementation of these policies, and by carrying out utilization analyses for minority and women relative to national baseline data."</p>
<p>Or this, from Grinnell:</p>
<p>"The Minority Scholar-in-Residence Program grows out of the conviction that a strong representation of minority scholars on the faculties of liberal arts colleges is essential. The presence of African American, Asian American, Hispanic American, and Native American scholars has a twofold effect: First, it provides greater diversity of experience and perspective within the faculty and in the curriculum; and second, minority scholars provide necessary role models, especially for minority students. They help attract minority students to liberal arts colleges and enhance their experience once there. </p>
<p>Recognizing this important and beneficial effect, member institutions of the Consortium for a Strong Minority Presence at Liberal Arts Colleges, an association of selective undergraduate institutions, have developed a program to meet this challenge. Its immediate aim is to assist minority scholars in the early stages of their careers. The further aim of the program is to produce a pool of minority scholars who will have firsthand experience teaching at liberal arts colleges and may, therefore, choose to apply for positions at member institutions of the consortium or at similar institutions as these become available."</p>
<p>I am by no means implying that this shouldn't be done, just pointing out that it IS done.</p>
<p>To anyone who wants to get a PhD, consider this:</p>
<p>You will not spend your time teaching if you work at a top research university. You will spend your time researching. You are a researcher, not a teacher. Getting good jobs means doing good research. Even then it's a total crapshoot.</p>
<p>Though I realize the prestige isn't there nor the challenge of teaching upperdivision classes and students, a growing segment of the academic landscape is the community college. </p>
<p>My experience is that many of the flaws of more prestigious institutions occur here as well, whenever you get several hundered intelligent and opinionated people together politics will develop. Tenure occurs after 3 years and research /publications are not part of the equation. The focus is on teaching. I know a biologist who applied for a tenure track position. He'd been working in research at a top research university. Didn't make the cut-no teaching experience.</p>
<p>If you are in the core, gen ed areas, math, English, etc you will have many students who are unprepared and unmotivated but you will also encounter many exceptional students. If you are in a more specialized field where the students come to you for the specific content you teach you will find many bright, talented, and extremely motivated students. And when you encounter them you know you have the opportunity to make a profound difference in their lives.</p>
<p>I have 3 high achieving, academically successful children. They will succeed (probably) wherever they go and with whatever faculty they encounter. They are self-confident and have their father and me to help guide them through the academic experience. When I encounter a first generation immigrant in one of my classes, the first member of her family to ever attend college, I know that I have a great responsibility. If I were careless I could break her and her dreams but if I look and listen carefully and guide her she can achieve her goals. I will never teach graduate students and enjoy the challenge of their questioning but I daily see the spark of passion grow to a flame. It's a pretty good life.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You will not spend your time teaching if you work at a top research university
[/quote]
</p>
<p>That has not been my experience at Michigan. While some professors may be able to use grants to buy out of their teaching altogether, I don't believe that's a large proportion of the faculty. Perhaps its different elsewhere.</p>
<p>Research and publication are important, but I don't think it's common for a professor to spend NO time teaching.</p>