Why Boys Are Falling Behind (Newsweek)

Parents Forum
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<p>TheDad: I agree.</p>

<p>But I wonder if what was meant is that the rules are the types that are easier for girls to follow. For instance, at one of my kids' schools, the kids were required to "talk quietly" at their lunch tables. Girls are better able to do this. The boys (who are already hyper because schools don't have recess anymore for them to "burn off" their "boy" energy) can't keep the sound level down as easily, so they get into trouble. This is just one example. There are others. Like the article said, boys are treated as if they are defective girls. Boys are just different. I haven't met a teacher yet that doesn't groan when she gets her class list and sees that she has far more boys in the class than she does girls.</p>

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<p>they don't have recess?
that is awful
but I while I admit that boys and girls are "different"
I see it more as schools having larger class sizes, more teaching to the test, more interest in classes that run smoother, rather than admitting that some student have difficulty with small motor skills, with staying seated and taking notes all day, and with listening to lectures.
We need to teach the way kids learn, not the way we think they should learn</p>

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<p>at our HS, the boys call honors english "chick lit" since, of the 8-9 novels they read, 7 have a girl/female theme. And, the results are not surprising, of the 12 A's awarded (~100 students), 9 were to girls.</p>

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<p><<< at our HS, the boys call honors english "chick lit" since, of the 8-9 novels they read, 7 have a girl/female theme. >>></p>

<p>That is a shame. How do the teachers rationalize this? Do they realize that they are discouraging boys from liking literature by doing this? Parents should demand answers.</p>

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<p>In my child's 11th grade Honors English class they read chick lit, too, it was called "The Scarlet Letter".</p>

<p>Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think "The Secret Life of Bees" is great literature - it is a good book, but I'm not sure it is great literature. Not all great literature has to white guys dead 100 years, but it needs a little more imprimateur than Oprah, sorry. </p>

<p>I'm a little confused though, my husband says that in our public schools, the lit teachers have only a small list of novels to choose from, not because of censorship, but because the system buys the books, and it can only afford a few - I don't think books that I would call contemporary novels even make the list. how does this work in other states.
This is one of the big advantages of private schools here - their literature becomes novel based in middle school, because the kids can afford to buy the books.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Girls are rewarded for following rules, boys are punished for breaking them? The horror, the horror!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, if you make a rule that cub scouts should take a seat and chat quietly amongst themselves while waiting for the rest to arrive, you're going to have a lot of rule breakers on your hands. Brownie scouts have trouble with that rule too, but less so than cub scouts. </p>

<p>On the other hand, if you have a puzzle or a brain teaser or a game waiting for them to busy themselves with until everyone has arrived, you'll have fewer rule breakers. </p>

<p>The kids are the same kids either way, but one situation sets them up for success better than the other.</p>

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<p>I am sorry Oprah- but I dread having your seal on a book I want to read.
I admit I do have books that have been republished with Oprahs club on them like a Lesson before Dying- But I HAD IT ALREADY! ;)</p>

<p>Our district I think gives teachers money to buy books
There are also small grants around that enable teachers to buy books, ones from the local PTA, among others- so D school has quite a collection.</p>

<p>When she was at the K-12 school, some teachers had books in their classroom, but also the library had an extensive collection of book group books which had about 5-10 copies.
an advantage of a K-12 school, is books were available for all reading levels and interests
They don't even really read many recently published books, Tonto and Lone ranger fistfight in Heaven is probably one of the newest, but Things Fall Apart and the Ramanyana are probably more typical</p>

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<p>My 15-year old son and I had equal disdain for The Secret Life of Bees. Thought it was a rehash of many other books and made-for-TV movies. He is, on the other hand, really liking Great Gatsby.</p>

<p>It must be too hard to find good books to read in high school - is this a lowest common denominator thing? Girls' books when they are dumbed down are like Secret Life. Boys' books when dumbed down are video game magazines:).</p>

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<p>Laurie Halse Anderson writes some great books that they read in middle school
there are lots of great books- and I would assume that high school is plenty old enough to read adult books, because I think most only require an 8th grade reading level anyway
But sometimes teachers don't ahve a great idea of what is appropriate.
For example- in the K-12 school, 7th and 8th grade was taught together. this was an "alternative " school , far from regular gifted curriculum, but when she was in 7th grade, if you wanted to to have the honors designation on your transcript in English, you had to read and write about Dantes Inferno.
uhhuh</p>

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<p>I know in California there is a long list of "approved books" for classes and kids are told to buy their own copy when it is assigned. The same is here in alabama. The bookstores get the "book lists" and buy them ahead of time and put them in a special area.</p>

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<p>Have your male teenagers read Aristophanes' Lysistrata.</p>

<p>That'll get their attention just fine, especially if you have a good translation.</p>

<p>But seriously, as far as literature is concerned: in high schools there is little motivation to teach the classics, especially at lower levels. Obviously I wouldn't start a class full of green ninth-graders on the Iliad or Paradise Lost, but more modern, truly good stuff is fine - Lord of the Flies, Steinbeck, Poe, et cetera.</p>

<p>The thought of being forced to read The Secret Life of Bees in high school should be revolting to any properly motivated student, male or female. Unfortunately, a large proportion of students are not properly motivated. That, however, is a somewhat separate, much larger issue - one not bound by gender.</p>

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<p>Ahab, you should come down here - they teach classics all the way down to 5th and 6th graders - more modern classics in middle school, R&J in the 8th grade, extensive mythology in 9th, Dickens and Candide in the 10th, Scarlet Letter, Faulkner, and Steinbeck in the 11th, Brit Lit or AP Eng to seniors.</p>

<p>Uniformly most hated book in my household - close 3 way tie between The Grapes of Wrath, the Faulkner book (can't remember which one, but the most accessible), and The Old Man and the Sea. Favorites from school - Tale of 2 Cities, Candide, Great Gatsby, COunt of Monte Cristo and To Kill a Mockingbird - it is a great day when they figure out Scout's a girl</p>

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<p>I've been thinking about the boys being punished for not following rules. Maybe we should just let the schools be run like LORD OF THE FLIES. Two birds with one stone, be able to teach the book as well. Yeah, I'd guess the girls in that environment would probably wind up hitching their wagons to a "protector" and measure their accomplishment by the status of the protector.</p>

<p>Oh...wait...we had this for a few thousand years. It's called the "warlord society." And the women didn't have much choice. Never mind.</p>

<p>Of course, it'd be hell on males when they get out of the school system and experience the shock of having to follow rules that go against their nature after all.</p>

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<p>Some thoughts from PBS... </p>

<p><a href="http://www.pbs.org/parents/raisingboys/school.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.pbs.org/parents/raisingboys/school.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Intro</p>

<p>Some boys thrive in school. There are more "boy geniuses" than "girl geniuses" and there are more boys in the top 1 percent of the IQ scale than there are girls.</p>

<p>But many boys don't fare as well — and for the majority of them, school may not be as a good a fit as it is for girls...</p>

<p>Topic sentences from the section: *What's the Problem with School?*</p>

<p>The average boy is less mature than the average girl when he starts school. </p>

<p>Schools, not boys, have changed. </p>

<p>The elementary classroom is four-fifths language based, and girls are, on average, stronger than boys in language.</p>

<p>Boys are more active than many girls and have trouble sitting still for long periods of time. </p>

<p>Many schools don't offer enough hands-on learning opportunities. </p>

<p>Most elementary school teachers are women. Therefore, there are few male models for learning as a masculine pursuit. </p>

<p>Many female teachers may unconsciously prefer girls' interests (diaries and first-person narratives) over boys' interests like comic books and science fiction.</p>

<p>Topic sentences from the section: *Is School a Bad Fit for Boys?*</p>

<p>Boys act out in school to assert their masculinity. </p>

<p>Boys get into more trouble in school than girls. </p>

<p>Physical activity is limited in many schools.</p>

<p>Many fathers only show up for athletic events. </p>

<p>The media shows few images of academically successful men. </p>

<p>Topic sentences from the section: *Practical Strategies*</p>

<p>Let them play. Give boys lots of opportunities for physical activity and don't expect them to sit still for long periods of time. </p>

<p>Create learning activities where boys use their bodies. </p>

<p>Let boys read (and listen to) books that appeal to their interests.</p>

<p>Read aloud to boys and have them read aloud to you. </p>

<p>Allow boys to write about what interests them instead of what interests you. </p>

<p>Allow discussion of topics boys may want to talk about (but teachers and girls may not). </p>

<p>Allow boys to express humor in appropriate ways and at appropriate times.</p>

<p>Topic sentences from the section: *Logical Solutions*</p>

<p>Don't eliminate recess as a punishment. </p>

<p>Set clear limits for boys.</p>

<p>Create rules for safe play in the classroom.</p>

<p>Talk with and listen to your boys instead of lecturing.</p>

<p>Compliment your boys on what they do well.</p>

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<p>Now, now TheDad, don't be smug just because you haven't been through this. I realize you are very pro-womens' rights, but believe me, in the pits of middle school and high school, in some ways - the girls have won.</p>

<p>Of course boys should not be completely exempted from the "rules". Like many things in American society/culture, we have veered from one extreme to another - that's sort of the way we are. It is time to look at what we are doing and move the pendulum a little more to the middle, I think we have enough info to do this. </p>

<p>Those PBS suggestions for logical solutions sound very reasonable. I would add the ideas of experimenting with single sex classrooms, especially in 7-9, the old traditional junior high (do they have that outside the SOuth?). Also at our private school, there are usually one or two classes of "transitional" kindergarten - a spot for for held back students and the young, but advanced - an option for the kids who don't fit well. At our school, the teachers have the luxury of evaluating each child in pre-k and kindergarten and recommending, what is best for them - adding an optional kindergarten grade might actually be cheaper than a lot of other interventions.</p>

<p>I remember reading years ago, when my kids were approaching kindergarten age, that in the old USSR, kids were not required to begin formal education until they were 8 - they had day care and kindergarten like resources, and a kid could go early if that seemed appropriate, but "real school" did not start for most until 8 - doen't seem like such a bad idea now, at the time, I only had my experience as a child, and thought - Boy, I'd be bored to tears, 7 years old and not in school!</p>

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<p>Here's a question for those of you who think that boys are doing just fine and don't need any special nurturing to get through school. </p>

<p>With the majority of college graduates now being female, who will these educated, intelligent women marry/partner with in the next 20 years? The article from the OP and the PBS special "Raising Cain" point to a lost generation of young men in this country. Do you think your daughters would be content to either marry less educated, less financially secure men? I would not have like that option as a young woman -- it was important to me to marry a man with equivalent intellectual interests and education.</p>

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<p>With the majority of college graduates now being female, who will these educated, intelligent women marry/partner with in the next 20 years? The article from the OP and the PBS special "Raising Cain" point to a lost generation of young men in this country. Do you think your daughters would be content to either marry less educated, less financially secure men? I would not have like that option as a young woman -- it was important to me to marry a man with equivalent intellectual interests and education.</p>

<p>To play devils advocate
have men always had the opportunity or found it necessary to have partners who were educated equally?
I can understand wanting shared interests, but that doesn't necessarily mean identical educational backgrounds.
But who says all these women are straight? Perhaps some will partner with other women with identical educational backgrounds ;)</p>

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<p>
[quote]
But who says all these women are straignt? Perhaps some will partner with other women with identical educational backgrounds.

[/quote]
Touche, EK! And so will some of the men.</p>

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<p>I would be really interested in any data from studies of the treatment of boys in schools (stuff similar to the observations that were made years ago about teachers calling on boys more, letting boys interrupt, correcting boys based on content and girls based on form). So far what I have been reading is based on anecdote, stereotype, and comparison of outcomes between boys versus girls. Are the boys really doing worse than they were say 20 years ago, or are the girls just doing so much better than they were? I was under the impression that more boys are going to college than before, just not at the same rate of increase as girls.</p>

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<p>my3girls--I was just re-reading parts of my copy of Real Boys. The author did the types of studies you are talking about, visiting schools to observe classrooms, etc. Teachers were much more likely to discipline boys, ban them from group projects because they were not quiet enough, make them do work in the hallway, etc. I know from my own two sons how the elementary school years were more often an exercise in repressing their energy than anything else. When they succeeded in doing that too well, they were then criticized for not appearing interested. But that's anecdotal, again. If you have not read the books/articles such as the one in Newsweek, Real Boys, Where the Boys Aren't, or anything else on the subject, do so. There are plenty of statistics to show that boys are actually falling behind.</p>