<p>They’re actually not EECS requirements, save E190…They’re the CoE requirements akin to the 7 course breadth requirement in L&S. That’s what I’ve been trying to convey by saying that they don’t directly contain any EE or CS content.</p>
<p>The discussion of whether Physics 7B, Math 53/54 are really necessary for CS majors is a pointless argument. Those classes are very useful and, in my opinion, very worthwhile to take regardless of whether it has any direct connection to the CS field. While used very infrequently, there are cases when programmers would incorporate linear algebra into their codes. In reality, very little of what we learn is applicable to our majors. Sure, you can say that none of those classes are necessary for a CS major, but do you even need to know high school math to be able to program?</p>
<p>@soulkamikaze: +1. Yeah, those classes are pretty useful, but the argument here is whether they are the determining factors between two degrees. I personally feel that everyone at Berkeley should take Phys 7A/7B. </p>
<p>As for needing high school math to be able to program, CS teaches us how to program but focuses more on why those programs work. CS, by definition, is the study of algorithms – not learning to program. In that regard, yeah, high school math is actually pretty important. Surprising, isn’t it? Ideas such as what a function is and how recursion works evolve from a maturation of ideas in math. How well a program runs and thereby what differentiates a good program from a bad one (efficiency) is represented in orders of growth which is analyzed through differential calculus and summations. In EE, the propagation delay is fundamentally derived from exponential growth (capacitance). As far as I know, these ideas are what we learned in high school (or Math 1A and 1B, heh). From there, ideas from math are field-specific (ie. if you’re into graphics, you need linear algebra. If you do networking, then graph theory is important). As for the notion of not learning applicable ideas, I find that holds true for majors other than CS, especially at Berkeley. What we learn are umbrella ideas, and if we choose to enter the industry at some point, we will be working on a specific topic under the idea. Production level software follows the concepts, ideas, practices, and idioms taught in classrooms. </p>
<p>All this still does not answer the original question though. What differentiates a BA from a BS when we talk about fields such as math, physics, computer science, chemistry, etc?</p>
<p>There are a number of incompatible philosophies for naming degrees different things, with different naming philosophies being in fashion at different points in time. For a while, BS degrees were given for vocationally oriented programs while AB degrees were given for liberal arts education. (Interestingly enough, the service academies, being vocational schools of a very specific kind, only confer BSs, so a number of current and former commissioned officers actually hold BSs in humanities such as English, History, etc.)</p>
<p>The notion of BSs being conferred for “sciences” and ABs being for “arts/humanities” appears to be a newish development (perhaps confused by the fact that physics and astronomy were considered arts/humanities [terms which in turn had very different meanings a century ago than they do today] for a long time). The distinction between ABs and BSs as having to do with rigor seems to be a particularly new development mainly common in state-supported schools.</p>
<p>Anyway, since nobody in the Chancellor’s office sits down and thinks about whether a particular degree program should merit a BS or an AB degree (and even if someone did, it’s unclear which degree naming philosophy s/he would subscribe to), the different colleges at Cal award BS vs AB degrees for largely historical reasons, namely what naming philosophy was in vogue when the college last reorganized its degree programs. At Cal, it has just so happened that L&S and CED award ABs, and that the other undergraduate colleges award BSs. </p>
<p>So this leads to weird situations in which two students with identical transcripts could have a AB from L&S, or a BS from COC or CNR. It also leads to incongruities such as CNR conferring BSs in fields like Environmental Economics & Policy and Conservation & Resource Studies, and L&S awarding ABs in Physics, Astrophysics, Chemistry, etc.</p>
<p>One particularly interesting example is the program in Environmental Science. The degree requirements (literally every single requirement, including breadths) for Environmental Science are identical in L&S and CNR, but depending on the college the student chooses to associate himself with, the degree conferred could be either an AB or a BS.</p>
<p>what if a major is in 2 departments?
for example, EEP (Enivironmental Economics and Policy) is in both L&S and CNR. However, in CNR you get a BS</p>
<p>can someone in L&S petition to get a BS instead of the BA?</p>
<p>^no you can’t, but you can switch to CNR and get a BS from them</p>
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<p>Both MIT and Caltech offer only BS degrees, and both schools offer some humanities majors. {Actually, MIT inverts its degree with the “SB” designation, but no matter.} Hence, you could earn a BS in English from Caltech.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.hss.caltech.edu/humanities/undergrad[/url]”>http://www.hss.caltech.edu/humanities/undergrad</a></p>
<p>@sakky: I was going to point out the same thing. </p>
<p>I don’t understand why the industry has certain assumptions about the type of education someone received simply by the type of degree when there is so much discrepancy amongst the assignment of degrees.</p>
<p>Why would someone go to MIT for a humanities major… One it is is expensive, and two chances are if you got into MIT you would have got into several cheaper schools that are much better in the Humanities (i.e. Berkeley) (though their Classics department’s translation of the Commentarii de Bello Gallico is very useful for Latin 100 this semester)</p>
<p>(keep in mind my comments above are actually coming from a humanities major, I am a double major)</p>
<p>I actually know someone who got a B.S. in English from Caltech…I spent a lot of time on the campus since I did some work there during high school, so I had the chance to meet quite a few people – one of which told me an interesting story 
They were particularly grateful for the English program since after two years at Caltech, they were “burnt out” from the intensity of Caltech’s various science/math curricula, and they no longer had the will to excel in technical courses. Instead, they explored their more creative side (after finishing most of the core) and graduated with a B.S. in English. </p>
<p>I don’t know if anyone would actually go to those schools with the intention of a humanities major though…</p>
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<p>Regarding the expense, we have to keep in mind that MIT runs a highly aggressive financial aid program such that it may actually be cheaper to go to MIT than to an instate public school. I can certainly think of quite a few people who paid nearly nothing to go to MIT because of the generous aid. </p>
<p>Secondly, not everybody lives in California or some other state with a strong public university system. Let’s face it, plenty of people live in states where the public flagship is rather mediocre. MIT doesn’t cost much more than does Berkeley as an OOS student, even without factoring in aid. </p>
<p>However, I think the most important reason is in regards to inconnu’s point. I don’t know that many people go to MIT with the intent of majoring in humanities. But people change. Some people discover while in college that they don’t really love science and technology as much as they thought, and certainly not to the level that MIT would require. MIT therefore allows those who discover that they would rather major in the humanities the option to do so. Even if you never use that option, the fact that you could use that option serves as valuable assurance for prospective MIT students that they are not completely locked into a technical major.</p>
<p>From looking at Berkeley web site. A person with a BS or BA in CS from Berkeley. Can get jobs as in software engineer at IBM, Lock Heed, and so on. All of the CS classes are the same.</p>
<p>I know some who got an BA in CS and a BA in Math from Berkeley.</p>
<p>I recently read that BA’s are better for getting jobs than BS’s</p>
<p>Do you remember where you read it, SamuelT? I’m interested in reading what they have to say.</p>