"Why Can’t Everyone Get A’s? Excellence is not a zero sum game." NYT op-ed

Parent Cafe
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/opinion/sunday/schools-testing-ranking.html

Interesting take, which differs from many of the opinions I have read here. The basic take of the article is that standardized tests are not being used to see whether students are learning or are prepared, but as a way to force ranking. The article is saying that standardized testing is not being used as a tool to ensure that all students succeed, but as a tool to ensure that some students will fail.

I do not know that I agree with it entirely, but the author makes some interesting points.

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The only way to judge anyone is against what others can do. If the average person was only 4 foot tall, a 5’10” person would be a giant.

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This particular argument is, I think, weaker than many of the other ideas Alfie Kohn promotes in his books, two of which I have read and admired. However, I have seen what happens when the competition and stress of grades is removed.

We had one teacher, in math actually, who told the class they all had A’s before the class started. He also encouraged team test-taking and peer help and collaboration in general. The kids loved it and learned by teaching others, since competition was removed. Parents complained!!!

I also know of a college TA who assigned ungraded writing assignments. The students produced unbelievable writing without the stress of worrying about grades. They were more creative, taking more risks. And they had fun.

It is not hard to understand why some “progressive” colleges have historically not graded work but instead offered narrative evaluations, which are not competitive, do not sort, but address each individual. Clearly large high schools cannot do this, but it would be ideal.

In some of his books, Kohn reminds us that grades are not a goal in and of themselves: they are a measure of learning. In my experience, most teachers have forgotten this. When my kids brought report cards home, I did not look at them unless there was a reason to. I knew who was working hard and that was what mattered. I credit Kohn with this.

Kohn also makes interesting distinctions between external motivators (grades, college admissions are examples) and internal motivators. In psychology, the move to internal from external is a sign of transition to maturity, but grading systems (and college admissions competition) actually keep people in a less mature way of functioning.

Finally, in many ways, grading is not fair. The kids who work hardest don’t always get the best grades. Perhaps there is a way to include effort in grading.

I know my comments aren’t relevant here except to say that the real goal would be for people, both those who give then and those who get them, to understand what grades really are. As a measure of learning, and perhaps most importantly a measure of hard work, the inevitable sorting that results would at least be fair.

Or we could find a way to get rid of grades entirely.

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I would complain, too, compmom, if I had a teacher giving all A grades before the class began. At best the kids realize the grades were worthless and the teacher is patronizing them; at worst they thought they had mastered material and competence they didn’t have. We don’t lie to kids about their athletic ability-why would one do so about their academic achievements?

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I like the idea of an A before class starts and any grades are actually given out. You are telling the students they are starting at 100 instead of telling them they are starting at zero (glass half empty vs half full).

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I attended a selective LAC (let’s call it College #1) where the vast majority of students were very bright AND worked very hard and responsibly. They showed up, did their assignments, studied for exams, wrote thoughtful and insightful papers, etc.

I’ve also taught at a relatively un-selective college (let’s call it College #2) where a FEW of the kids matched the description above, but many others did the minimum, had lots of excuses, “forgot” to do assignments, and just didn’t really care, etc.

So I see no problem with the vast majority of students in College #1 getting A’s with maybe a few B’s, while students at College #2 get grades ranging from A’s to D’s.

But people decry “Grade Inflation” at College #1. I don’t see it that way.

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“I know my comments aren’t relevant here except to say that the real goal would be for people, both those who give then and those who get them, to understand what grades really are. As a measure of learning, and perhaps most importantly a measure of hard work, the inevitable sorting that results would at least be fair.”

“Finally, in many ways, grading is not fair. The kids who work hardest don’t always get the best grades. Perhaps there is a way to include effort in grading.”

Interestingly my high school (not in the US) gave grades which were a combination of a letter (A to E) for achievement, and a number (1 to 5, 1 being best) for effort. So if you were top of the class but didn’t try hard you would get an A2 or even A3, and if you tried really hard but weren’t that good you would get a B1 or very occasionally a C1. The most common grades were A2, B2 and C3, while A1 was rare. (For those wondering what it meant for GPA, that wasn’t calculated or relevant since only formal exams were important for college admissions, and grading was very strict by US standards, getting all As was almost unheard of, even for top students.)

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Results matter. I am all for recognizing effort, but the fact remains, at the end of the day, we need competent people to build bridges, perform surgery, etc, not just people who tried really hard. It is not helpful to pretend everyone is equally capable, or indeed has any competence in a field before they have begun to study it. We do not assume competence in swimming and throw everyone in a deep pool, taking off a few points for those who drown. The gradual acquisition of skills through effort is both more important and more likely to lead to meaningful self esteem than these fads.

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@Twoin18 I like this approach, but what criteria were used to grade effort?

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@yucca10 It was by teacher assessment. I would say it was mostly related to going above and beyond in homework (or not), although class contribution was part of it.

Usually the effort only varied by 1 point from the achievement, a two point variation was unusual. So it was a signaling mechanism about whether you worked harder than average, about average, or below average compared to others with the same level of achievement.

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Not necessarily. For example, consider that people at work or students in school may all be excellent, or all be poor.

However, when it comes to competitive situations, such as seeking a new job or promotion at work, or admission to college, some sort of ranking is forced. Competitive situations are common.

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There are learning situations where the focus is on the mastery of a body of content, and the goal is for everyone to succeed. Driver education is an example.

And there are learning situations where it is known that the process is competitive and only some will succeed. The hundred or so alto sax players who learn and practice their audition music before trying out for the all-state honors band in my state know that only four will be chosen.

Should academic courses be like driver ed, or should they be like preparing for all-state auditions? It’s an interesting question.

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What about a situation where a student takes longer for things to “click” in a class. They have a C first quarter, but then something clicks and they end up on balance with the same level of mastery as the student who gets an A both quarter. I can see that student getting an A for the class.

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^^Most people can get a driving license, but few are good drivers. A potential racing driver is at a whole different level of performance (and capability).

I think most HS and college exams are far too easy, there is the expectation that anyone diligent can get 93% or whatever and an A. I think the full scale of 0 to 100 should be earned.

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Can’t access the NYT article, so will assume OP summarized accurately:

Yes! And when schools celebrate those that do well on the tests? Isn’t that just shaming those that didn’t?

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I think the article was mixing up a couple different scenarios.
He mentioned the “no child left behind” of standardized testIng. In this case the idea is to have a bar that everyone has to pass to a certain proficiency level. Like a drivers test. The goal is everyone should pass. If not, try again. No brownie points given for being a race car driver. Everyone gets the same license. Where the bar is set is part of the debate. You don’t lower that bar for the guy who crashes into the tree because he tried hard and made an effort.

Other standardized testing is meant for ranking students for limited slots. The SAT scores are based on percentages.

School grades to me are like @donnaleighg said. The bar can be set very high and if you earn an “A” then it doesn’t matter how many others get one too. It’s not grade inflation unless the bar has been purposely lowered to include everybody regardless of skill.

We had a fabulous pharmacy professor who taught “pharmacy math” which was a fairly easy course but necessary (focus on conversions, dilutions, dosing etc). Everybody made an “A”.
The new dean thought he should “curve” the scores rather than give everyone an “A”
His reply was you shouldn’t be a pharmacist at all if you couldn’t get the “A”. You’d kill someone and no way was that happening—his EXPECTATION was an “A” from every student in that class.

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@OhiBro — I read it as some people when looking at proficiency scores want to raise them to the point where some fail after scores go up or everyone earns a decent passing grade. Like taking a drivers test everyone passes and they change the standard to add a very difficult obstacle course (which they should if you drive I-4).

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I have no idea why the kids who work hardest should get the best grades. Unless the meaning of grades were changed to “worked hard” rather than “learned material”. I occasionally have students who seem to think they deserve a higher grade because they perceive themselves to have “worked hard”. None of them have convinced me of anything by this argument.

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^ Absolutely agree with @sylvan8798. The grading is based on material learned. The reality is that some students will learn easily and some will have a more difficult time. That’s the way life is.

In addition, how does one determine how hard one worked? Was it the student who wasted time whining and complaining about how much work a class was? Or the student who simply spent his/her time quietly working and got it done?

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It is both. Those who just want to graduate high school can do so passing (C and D grades) with minimal standards. Those auditioning for admission to colleges’ commonly mentioned on these forums must join in the competition for A grades, top test scores, additional top level achievements, getting to know teachers for recommendations, etc.