Why are State Us so looked down upon by this forum?

Parents Forum
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i've never seen anyone get rejected from CSUF or Long Beach, though.

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<p>Go look in the CSULB forum...there are a couple of threads in there about students who are either afraid of getting rejected or who got rejected.</p>

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oh and why is their always...always a thread on CC that pats CCers on the back for going to state schools? it seems as if there's always a need for reassurance, because they just don't understand why everyone doesn't like their school and wah wah .</p>

<p>i personally never see people posting threads for elite private schools doing the same thing.

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<p>No, but you do see people like you, the ever-present "elitist, Ivies are the only thing worth spending a dime on" jerkfaces, telling us that State Schools just aren't worth going to and we might as well jump off a cliff for all the good we're doing ourselves.
...You used the wrong form of "there", by the way. :-p</p>

<p>Anyway. Here's a little tip: if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. </p>

<p>And maybe do your research next time...CSULB and CSUF are extremely competitive...perhaps the most competitive schools in the CSU system.</p>

<p>From the CSULB Common Data Set:
Total First-Time Freshmen who applied: 45,189
Total First-Time Freshman who were admitted: 21,245
Just under half. Definitely not "up there with the ivies", but it's not exactly a cake walk, either.</p>

<p>Muffy333-very well put. :)</p>

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<p>My personal opinion (and I acknowledge I could be wrong) is that it isn't so much a case of elitism or "looking down" on public universities as it is for two other reasons. On the College Search & Selection forum there any many posts were someone has been admitted to multiple schools and wants to know which is more prestigious. It seems that for many students and parents on CC the overall academic quality of the school, the ability of the school to provide a solid educational foundation that will serve the student well in whatever direction their life takes, is less important than a school's "prestige." And for many CCer's the prestige of most public universities is, in their mind, less than that of an elite private university or LAC. The second reason is unfamilarity. It seems that many CCer's either currently attend or graduated from top-ranked schools. Also many live in the NE, with its high concentration of top-ranked schools. It is natural that they would know a lot more about these schools, either through direct experience or the experience of friends and relatives, than they would of many schools in other parts of the country. The combined Ivy threads on CC have over 676,000 posts; the University of Kansas has (count em) 5. I would argue that a student CAN receive as good an undergraduate education at Kansas as they can at an Ivy, but clearly the interest level on CC for Kansas (and many other quality public universities) is not high. I enjoy lurking at CC; many of the posts are articulate, witty, informative, and give me a glimpse into what it is like to be a student at one of the elite schools. But I never forget what a very narrow slice of college students and parents CC represents. However, it does seem that with single-digital admission rates and soaring tuition costs, many parents (at least) are rethinking attitudes towards publics, and looking more and more closely at schools that may have been off the radar just few years ago.</p>

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<p>^Here's another vote for a Kansas public university. My daughter, a non-resident, attends K-State, where she is in the University Honors Program and an early admit scholar in the College of Veterinary Medicine. Her honors class this semester has 10 -- that's right -- 10 students. Her largest class has about 75 students and most of her classes have less than 30 students. She works as a paid research assistant for a professor of pathobiology at the vet school. At the end of this semester, she's studying abroad in Ireland/Scotland/UK as part of a summer program sponsored by K-State, the cost of which K-State subsidized with a partial scholarship. After she gets home, she's flying to New Mexico and spending some time doing research at New Mexico State University, all paid for by K-State. As for academic opportunities, here's how this "state school" stacks up against the elites in at least one respect (from K-State's admissions website): </p>

<p>K-STATE'S STELLAR COMPANY</p>

<p>K-State ranks first nationally among state universities in its total of Rhodes, Marshall, Truman, Goldwater, and Udall scholars since 1986. Our students have won more than $2 million in those five competitions and have earned K-State a place among the nation's elite universities. </p>

<p>Rank among the 500 state universities
1. K-State: #1 in all-time Truman and Goldwater scholars; #2 in Rhodes scholars since 1986; #2 in Marshall scholars since 1986 (tied); #3 in all-time Udall scholars (tied)
2. Penn State
3. University of North Carolina
4. University of Kansas
5. Arizona State University
6. University of Virginia
7. University of Michigan
8. University of Illinois
9. Montana State University
10. University of Washington at Seattle </p>

<p>Rank among all 2,400 public and private universities
1. Harvard
2. Yale
3. Stanford
4. Princeton
5. Duke
6. K-State
7. Brown
8. Chicago
9. Cornell
10. MIT </p>

<p>In addition to all of this, K-State gave her a great financial aid package (all merit money) that pays for about 1/2 her cost of attendance and is renewable for all four years. D had the stats to get into some top private universities, was solicited by several, and passed on them to go to K-State. She couldn't be happier and I'm convinced that she's receiving a fine education. I should add that I went to Duke for my undergraduate work, so I'm in no way biased against top private institutions. While I believe that I received an exceptional education at Duke, I also speak from experience when I say that private institutions are just as susceptible to some of the same criticisms that are so often levied against public universities. At Duke, for example, many of my introductory classes (chemistry, psychology, etc.) were huge. That hasn't changed. I have a good friend with a daughter at Cornell and she complains about the same thing, only now it comes with a $45,000 annual pricetag. I am not saying, of course, that K-State rivals a top twenty institution in every respect. What I am saying, however, is that most public universities afford motivated, hard working students the opportunities to receive an outstanding undergraduate education, and usually for a very reasonable cost. </p>

<p>And by the way, justaguy, before you bring it up, I acknowledge that KU has better football and basketball teams this year, although it won't last, of course. :-)</p>

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<p>Location, location, location. Many CC'ers live in the northeast with its multitudes of private schools within driving range of their homes. They are not at all familiar with comparable public schools out of their region and the midwesterners in general aren't frequenting the site. There is a different mindset when all you have to do is look at the good state schools in one brochure compared to when you have to ferret out details from a myriad of privates. I suspect the east coast had so many private colleges that, unlike newer states, they never put forth as much effort in developing great public institutions as those with money and power already had colleges for their offspring.</p>

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<p>gbesq --</p>

<p>I actually don't have any connection with UKansas. But I did live for nearly 20years in Iowa, which with the University of Iowa and Iowa State University, has, like Kansas, two very good universities that are rarely talked about on CC.</p>

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<p>^Justaguy,</p>

<p>Agreed, U of Iowa and Iowa State are both fine schools, as are KU and K-State. I think a few posters in this forum have made the same point that you did -- many CC members are residents of the coasts, and particularly the northeast (I'm in New England), where there are many, many private institutions which offer an excellent education along with the prestige factor. In some ways, that's a real shame, because many tend to overlook quality public universities that can offer an excellent educational experience for a lot less money.</p>

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<p>Sevmom, I appreciate the vote of confidence for UVA and W & M. Truthfully, UVA is very large, and I do not think that he really is sold on a large school. But I do know that my son will be grateful for your kind words, and the fact, of course, that your son likes UVA. Maybe this posting will change his thinking.</p>

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<p>Add in the fact that private schools charge the same tuition for all, most students looking at public U's will first look instate, and only at OOS if they feel the school is worth the extra cost- the school has to have significant advantages.</p>

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<p>^Or, as was the case with my D, the school has to offer the OOS applicant an excellent financial aid package. In her case, with the FA factored in, it was less expensive for D to attend K-State than it would have been for her to attend our in-state public flagship university.</p>

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<p>ILikedice you have never seen anyone who was rejected to Cal State Long Beach? Come look in my house, because son #3 did. He will be going to SJSU and is happy to be doing so. I'm glad he doesn't read this forum.</p>

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<p>I'm glad your S is happy, Bec5656. Remind him if he gets down that CSULB is very competitive and tough to get in to. In fact, I'm fairly confident that the only reason most of the kids from my HS get in is because we're their main recruiting school (you can see the CSULB pyramid from our football field, we're literally down the street).</p>

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<p>Gbesq, thanks for the post about K-State. I copied your post and will email it to a friend of mine whose hs soph daughter is a very gifted student, loves horses, and wants to be a vet. It sounds like a great opportunity and very affordable.</p>

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<p>I certainly don't look down on state schools. I graduated from W&M as an in state student many years ago. My parents could have never afforded to send me to an OOS school or a private school. My D will be attending JMU (OOS for me now) in the fall. She applied and was accepted at both public and private schools and received enough scholarship money for the private schools to be less expensive than the publics and still chose a public. </p>

<p>Momreads - I'll put in a plug for W&M. I went there with 5 of my friends from high school, and while it was nice to know people there from day one, we did not remain that close. Even though W&M is not very big, I only saw them occasionally. I loved every minute of it there and Williamsburg is still one of my favorite places. It is an incredible value for an in stater.</p>

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<p>MarinMom,</p>

<p>My pleasure. If your friend needs more info, feel free to pm me.</p>

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<p>Grace:
No, but you do see people like you, the ever-present "elitist, Ivies are the only thing worth spending a dime on" jerkfaces, telling us that State Schools just aren't worth going to and we might as well jump off a cliff for all the good we're doing ourselves.
...You used the wrong form of "there", by the way. :-p</p>

<p>The fact that I used the wrong form of "there" is pretty embarrassing, actually...because I usually am very nitpicky about that. I do challenge you, however, to find an instance of me in this thread expressing my opinion that all private schools are definitely better than state schools. It seems that your hyperactive inferiority complex has implanted words in my posts. I actually said to stop comparing oranges to apples, because that's essentially all is being accomplished in this thread.</p>

<p>Grace:
And maybe do your research next time...CSULB and CSUF are **extremely **competitive...perhaps the most competitive schools in the CSU system.</p>

<p>They're not "extremely" competitive if they're the most competitive in the CSU system. What you're referring to is how relatively "extreme" CSUF's and CSULB's admissions numbers are compared to other CSUs.</p>

<p>I'm personally going to a top LAC that gave me more need-based money than Berkeley did, but I was seriously considering both. They're different, and cannot be compared on a linear basis.</p>

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<p>I wasn't trying to implant words into your posts, but more to give you insight into how your posts come off to others.</p>

<p>Anyway. I'm sorry I overreacted...it's a little bit of a sore subject with me. But I wouldn't go so far as to say it's an inferiority complex...I didn't even apply to any "top" schools, because I knew what I wanted and found all of it at Sonoma.</p>

<p>You're right, they're different. And yes, I was comparing CSULB & CSUF to the other CSUs. But at the same time, is it right for people to just assume that all State schools are the same non-competitive, underfunded, not worth your time crap piles? I don't think so. That is what bothers me about this message board.</p>

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<p>gbesq:</p>

<p>There are also excellent state schools in New England. UCONN is a great school that CT has funded with billions over the last few years. Many of the top students who graduated with my kids go there.</p>

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<p>DocT:</p>

<p>Exactly my point. CT has spent BILLIONS on UConn. RI and MA spend nowhere close to enough. At one point, URI was asking alumni to sponsor magazine subscriptions to the library. The percentage of URI kids graduating in 4 years has been alarmingly low because they could not run enough sections of popular/required courses due to lack of teaching staff.</p>

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<p>The people who think that only high priced private colleges are worth anything; and that the public state schools are 2nd class; are people who base their lives on bragging rights and living up to the Jones'.</p>

<p>This topic has been brought up numerous times in many different fashions. Some people might think that the BMW Z4 is one of the best cars. But, if you needed the vehicle to tow with or to carry a lot of weight, then it's probably not the best vehicle. A Ford F-250 might be the "BEST". Schools are no different. If you really wanted to be a veterinarian, then going to Harvard might NOT be the best school. Going to Colorado State University on the other hand is considered one of the "Best" for that. Also; depending on the degree and profession you want to go into, you have to decide if going to a certain school and having $60-$80,000 in debt when you graduate is BETTER than going to school and graduating with no debt. Especially if you are thinking of continuing your education with graduate school and/or beyond.</p>

<p>The truth is; there's a lot of people who like being able to say; "I went to Yale" or "My son/daughter is going to Princeton". Those who assume that those schools are automatically BETTER than a state university are rationalizing. There are times, depending on the field of study you want to go into, that Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, GW, MIT, etc... is indeed the BEST school to attend. On the other hand, there are times when UCLA, University of Texas, Michigan State, Arizona State, etc.... are the BEST school to attend. There's certain courses of study at these schools that would make the Ivy's and such look in confusion. If I had one of the nation's largest law firms, I might be looking for a Harvard Law School graduate. If I was the CEO of Archer Daniels Midland and looking for the best graduates in agriculture, natural sciences, global ecology, etc... I think I'd rather be looking at Texas A&M, University of Wyoming, Colorado State University; or Arkansas. Anyway; somebody's got to keep those big expensive Liberal Arts Colleges in business.</p>

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<p>^Exactly. As an aspiring veterinarian, that is precisely why my daughter chose Kansas State over a more prestigious top twenty school -- one of the top colleges of agriculture in the nation (her major is animal science) and also one of the best vet schools. DocT, you are absolutely right about UConn. It's a fine school and one which my daughter seriously considered attending. She decided against it because it does not have a vet school and K-State gave her a better financial aid package.</p>