<p>I mean, why does almost every state have a competition to see who can have the largest public universities? Did any states ever hear of LACs? Is it too much to ask to have a public LAC? I'm thinking a couple of states might have something like this, like SUNY-Wishawasheewannee or something, but most states just have mammoth public universities.</p>
<p>Does an intimate education have to come with a not so intimate price tag?</p>
<p>SUNY-Geneseo :-)</p>
<p>It does have 5,300 students though.</p>
<p>William and Mary is probably the most elite of public LAC's. It's pretty elite, but again, it's 5,700 students.</p>
<p>The smallest public schools that I know include New College of Florida and the Evergreen State College in Washington-- both small, public, and quite alternative.</p>
<p>St. Mary's College of Maryland</p>
<p>University of Minnesota Morris is a public LAC. </p>
<p>University of Minnesota Twin Cities is one of the top five universities in the country in student population most years. So it's possible for one state, with one university system, to have both kinds of colleges.</p>
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why does almost every state have a competition to see who can have the largest public universities?
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<p>I've never heard of such 'competition.'</p>
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Is it too much to ask to have a public LAC?
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<p>There are many small publics.</p>
<p>Truman State University in northern Missouri. Considered a LAC public. About 5,000 students. The statistics of admitted students is better than Univ. of MO-Columbia. It is well-loved by its students, who evidently do not mind being at least an hour and a half from a town of any size. It is served from the west and east by Amtrak and it seems to draw a lot of students from the Chicago area, judging by the number of them that my husband and I encounter on the train to and from Chicago.</p>
<p>I don't know what the out of state tuition rates are or how many exemptions they give, but they are pretty generous with advanced standing if a student comes in with a very good AP and SAT II record.</p>
<p>There are public LACs.</p>
<p>I'd be surprised if many schools embraced a competition to be "biggest" in enrollment. Keep in mind that many public universities believe it is their state-mandated mission to provide (either singly, or in conjunction with their peer publics in the state) a wide range of programs & majors, and to offer those to as many state residents who are interested and are qualified. Hence, they get big. </p>
<p>Some publics do carve out for themselves the mission of offering liberal arts degrees in an LAC-type setting, and you can find those with a little research.</p>
<p>Well, I have to admit my original post had a fair amount of sarcasm and exaggeration, so it's not exactly factual.</p>
<p>Thanks for the examples. I did know there were a couple of these sorts of institutions out there, but it just seems like some sort of secret that no one's supposed to know about. I am, of course, basing this on Ohio, where most of the public universities have more than 15,000 students. I don't know of any that have significantly less than that.</p>
<p>I didn't really realize that William & Mary was so small. I thought it was like a flagship university. Thanks for correcting me on that one.</p>
<p>Thanks again for dealing with my critical sarcasm. :)</p>
<p>You're not entirely incorrect - there is a competition to see who can have the biggest student body. ASU wants to be the first university in the United States to have more than 250,000 students (I think I read this in Time, but not sure). I know the U of MN-TC newspaper always publishes how they "rank" counting number of students.</p>
<p>One other thing though: the U of M has a ton of students because of its distance programs. There are not 120,000 students on that campus.</p>
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<blockquote> <p>I didn't really realize that William & Mary was so small. I thought it was like a flagship university.<<</p> </blockquote>
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<p>According to this, W&M IS a flagship state university:</p>
<p>It is the flagship if to refer to quality of teaching and student body and selectivity. If you refer to size and breadth of programs esp at the graduate level, the UVirginia and Va Tech would be the pick.</p>
<p>I'll add The College of New Jersey and Ramapo College (also in New Jersey), and U Maine-Farmington (although this is not as selective as most of the other public LACs listed here, it is Maine's attempt at providing this option). Hoedown's answer to your basic question is quite right, the size of a flagship university is simply the consequence of its mission. In addition to those listed by hoedown, most flagships are intended to be the main research centers of their states. But, it appears to me that many states, contrary to your observation, are doing things to stabilize their flagship populations in the face of a growing number prospective college students, including "non-traditional" students. This is evidenced by the appearance and growth of branch campuses (the state of Ohio is a good example of this, as is Wisconsin, North Carolina, and several others), the expansion of former teachers' colleges into more comprehensive institutions (New York is a good example) and a tendency of some community colleges to begin offering a limited number of 4-year programs as well. Unfortunately many of these institutions are not of the highest caliber, but there are exceptions (many are listed here), and the increasingly large overflow of good students from the "flagship" campuses is in my view tending to drive up the quality even now (look at James Madision University and George Mason in Va., UMBC, Salisbury, and Towson Universities in Maryland, UNC-Ashevlle and -Wilmington, etc., etc.)
On the issue of Virginia's "flagship", by the usual definition I would have to say it is Virginia Tech. As the land-grant university of Va., it is closest in mission to the classic midwestern flagships. Both UVa and W & M are in many ways unique institutions that really fit none of the usual categories.</p>
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As the land-grant university of Va., it is closest in mission to the classic midwestern flagships.
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<p>That's an interesting point. </p>
<p>Would you say the same is true of Michigan? MSU is the land grant institution in the state, and has nearly all the qualities of a traditional flagship like you're describing. U-M's mission is more like UVa's in the way it's become almost quasi-public, instead of public. However, it is a good bit bigger than UVa.</p>
<p>hoedown: I honestly don't know how to compare Michigan with UVa., if MSU is Michigan's land-grant it would be fun to know what UMich's institutional origins were. UVa's situation though is a bit clearer to me (I think): 1) it was founded much earlier than most state universities; 2) the circumstances of its founding, according to the exclusive vision of one man (Thomas Jefferson) make it truly unique; 3) it's purpose was never quite the same as most land-grants (which tended originally to promote more "practical" subjects, such as agriculture and technology I believe); and 4) it has never to my knowledge really been a school that saw its obligation as educating the greatest number in in-state students possible.<br>
As a UVa graduate myself, I have been an observer of this institutional legacy both for good and bad. UVa students are all aware to some extent of the school's uniqueness and it is a source of healthy pride. On the other hand, those who were so inclined (at least back then tended to stick their noses in the air a bit- any sign that UVa might be changing to more closely resemble a place like Tech was referred to as "creeping State U-ism".</p>
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any sign that UVa might be changing to more closely resemble a place like Tech was referred to as "creeping State U-ism".
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<p>Yeah, I agree. From its very beginning, UVA has always acted as a private school funded by the state, which logically doesn't make sense, but nonetheless, that was the prevailing collegiate attitude and atmosphere until recently.</p>
<p>Agewise, Umich isn't that much younger that UVa. As I've been thinking about it, I wonder if UNC doesn't also fit this same model. It, too, is not land-grant, and was founded very early--although it embraced the "public" ideal from the first.</p>
<p>Hoedown: I agree with you regarding UNC. Interesting: engineering is kind of a key subject here. Unlike most "flagships", UNC does not have engineering programs (or at least any large ones you would associate with a "flagship", I'm not sure about "absolutely none"). UVa of course has engineering, but the engineering school is relatively small compared to most state schools; also, I believe engineering was actually dropped for a while earlier in the 20th century. Certainly engineering is not a point of great emphasis like Tech or NC State. But here again, you can't quite equate UVa or UNC with Michigan.</p>
<p>economies of scale, biaaaatch</p>
<p>Virginia also has several decent publics even smaller than William and Mary--among the best/most popular are Mary Washington and Christopher Newport.</p>
<p>For those looking for smaller public institutions with a focus in the liberal arts I would suggest that you check out COPLAC, the Council of Public Liberal Arts Colleges.</p>