Why are State Us so looked down upon by this forum?

Parents Forum
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<p>When you say "everyone," I think that you find that it is mostly "kids."</p>

<p>But I will say, I have been in both situations--large 30K school and small setting (500 kids in whole law school). The educational experience was nicer in the smaller setting. </p>

<p>But the large school did just fine to get me to where I wanted to go. And it has done the job with many hard working adults out in the workforce today.</p>

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<p>How does U of Washington stack up? Honors PRogram there?</p>

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<p>Elitism can certainly rear its ugly head around these boards, but there are other contributing factors to the bias.</p>

<p>dke's point in post #17 is an important one: when it comes to getting into most publics, there's less "gaming" involved. Even the most selective UC's provide a rubric of required HS courses, a clear and well-publicized method for recalculation of GPA, and a fairly straightforward application process. They don't offer interviews, they aren't likely to worry about demonstrated interest, they don't practice affirmative action, they don't let you attach a resume, their essays have a page limit, etc. There's just less need to discuss and agonize over the process here, however good the schools might be. HS GC's are also more likely to be able to answer questions re: in-state publics than privates (closer relationships between the college and the HS, more experience with students matriculating, greater interest from the students, etc.). </p>

<p>There's also more CC attention paid to the privates, and particularly to the most "elite" privates, because they provide common ground for posters. People talk about what they know, they support what they know, and when it comes down to a choice between multiple schools, they probably vote for what they know. But unless they're from your region, they're not very likely to know your state school. So I think that in many cases, the public options get cast aside by default rather than actual disdain. My final choice came down to an in-state public vs. a LAC, but if I saw you asking about my LAC vs. your own in-state public, I'd have to say "Well, I don't know anything about State U, but this LAC is awesome!" So unless you got a poster familiar with your own region, it might end up looking like everyone preferred the LAC to the public, but it would never really have been a head-to-head match-up. </p>

<p>Also, as has been mentioned, "public" is quite a broad category, and it's not safe to assume that one state's public system is comparable to another's. So, while State U might be a fantastic option (and value) for one student, it might really curtail the opportunities available to a student in a different location. As an example, I've seen a number of threads on CC where a student starts talking about community colleges, others come in and criticize the option, and then someone else jumps in to say "No, you don't understand...the OP is from CA and the situation is different here." </p>

<p>Now...to reiterate...I'm not saying that elitism never plays a part. I'm also not saying that publics are always equal to privates (or vice versa, for that matter). Just wanted to point out that when it comes to CC discussion, there are some innocent reasons for the bias...it's not 100% elitism, especially not consciously so. </p>

<p>HisGrace: I really do hope you continue to post after you start at Sonoma. I've heard only good things, and I look forward to hearing about your experiences there :)</p>

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<p>
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HisGrace: I really do hope you continue to post after you start at Sonoma. I've heard only good things, and I look forward to hearing about your experiences there

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<p>Oh, don't worry...I'm addicted to CC. I'm not going anywhere. :)</p>

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<p>HisGrace my S has 2 friends graduating this year, one from Sonoma State and the other from UC Berkeley Haas school of business (not an Ivy..but still..). They both got recruited at the same Accounting firm in San Francisco, both starting at the same salary.
Enjoy Sonoma State, you will love it!</p>

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<p>I was going to say the same thing as Student615, HisGraceFillsMe. I have enjoyed your posts and I want to congratulate you on a great decision and wish you the best after HS graduation - I am so glad you have found the college for you! Please keep us posted.</p>

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<p>Thanks, guys! I really appreciate all the love and encouragement you parents have given me while I've been here. :) It amazes me how much this forum is like a family.</p>

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<p>We have some excellent state schools here in Virginia -- UVA, VT, JMU, and W & M. The biggest argument I hear about the first three is size (and George Mason is also big). Some kids do not like the big school, especially if they come from a small school like my son does (80 students in his class). They go to UVA or VT or JMU and suddenly, there are 300 students in an intro class, and they did not expect that. Granted, they needed to do better research.</p>

<p>My son is considering UVA and W & M, but they are not top choices. He certainly has the grades and scores that should help him gain admission to the two, but he would like to go somewhere different from his classmates. It is not a knock on the state school. He just wants to meet other people.</p>

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<p>I'm with you, HisGrace. I'd go into major withdrawal if something should happen to CC!</p>

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<p>Momreads, My son is at UVa with a few of his classmates from high school. He doesn't see any of them regularly. His best friends at school are the guys he roomed with as a first year and his fraternity brothers. Your son can certainly "meet other people" at UVa and William and Mary just as well as at other schools, including expensive privates. There are many clubs, intramurals,etc. Lots of opportunities to meet new people.</p>

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<p>oh and why is their always...always a thread on CC that pats CCers on the back for going to state schools? it seems as if there's always a need for reassurance, because they just don't understand why everyone doesn't like their school and wah wah :(.</p>

<p>i personally never see people posting threads for elite private schools doing the same thing.</p>

<p>congratulations on matriculating to and being happy with sonoma state university, but you are in the minority. this may be a site to talk about college admissions, but if you've been here a year, you should know that we're not talking about how to get accepted to CSUF.</p>

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<p>JaneyPT: There isn't much the U of Wash doesn't offer and it has a fantastic faculty. It has more members of the various academies of science, etc. then do many Ivy or so-called top 15 schools. It is either number one or number two in research dollars received per year, and the alumni network, especially in the PNW is extensive. Undergraduate research opportunities are unparalleled. I wish my kids had (would) considered going, but it was (is) too close to home. I can think of no other school I would seriously prefer them to be attending.</p>

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<p>We considered schools from all areas. And it boiled down to a UC and a state school from another state. My child chose the OOS because she wanted a different experience, to meet more people from a different area and to live on the east coast. The school is UMass Amherst, in the CommCol, which with a small scholarship from that school, actually makes it almost the exact same cost as the UC, since our EFC was mid 20's and no need-based fin-aid was offered. So we thought, why not go to the OOS for the same price? I'm sure the experience will be great. So I'm all for state colleges. The costs of the privates with small incentives blew us away. Besides it's what you make of the school, not what the school makes of you. If you flunk out of an elite school, you still have flunked out.</p>

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<p>Just saw I wrote "then do many Ivy..." rather than "than do..." I am aggravated.</p>

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<p>
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you should know that we're not talking about how to get accepted to CSUF

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If you think that then you must read CC very selectively because there are lots of threads regarding non-Ivies and plenty of interest in all types of colleges including state Us. Not everyone is looking for the same thing.</p>

<p>And believe it or not some state Us are more selective than what some consider to be top privates.</p>

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<p>you find me the top private that CSUF is more selective than.</p>

<p>if you didn't know, california has two state university systems. yes, one of them houses campuses that are arguably better than some top privates (that sure is vague, now, innit). </p>

<p>i've never seen anyone get rejected from CSUF or Long Beach, though. </p>

<p>and if people on CC are talking about state Us here, the majority of the talk will be centered around the very tippy top of the public school system (think UW Madison, UIUC, Berkeley, UCLA, U Mass Amherst, U Washington). i am perfectly aware that students on CC enjoy going to top state schools. what i'm not understanding is why people need to bring up the issue that their state school is just as good as the tip top privates out there.</p>

<p>stop comparing oranges and apples.</p>

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<p>I think there are some really good State U's. What I think you have to look at (even more than you have to with the privates is what they are known for). The University of Cincinnati is well known in Music, DAAP (Architecture, Design, etc...) and Engineering. Purdue is an engineering school (Not overly familiar with other areas). My understanding is IU has a really good languages program. I don't think they carry the overall prestige of the ivy's or top 20. The only reason we didn't consider Purdue for our daughters ChE degree is we knew that it would be more affordable to go to Vandy. Overall Vandy has a better reputation but in engineering Purdue is more prestigious.</p>

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<p>It's amusing to see threads like this on CC because I see the exact same kind of attitude at intercollegiate competitions like Model UN for instance. The delegates from schools like UPenn and Georgetown come in expecting to win everything and then get stunned when some "state school" person manages to get an award. There's also a tiered system of state schools from the "elite" like UVA, UTexas, and UMich to the "lesser" state schools that oftentimes is as bad as the Ivy League to state school comparisons. Similar assumptions hold for everything from internships to policy conferences as well- state school students usually have to prove themselves before being accepted by the others. And this is not inherently a bad thing, but it does mean that state school students have to be just that much better in order to get accepted by others. </p>

<p>I want to take a moment now to dispell a few of the myths about state schools that I've seen time and time again on these forums, beginning with the biggest fallacy of them all: using averages to predict an individual student's experience. Time and time again I see "40% of students don't graduate on time" or "50% of classes have 80+ students" or "The average student only has a 1250 SAT!" Here's something to think about- you are not the average student. Just by finding a website like College Confidential, you've shown that you want to look for better educational opportunities, which are always in supply even at the state schools. And for those top students who can get into these state schools' honors programs, the experience is also entirely different. Through any decent honors program, you can avoid those dreaded 300 person lecture classes (which, sources tell me, are also at places like Harvard as well), find like-minded students interested in excelling academically, meet the top professors at the university, and get into research and other activities. So if you are a top high school student or just any student interested in taking advantage of these opportunities, you will be able to succeed at a state school.</p>

<p>Also, there's often a perception of state schools as obsessed with greek life and athletics. First, if a 20,000 person school is 25% greek, then there are still 15,000 other non greek students to hang out with. And greeks are not all the standard stereotypes- many are actually nice, normal people who happen to belong to an organization that demands a lot of their time. While some schools are dominated by the greek system (i.e. the Machine), at most places you can get by just fine without going greek. Athletics too seem to attract a lot of derision- the perception seems to be that if a school is big into sports, it must have weaker academics. That's simply not true. Athletic affairs and academic affairs are usually separate spheres and being good at one has little influence on the other. There are a few schools out there who have appeared to sacrifice academics for athletics, but those are few and far between. As for myself, I find the school spirit encouraging and have grown to enjoy attending and celebrating all of the various intercollegiate athletic competitions out there without damaging my academic career at all. </p>

<p>Finally, I also want to address the idea that going to a state school will somehow limit your options in the future. I have not advanced into the "real world" yet, so all I'm going on is what I've seen with others and my own experience, but if you put yourself into a good situation (i.e. scholarship, honors program, self-motivation) at a state school, your options may actually increase. Without any student loans and without placing financial burden on my parents, I can now legitimately choose whatever course I want for my postgrad plans instead of rushing to find a path to financial solvency ASAP. In addition, the research and study abroad opportunities I've been able to enjoy as an undergraduate have been truly remarkable and indicative I think of my state school's honors program's commitment to study abroad and undergraduate research. While the name of the school at the top of my resume might not impress people, I hope that the accomplishments I've been able to do via those opportunities will do so. </p>

<p>Let me caution that not every state school will be a good fit for every student. Some students would be better fits at smaller schools and some state schools are simply do not offer enough opportunities for top students. But I encourage all those who turn their backs at state schools no matter what to go out and search for the unique opportunities that state schools offer, especially for top students. Hopefully change is coming in the prevailing mentality out there on state schools and I encourage all those on CC to at least take another look at what can state schools can offer each individual student.</p>

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<p>IlikeDice:</p>

<p>I'm very well acquainted with the college system in California as you might glean from my moniker.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that there are all different kinds of schools, students, educatioinal interests, financial situations, logistical situations, etc. Again, I've seen plenty of interest on CC in the full spectrum of college opportunities. I have no doubt that CSUF has some brilliant students attending right now who have decided to attend there versus elsewhere for their own set of reasons. Some of these people will be far more successful in life than some others attending other more selective colleges (and vice-versa). The same holds true for any college. Someday, a CSUF grad might be your boss.</p>

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what i'm not understanding is why people need to bring up the issue that their state school is just as good as the tip top privates out there

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I haven't seen a lot of posters saying their state school is 'just as good' as the top privates but I do see some saying the state school is fine for their own circumstances and in some cases is actually a better choice for them. And that's fine.</p>

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<p>As someone who graduated from an Ivy, I think top private colleges are the best options for many people when $$ is not a concern. But I am EXTREMELY concerned about all the 17 year olds posting that they believe a private undergraduate degree is always worth $80,000 plus in debt on graduation. I know many people that have been very successful with a degree from a state school, and know many people who graduated from my college who do not have high incomes. Some high school students with top grades and 2300 SATs want to go into teaching or social work which is wonderful, but it can be disastrous if they're tied to their student debt forever.</p>