Why cornell??? Any answers???

Colleges & Universities A-Z Cornell University
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<p>What if I dropped the Econ major instead? Does this totally screw me for employment? I love politics… </p>

<p>The thing is, if I’m going to have this low MicroEcon grade on my transcript, I should just stick with it. In for a penny, in for a pound.</p>

<p>I just hope employers and graduate schools don’t weigh a B- or even a C+ too heavily if it is first semester freshman year.</p>

<p>Is Intermediate Macro easy? That’s required, so I was going to take that instead of Banks next semester. How much math is in Banks, Money, etc.? My friend told me Money uses nothing more than 8th grade math.</p>

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<p>If your goal is banking and you can’t handle the Econ major, you may want to attempt to transfer to AEM and use your electives to take Government classes. If you think you can manage a 3.5 GPA in the Econ major, you’ll likely have good job prospects. And your job prospects wouldn’t be all that different than a 3.5 from Harvard. Yes, a 3.5 will almost assuredly keep you out of Goldman or McKinsey, but I think you’re learning at this point, you likely aren’t at that level. Although you have time to get to that level. Given the trend in Cornell, by the time you graduate, there may be a Government minor that you can get. If through talking to advisors transferring to AEM is a reach, you may actually fit well in ILR. I’ve always thought of ILR as a pseudo-approximation of a Govt/Econ double major in CAS. One of my classmates who works at Goldman now was an ILRie.</p>

<p>It’s really hard to say what your capable of since your still just a freshman. You have to be real about your capabilities and figure out where you want to focus your efforts without an unhealthy amount of stress.</p>

<p>If I were you, I’d take a good look at the course catalog and figure out what really interests you. Then decide if you have to make a trade-off between academic interests and career interests. If you want a solid career in banking, a 3.5 in Econ shouldn’t screw you AT ALL. If you have your heart set on Goldman, seriously consider switching majors so you can get a 3.9/4.0. A meeting with career services isn’t a bad idea either. They should give you an honest assessment of what it takes for what career you desire.</p>

<p>An Econ degree IS one of the more flexible degrees in CAS in terms of employment. Something like Government is much more at the whims of the current state of the economy. For example, if you graduated today with a degree in Government, you may have to gain some consulting experience at a small/mid-level firm before finding opportunities in the field you really want. And that isn’t a bad thing by any means.</p>

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<p>^
I like the flexibility of CAS over AEM, though. Plus, AEM has those science requirements which I would get destroyed by.</p>

<p>Why is Goldman more preferable to JP Morgan or Morgan Stanley? Is it the pay, or just the prestige? I could care less about the prestige of banks since they’re such destructive and greedy institutions. I only care about the money, which is hypocritical to say the least.</p>

<p>I mean, you and NYULawyer only got a 3.45 and a 3.6, respectively, and you’re both smarter than me, so that’s kind of discouraging. /:</p>

<p>And HELL NO to ILR. I would rather just drop the Econ major as a whole but stay in CAS. I didn’t work hard in high school just to go to a college which takes Community College transfers with 1800 SATs. No offense to ILRies, but seriously. I would just never do that.</p>

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<p>Honestly, neither econ nor government is the most marketable of all majors to employers. Still, econ > government for employment prospects.</p>

<p>For banking or consulting though, I don’t think your major matters much. They take people with random majors. However, in case you miss boat on banking or consulting, you will likely go through lots of tears and sweat to secure a job with a degree in government, especially in this economy. (or any other humanities major)</p>

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<p>It is all about your cum GPA.</p>

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<p>Yes.</p>

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<p>Your friends are correct.</p>

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<p>Wait, you want to enter a career in banking as a follower of Occupy Wall Street? How ironic. </p>

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<p>A 3.5 - 3.6 GPA is not a bad position to be in. You will soon find out that GPA in and out of itself does not dictate your employment outcome neither graduate school placement. Other variables enter the table after your GPA clears the initial screen.</p>

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<p>When I say “Goldman” don’t take that as literally just Goldman, but any elite banking/consulting firm. If your sole goal is money, you should be maximizing your GPA and networking opportunities. To me it seems you need to decide whether or not you see college as a “means to an end” or if the experience itself represents its own end. If your goals are just maximum money, pick a major that maximizes GPA/opportunities. If your life goal is a solid career with good money, follow your passions and you’ll likely be successful.</p>

<p>BTW, you probably want to adjust your attitude about your life goals. I’m all for people pursuing a career just for the money, but I personally don’t think that’s fulfilling and that something I personally value. Given the HIGH turnover rate in investment banking, you seem like someone who will quit after 1-2 years. I have a couple friends who are already leaving their banking careers because it’s making them miserable. Even if you land a Goldman-level gig and earning 100k-150k right out of college, is it really worth spending 80 hours a week doing something that makes you miserable or doing something you don’t find fulfilling?</p>

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<p>It is more like “If you manage 3.5+ GPA in econ, have strong/relevant internships, have strong interviewing skills, and have a good amount of hustle in you, you might be able to secure a good employment post graduation.”</p>

<p>From my experience, 3.5 GPA was the minimum cut-off for most consulting/ banking firms. Despite having a 3.6 GPA, I landed just one banking interview and two consulting interviews as a senior in college. (and no offers) The truth is each employer has maybe 16-20 slots for first round interviews on campus, and there are many qualified people fighting for that interview slot.</p>

<p>Job market is absolutely brutal out there, especially to lib. arts grads. 30-35% of ppl from my law school graduated unemployed this yr, and I go to a top 6 law school.</p>

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<p>This. I understand young students being naive. The vast majority of students from even Harvard don’t even make it to the first round interview at Goldman.</p>

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<p>Saugus - I double majored in math/econ many years ago. I found econ to be very easy relative to math. If you find econ classes challenging then you should really reconsider your future career plan (of going into finance). Most hiring managers will look at your relevant courses and they will know if you took fluff econ courses. Even if your GPA were good enough to get you an interview, you’ll be asked brain teasers during your interview. Assuming you were to get hired, you would still need to pass multiple exams at the training program before you were placed.</p>

<p>My older daughter was hired by one of those BB firms. They brought all the trainees to London for 2 months. They had a test every Fri of what they learned during the week. Every Mon morning scores were posted and trainees were placed in top, middle, low level class based on their test result. Again, people were ranked relative to each other. It was nerve wrecking for my kid every Sun night for 8 weeks. In her analyst class, there were kids from all top tier schools, but she was one of few analysts from NY who passed all of those tests. Analysts who didn’t pass the test second time around were let go.</p>

<p>IBs rank their analysts at year end - top 30%, middle 50%, bottom 20%. They routinely got rid of bottom 20% or pay them $0 bonus (very clear message). </p>

<p>I guess I don’t understand why people feel just because they were straight A students in high school they should continue to get As in college. In real life, people are constantly compared to each other. If you are not above average then you are out.</p>

<p>My kid had 3.5 when she applied for her junior year banking internship. She had multiple BB offers. I don’t think her GPA held her back, but rigor of Cornell education helped her with her performance at work.</p>

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<p>Just curious, would a Goldman Sachs like firm take someone with a quantitative background but who took very few econ related courses (assuming good GPA)? I don’t think I want to get into banking but I don’t want to close that option out. Would you absolutely need to have relevant internships in undergrad to get a job? I know of people that switched careers into banking later on well after graduation, but I don’t know if that still happens.</p>

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<p>Yes, they will consider you zenzic. However, the internships are also quite important.</p>

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<p>Ouch, that all sounds depressing, but thanks for the advice.</p>

<p>I really should have saved Intermediate Micro for my senior year or something so it didn’t hurt me when applying for jobs. I’ll definitely do that with Applied Econometrics. I will take it second semester senior year.</p>

<p>@Mikey What I’m actually interested in is Politics/Public Policy. The Government degree is for personal interest, the Economics degree is for employment. I’ve heard people say you don’t need an Econ degree for banking, but I’ve also heard it the other way around too, so I was just being safe. I think this semester with classes like International Relations, I took a harder courseload than I should have. I was going to take Katzenstein’s other class, Capitalism and Conflict in the Global Economy, but he seems to curve rather harshly. I’m not doing badly in IR-- 88 right now, but that’s kind of low from what I was expecting.</p>

<p>It seems like kind of a waste of an education to just take easy, fluff classes to get a high GPA, though. Still, I’m hoping I won’t stay at a 3.5 and can rise to a 3.7. </p>

<p>I know that money isn’t everything, but what else is there? Law school leads to unemployment or poor pay with high hours. Can’t do medical school or engineering. Banking is really the only path left for me.</p>

<p>@NYULawyer</p>

<p>So what do unemployed law school grads do? And what do Ivy League liberal arts grads predominantly do after graduating if they don’t get into banking? Also, you got into NYU Law with a 3.6? Dang.</p>

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<p>There isn’t a lot of money in public policy, but you can earn a respectable career with decent money. Just don’t expect to be able to afford Mercedes-Benz or BMWs anytime soon. I would encourage you to switch to PAM perhaps if you want to follow your passion. Although Econ/Govt is an excellent foundation for a career in public policy. However, you seem to want more “application”-type classes, so you may find PAM is actually what interests you.</p>

<p>You can still get into banking with a PAM degree, but you’ll definitely have to be more aggressive about lining up the right internships. Then again, with any degree you’re going to need the internships to be doing what you’d probably want to do in banking. </p>

<p>I am only suggesting other majors because you seem miserable in Econ and there is no sense getting a $200k education and not getting what you want out of it. Intermediate Micro is among the harder classes, but don’t kid yourself that if you pick the right classes, it’ll be easy to get A’s in them. Most Econ classes are curved in the B-range which means that you have to start scoring better relative to your peers to get an A. So in Intermediate Micro, a 60% might be a B. An equivalent grade might be an 85% in Public Finance, but since more people are getting mid-80s in that class, your grade will still be a B.</p>

<p>It’s hard to save Intermediate Micro for senior year since it’s a prereq for quite a few courses. BTW, it’s not a harsh curve when most people are able to get B+'s…</p>

<p>I would STRONGLY encourage you to talk to a career counselor. They are very helpful and if you do end up wanting to switch, you really gotta do that sooner rather than later. If you determine you want to stick with Econ/Govt, you either have to figure out a way to start excelling compared to your peers (which may make you miserable if you don’t have the right natural talent) or come to terms with realistic job prospects with your expected GPA. A 3.5 with a Econ/Govt double major may keep you from your dream job, but it certainly won’t set you up for a bad career earning low wages either. Keeping it real, you aren’t on track for super-elite banking gig either earning 150k in your early-mid 20s (but also working 80-100 hours per week). That said, you really need to figure out what will make you not miserable. As I said before, I know people who got those banking gigs earning tons of money and are quitting after 1-2 years because those jobs SUCK. They pay well, but you work long hours doing miserable work.</p>

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<p>Intermediate Micro is curved to a B+? Troshkin has the median grade curved to a B- right now; what the heck. -.-;</p>

<p>And a B was 9-11 out of 20 on the Prelim, so it’s between 45% and 55%, not 60%. But still, you get the point. The test is mostly just guessing and not a whole lot of actually grasping the material.</p>

<p>I like Government and wouldn’t transfer out of CAS. I sound like an elitist, but PAM is in HumEc. It’s just a complete downgrade. I’d rather be miserable than demote myself to PAM or ILR. AEM is probably lateral with CAS, but I wouldn’t do that either.</p>

<p>But, I’ll just have to see how everything works out. If this B- is an anomaly and I can find easy Econ classes, then it won’t be so bad.</p>

<p>By the way, you had roughly a 3.5, which is what I’m at right now, and you had the same major. What level of money are you making right now? I know you didn’t even try for anything finance-related so you probably could have made more, but I’m just wondering.</p>

<p>Also, Cornell introduced a Business minor last week, which I’m doing since it’s relatively easy and helps my eventual Econ degree out. </p>

<p>So hopefully, I’ll have a Cum Laude (3.7 should be enough) degree in Government and Economics, with minors in Business and Inequality. That’s about as optimistic as I can get.</p>

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<p>I was referring to Katzenstein regarding a B+ curve. And he doesn’t really curve so much as he is generally a tough grader. </p>

<p>Yes, you sound like an elitist, and irrationally so to the point where I think it’s hurting you. I would also suggest an attitude adjustment regarding your peers in other colleges/majors. You ARE NOT a rock star student in CAS. You are performing about average in a major that’s not all that hard. PAM, AEM, and ILR may be easier than Econ, but I don’t think you’d find yourself getting A’s is a cakewalk either, nor would getting A’s put you above your peers in those colleges because a lot of them are getting A’s too.</p>

<p>I’m glad you like the Government major, but Government isn’t any harder than PAM, AEM, or ILR. Maybe your grade in Intermediate Micro is an anomaly, but I wouldn’t count on that just yet. And don’t kid yourself, it’s not THAT much harder than the average Econ class.</p>

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<p>I suggest you tone down your rhetoric, or else I am afraid you will rub people the wrong way. On an anon internet forum like this, you can say whatever the hell you want. However, you may want to learn how to get along with others to prepare for real life. Perhaps the reason you are miserable at Cornell isn’t due to your grades, but maybe due to your (lack of) social life. Honestly, you come off as someone highly unskilled with social dynamics.</p>

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<p>Yes. For law school placement, LSAT score >>>>>> College GPA.</p>

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<p>That’s why you need to attend a top law school, or not bother with law school at all. I think a top 6 law school is still a very good bet. 60-65% of my classmates have a Biglaw job lined up… one of those corporate law jobs that pays 160k + bonus straight out of school. In fact, a JD from a top law school is much more of a sure bet compared to a BA from a top university. </p>

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<p>You wish. Breaking into IB (not back office, I’m talking about front office) is as hard as it gets in terms of entry level jobs. You think entry level Econ class is hard and competitive. Just wait until senior year when you apply to IB jobs…</p>

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<p>Case by case. Many do non-profit work such as Teach for America, Peace Corps, or some other crap that I can’t remember now. Some go into PR type of work. Some do HR at companies. Some go straight to graduate schools. Some work as barrista at Starbucks or folding clothes at GAP. Many others end up straight-up unemployed.</p>

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<p>Open a solo law practice, pass a bar exam and try to get a job at one of those “$hit law” firms doing insurance defense or personal injury, some others become permanent “document review” temp lawyers working for a temp agency, or some others work in retail, such as waiting tables. Law is one of those “feast or famine” industries, where people who land “BigLaw” make six figures straight out of school, while many others struggle to make their ends meet loaded with a crap ton of school debt. Moral of story: don’t ever think of going to a law school outside top 14. (even a lower T-14 school is risky)</p>

<p>Conclusion: life is hard and competitive, dude. Outside of those few who are truly talented and graduate from MIT engineering with a 3.8 GPA, others like you and me - nothing is guaranteed and we have to work our a$$ to “make it”. Don’t assume - just because you had a good SAT score back in high school - that a top corporate job or a top GPA at Cornell will be easily handed to you like people hand out candies to kids at Halloween. Be prepared to work your a$$ off and be prepared to face very stiff competitions along the way.</p>

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<p>My kid’s friends who graduated last year:</p>

<p>Bio major - administrative training program at a major hospital in NY
CoE - drug trial testing in Boston
Hotel - IB at GS
CoE - consultant at a major consulting firm in DC
CoA - at a top 3 law school
CAS - business and law at a top school in NYC (not NYU)
Hotel - analyst in finance at a major bank
CAS - marketing for a tech co in boston
CoE - S&T at GS</p>

<p>I know few of those kids are contemplating quitting their jobs to work for a start up company, another one wants to get into renewable energy. The kid from Hotel was a transfer from CAS. He loved to cook so he thought about owning a restaurant, but he started interning at GS sophomore year.</p>

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<p>^^^
Well, it’s the TAs who are technically grading. The short-answer, hard fact questions were easy. I got 29/30. It was the essay applying this knowledge which was graded kind of tough.</p>

<p>I didn’t mean to imply that I’m smarter than them or anything; I would just rather not transfer since I like CAS and don’t see what else PAM or ILR would offer. I can just take cross-listed classes anyway. I already have 20 AP credits, so I have plenty of room to explore. And yeah, I’m definitely average in CAS right now.</p>

<p>@NYULawyer</p>

<p>What rhetoric? It wasn’t meant to be an insult; I was just asking out of curiosity. (It wasn’t directed to you; it was to Mikey.) And no, social life is fine. I’ve been miserable because of prelims recently, until that I was happy. Pretty sure I just got something like 10/23 on today’s Micro prelim.</p>

<p>Well… That sounds kind of scary. Oh well, I’m sure it will all work out. Best to not think about it.</p>

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<p>Your AP credits mean anything outside CAS won’t count. 100 of your credits have to be within CAS (cross-listed classes do count).</p>

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<p>^
Right. What I meant by that is if I take 15 credits per semester, then that comes out to 120. I need 100 from CAS, and I can use the other 20 to take elective AEM/PAM classes.</p>

<p>I could have done that anyway, actually, thus making the AP credit useless aside from placement purposes. But oh well.</p>

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<p>Hint: Never should you, under any circumstances, ask anyone in the professional world what his or her salary is. It is just considered to be very rude and crude to do so. If you are lacking this kind of common sense, I think you have some work to do next few years before you enter that banking interview.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t do it in real life…</p>