Why are master's programs overflowing with international students?

Is getting a master’s degree the easiest way to immigrate to America for someone with no family or connections and who has never been to America?

Is this why master’s programs are overflowing with international students? It sure looks like it - unlike a bachelor’s in America which can cost a lot, you can acrually get a master’s for free/get paid for it especially in engineering. And a masters is just 2 years while bachelors is 4. And at the end of it all you are a Master of Science, and not a Bachelors (more immigration benefits).

With all these factors in mind, it sure feels like masters is the easiest way to immigrate here.

Sometimes a masters program is a pathway to a good PhD program, not necessarily the pathway for immigration.

I understand that its much easier to get an H1b visa with a masters degree. Even at full pay it’s 2 years vs 3 or 4. I don’t think most internationals are getting their graduate degrees paid for.

There’s both good and bad to that. Grad programs factor into prestige of undergrad programs, and prestige is a powerful metric for advertising. So a renowned grad program MAY be associated with a so so undergrad program at the same school - they don’t need to excel at undergrad teaching, because the grad program does enough for the ratings.
If it bothers you, find a program that does lots of DoD work.

Unlike undergraduate programs, graduate programs often offer funding irrespective of state of residency or nationality, especially in STEM disciplines requiring teaching assistants, which often go begging for domestic students to fill the slots.

Based on what I’ve seen and the more recently graduated engineers I work with, I’m thinking full pay is pretty common.

Don’t have any data though, so maybe I’m way off base.

It’s almost assuredly the increased ease of immigration. It’s the difference between an EB-2 and EB-3 visa for permanent residency.

There are really a few reasons that this happens off the top of my head. One of them is definitely immigration. If a foreign student’s ultimate goal is to move to the US and work here, then the easiest way to do that is with a student visa, which gets them here while attending a US school, and that US school helps better the prospects of finding a job in the US. It is comparatively difficult to go to school in most other countries and then land a job here in the States based on the degree from a school that most here will not know. This effect is exacerbated in fields like aerospace, where foreign nationals have a difficult time finding jobs in the first place due to the high percentage of them that are defense-related.

There’s also the issue of the fact that there are so many good-paying jobs for American citizens and those who already reside here with only a BS in engineering that there is less incentive to go to graduate school in the first place. It’s though to convince Joe Engineer from Pittsburgh to attend graduate school when he can start off making $60k or $70k per year with just his BS and will take probably a decade to make that money back if he instead chooses graduate school. For US students, going to graduate school is instead an optional choice that gets used more for helping find a specific type of job rather than a job in general. Foreign students often need that extra degree from a US school to be competitive in the first place.

Most of the international students in the MS program in my graduate department were getting their degrees paid for, but this varies highly by department (even within a given school). International PhDs are like any other PhD and are nearly universally paid.

Eh, yes and no. Graduate programs contribute considerably more to the prestige of a department and pretty much overshadow any contribution that undergraduate programs make even in the undergraduate rankings (for the most part), this much is true. That said, there can be some real, underappreciated advantages to programs that are like this (so long as they don’t totally neglect their undergraduates). I personally think that undergraduate research is a vastly underutilized resource and an excellent learning tool for students.

The more prestigious graduate programs tend to have a larger variety of high-quality research opportunities even for undergraduates, and this can offset their sometimes middling teaching. That said, not everyone cares about undergraduate research (for better or worse) and many people don’t even really consider it as a factor when looking at undergraduate programs, so schools with a good teaching reputation get that credit in these decisions while programs with stronger research programs often get pilloried, at least around these parts.

What you said was 100% true aeons ago - foreign students needed the extra advantage. I was one of them. But there’s another reason. That is, OPT. That is, practical training, which is a very convenient way to get a temp work permit for ‘practical training’. Back in those days getting an OPT visa stamp was as simple as strolling to your local international student advisor or local INS office.

Today the reality has changed a bit, in that a lot of foreign graduates end up competing among themselves (with other MS degreed compatriots, and with people with no US degrees whatsoever). This makes an expensive full pay MS degree dubious at best, especially from middle tier schools.

Also, today, in good schools, it takes a Herculean GPA to get in, foreign or domestic student. I have a few new domestic hires at work from the usual Big 10 schools that got out with a low 3.0 GPA and would not have a chance of getting an MS degree at the same school because it takes a 3.7 and stellar GRE’s to get in. Mind you we’re talking UIUC or Purdue and the such, and if someone is good enough to pull a 3.7 EECS or EE at Purdue they aren’t going to (a) work for Podunk Software and Cupcakes or (b) go back to Purdue for an MSEE. They’ll head straight for the big name companies or startups.

The end result is that fewer domestic students will apply to MS programs (the good ones) and for the 2nd tier schools there’s really no point in getting an MS degree if you have a 1st tier BS. If you’re a foreign student and can get in to good schools you probably will do a PhD or be good enough to get some funding. Since you’re in a good school you see that more than anything else I am guessing.

Companies also are a bit less likely to fund part time MS degrees, and this drops the number even more. People want the allmighty BSEE + MBA but in reality what does that buy you? not a whole lot.

So, who can even apply for such MS schools? you guessed it. Internationals.

As far as I know, OPT is not much more than walking in to the International Student Office even now. Also, there’s no cap on the OPT, so Im not sure what you meant by internationals competing against each other.

I may be wrong here, but atleast in engineering, there are hardly any students (local or international) who really pay through Masters programs (even those who say from the get go that they will not be going for the PhD). Yes,they wont be living like full time engineers and will be living like students in general,but they don’t have to worry about coming up with $20k+ tuition bill year after year (like their undergrad counterparts).

Third point I agree, but how does a “foreign undergrad GPA” compare against a US undergrad GPA? Not at all in my opinion.

A lot of the internationals seem to have attended hardly any difficult colleges in their home country, and gotten “95%” or other high metrics that the US Masters admissions office cant really decipher, and gives them the benefit of the doubt. Like you said, it ends up being a win-win here, since the professors need heads, and the international students need entry into the country.

There are a reasonable number of MS students that pay their way (at least at first). Many others find funding in the form of assistantships and then many also get their tuition paid by their employers, but there is a nontrivial percentage that pay out of pocket, and this demographic tends to be more international-heavy.

How does an undergraduate GPA from UIUC compare to an undergraduate GPA from UCLA? This isn’t a uniquely international problem. Every school has different grading policies and practices, and GPAs, even among US schools, are difficult to compare directly pretty much across the board.

I think you must be speaking from a lack of experience here, because there are plenty of international students who went to prestigious schools in their home (or other) countries. I’d suggest the more likely explanation is that you just aren’t all that familiar with schools outside of the US.

Further, of course US graduate schools can decipher at 95% on a transcript. Just because it is foreign to you does not mean that it is foreign to those who admit foreign graduate students and are quite familiar with these metrics.

Professors need heads, sure, but they don’t want to take just anyone. It’s not a matter of just filling a chair and giving them a problem. There are a nontrivial number of graduate students who leave their programs before finishing, and when that happens, it is a huge blow to the advisor as well. Generally, professors pay their students tuition and stipends out of their grant money in compensation for those students working on the research associated with that grant. If the student fails out or just isn’t cutting it in the research program, that is a lot of wasted time and money for the professor.

In other words, professors have a vested interest in only taking on graduate students who they feel reasonably confident will be successful graduate students. This is exactly why having research experience as an undergraduate and good recommendation letters (preferably based on this experience) is such a boon for graduate admissions.

It’s my strong impression that many foreign graduate students in the US come here with the intention/hope of staying after they’re done. Plus, American universities are generally the most prestigious, and that’s a big deal in a lot of countries.

That used to be almost universally the case. Lately, though, with the industrialization of India and China, a larger percentage are electing to go back home when they finish.

To boneh3ad’s point, I’ve known several very good engineers to work in the US for 3-7 years then return to point of origin. Didn’t used to see that.

@50N40W returns may happen more due to visa regulations more than out of choice now, but it is still not happening a whole lot is it?

Yes it is happening a surprising amount, and it is increasingly by choice.

Is there a chance of the H1b quota increasing in the near future?

Either way, I would rather have someone who did 4-6 years of education here given preference over someone who has never been here and coming here for what is called a “body shop” (no nameIT consultancies). Current law gives equal chance in the lottery to all, which is wrong.

Immigration rules could certainly stand to change. There are ways to get yourself a green card outside of the lottery, as I have a good friend who did that. However, he had to hire a lawyer to navigate the process, so it could definitely use some amendment. If I recall, you have to make the case that your skills are of national interest, basically.

<<<as far="" as="" i="" know,="" opt="" is="" not="" much="" more="" than="" walking="" in="" to="" the="" international="" student="" office="" even="" now.="" also,="" there’s="" no="" cap="" on="" opt,="" so="" im="" sure="" what="" you="" meant="" by="" internationals="" competing="" against="" each="" other.="">>>

OPT’s competing against each other, and OPT’s competing against H1B’s especially agency originated. Check the Happy Schools web site and you’ll see.

<<<third point="" i="" agree,="" but="" how="" does="" a="" “foreign=”" undergrad="" gpa"="" compare="" against="" us="" gpa?="" not="" at="" all="" in="" my="" opinion.="">>>

That’s the thing. It doesn’t, yet I see schools that are fairly difficult to get in with a US undergrad (anyone have a 3.7 or so undergrad in engineering from a GOOD US school? ) be full of international students for their MS programs. How do they get in? Hint: I do not know.

Check the Grad Cafe site and see what stats one needs to get into an MS Engineering in a good school. Frightening. Yet lots of foreign students seem to be getting in. Are they THAT good? we should have cars running on horseradish sauce with all this brain power. Don’t get me wrong, I was one of those students 35 years ago… But things have changed.

<<<either way,="" i="" would="" rather="" have="" someone="" who="" did="" 4-6="" years="" of="" education="" here="" given="" preference="" over="" has="" never="" been="" and="" coming="" for="" what="" is="" called="" a="" “body=”" shop"="" (no="" nameit="" consultancies).="" current="" law="" gives="" equal="" chance="" in="" the="" lottery="" to="" all,="" which="" wrong.="">>>

There is such a provision in current H1B law, but within the categories, an MS from MIT counts as much as an MS from U Podunk. That’s part of the premise of the H1B system being rigged.