<p>My older daughter was hired by one of those BB firms …In her analyst class, there were kids from all top tier schools, but she was one of few analysts from NY who passed all of those tests. Analysts who didn’t pass the test second time around were let go.</p>
<p>It is interesting that you mentioned kids from top schools and then left out all but analyst from NY for the final comparison. I am kind of wondering how analysts from Massachusetts or analysts from Pennsylvania did on their tests. (I believe easier grading wouldn’t make motivated kids wild and lose.)</p>
<p>On other front: (I just got a chance to take a look at statistics you linked.)
National Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities
Cornell University (3.36)
University of Pennsylvania (3.44)
Princeton University (3.27)
Columbia University (3.42)
Northwestern (3.37)
Vanderbilt (3.28)
The above numbers did not take year into account and were comparing apples and oranges. In addition, everyone mentioned about Brown and the schools picked to post above deliberately leave out Brown (and Harvard). </p>
<p>If we take year into account from the same link you provided:
Princeton (3.35 2005, with history of upward trend 2006 number should be higher)
Cornell (3.36 2006)
Dartmouth (3.39 2006)
Columbia (3.42 2006)
Penn (3.44 2004, with upward trend,2006 number should be higher)
Harvard (3.45 2005, with upward trend assume 2006 is 3.46)
Yale (3.48 2006)
Brown (3.59 2006)</p>
<p>Suppose a student needs 130 credit hours to graduate, then
Difference between Brown and Cornell is 130<em>3.59 130</em>3.36 = 29.9 (it is 29.9 credit hours of grades A and B difference)
Difference between Harvard and Cornell is 130<em>3.46 130</em>3.36 = 13 (it is 13 credit hours of grades A and B difference)</p>
<p>D1’s firm is a global company. As I mentioned, they had analysts from around the world. When I said analysts from NY, I meant from US. They didn’t have analysts from other parts of US, they all worked in NY. When they are asked where they are from, they said, “NY office.” </p>
<p>Brown 3.59 is significantly different than Cornell’s 3.36, one doesn’t need to multiply by 130 to show the difference. On the other hand, students from Brown are allowed to take many more courses for grade optional than students from other schools (like Cornell). Therefore comparing Brown’s GPA with Cornell’s GPa is comparing apples and oranges. </p>
<p>Harvard 3.46 vs Cornell 3.36 is less than 3%. We are whining over 3%?</p>
<p>Honestly, some people are way over-analyzing this crap. There are plenty of successful people who went to Cornell. Cornell is an amazing school that not only offers great academics, but also great people to meet, as well as access to exclusive recruiting for top entry level jobs. (management consulting, banking, trading, etc) I met some amazing/fun/caring/intelligent friends at Cornell and I won’t trade this experience for anything. </p>
<p>What matters the most is whether or not you make the most out of your opportunities at Cornell. Someone who can’t attain success out of Cornell isn’t likely to do any better at Brown or Harvard or whatever. Ok, maybe at Brown my GPA might have been .1 higher, but that doesn’t mean jack in the grand scheme of things, long-run.</p>
<p>I know that I didn’t make the most out of my opportunity while I was at Cornell. In hindsight, I wish I tried harder. I have no one but myself to blame. During my junior-senior years in college, I went out to drink 3-4 times a week, played XBox360 2-3 hours a day, and didn’t have a care in the world about finding internships, jobs, or thinking about my career. I had lots of fun, but I paid for all of that dearly after college. However, I learned from my mistakes and I am doing quite well now.</p>
<p>Lastly - your college GPA doesn’t mean jack after your first job. Your GPA just helps you land interviews for your first job out of college. If you are truly stressed about your GPA - guess what, maybe you should switch your major or take some more easy classes.</p>
<p>“Brown 3.59 is significantly different than Cornell’s 3.36”
So why did you leave it out? No matter how they have their system it is still GPA system that show on student transcripts.</p>
<p>“Harvard 3.46 vs Cornell 3.36 is less than 3%. We are whining over 3%?”
Are you saying it is 3% difference compare A to F? Compare using A to B it would be 10%. Tell students the difference between 13 credit hours of A at Harvard and 13 credit hours of B at Cornell is small.</p>
<p>A high GPA doesn’t equal career success. Like some posters here mentioned already, for like 100th time, your GPA just helps you land interviews for entry level jobs. That’s it. After that, the rest is up to you. </p>
<p>NYULawyer, it is not trivial. When I see so many Cornell students are stressed (and they are not unqualified students) and many are not going to give after leaving school I think there is defenitely better approach then ‘make them work harder so that they can compete with others’.</p>
<p>Yes, I do think people are focusing on GPA too much. What’s more important is friendship people form at Cornell. One reason to go to a school like Cornell is its alumni network. Of course, if you are spending all of your time studying then that’s all you’ll get out of it when you graduate. I think it is very sad to love or hate a school over GPA.</p>
I left it out because Brown’s grading system is very different than Cornell’s and many other schools. It is a system many people are aware of.</p>
<p>2Daswell - I think YOU are stressing over too much over your daughter’s grades. I hope you are not putting excessive pressure on her. I know there are a lot of parents (especially Asian parents) that put such pressure on their kids. My older kid told me while she went to parties there were many kids who stayed back to study. She took courses she enjoyed, sometimes she did well and sometimes she didn’t, but she loved every minute of her college experience.</p>
<p>NYULawyer, that vedio is not an evidence of GPA 4.0 is of no use. That student must have missed deadline for tests or application but she was working part-time at an easy job, applying for law school, and approached by a law firm when this video was posted in 2008. And later one comment stated “By the way, she just graduated first at Pepperdine Law School…”. Don’t know where she is now but GPA 4.0 certainly didn’t hurt her.</p>
<p>Oldfort, you assumed too much. (I think you self-described that you are an Asian - Indian American if I remembered correctly, no wonder you assumed it the way you did.) All my family members gave my daughter the liberty to set her own plans and achieve whatever she wants to achieve. She is doing well with friends and activities but certainly stressed with the grading system. </p>
<p>I am stressing over her happiness. That’s why I felt sad that she would have to worry about grades. If these kids did their best they shouldn’t have to worry about they are going to get terrible grades, but she is constantly so uncertain because of the curving system. Somebody need to change this.</p>
<p>I wonder how many prospective ED Cornell students are reading this thread and wondering what they are possibly(unlikely for me) getting themselves into.</p>
<p>In the event that I do get accepted(just going to reiterate the infinitesimally small chance that I do), I think I would enjoy the challenge. Nothing is more rewarding(IMO) than achieving success against long odds or when the chips are stacked against you.</p>
<p>While I found the workload/grading at cornell to be no walk in the park, I thought it was very manageable. Trust me on this. However, I heard of some horror stories from people who majored in stuff like computer science, electrical engineering, or chemical engineering… but I’d suppose those kind of majors are pretty darn hard everywhere.</p>
<p>Well, the point is 4.0 gpa didn’t hurt her, but it didn’t help her either. You really think after graduating from Harvard with 4.0 GPA, working a part time gig in retail before heading to a tier 2 law school was an ideal outcome?</p>
<p>Last time I checked - I had several friends from Cornell who managed to land much better jobs or got into much better graduate schools with lesser GPA than that.</p>
<p>I suggest you do some research on this, because you will need it. </p>
<p>-Getting a good employment = gpa + choice of major + work experience + extra curriculars + interviewing skills/preparation + luck + economy + connections/ networking skills. </p>
<p>-Getting into a good phd program = gpa + research experience + prof rec’s + course work from college. (for example, top econ phd programs look for high level math skills in applicants, etc) </p>
<p>-Getting into a good law school = gpa + lsat score (lsat score much more important) </p>
<p>-Getting into a med school = gpa + mcat score + research experience + interviewing skills + volunteer experience, etc etc</p>
<p>Look while it’s nice to have a high gpa, it doesn’t guarantee crap to anyone. It just makes the whole process easier. Also, the difference in gpa between cornell and all those other schools you’re citing doesn’t seem significant at all. No reason to lose sleep over this. The end.</p>
<p>I would like to go to Cornell. I also want to go to Veterinary school, or maybe medical school, i do not know. But I know to get into vet or med school, they want a high gpa. if my gpa is lower because of the difficulty at cornell, will that be taken into consideration? would a 3.4 gpa at cornell be automatically deemed lower than a 4.0 gpa at a public state school? I don’t feel like that’s fair, but i guess there is no possible way to measure it…</p>
You are not being realistic. People worry about losing their jobs even when they are doing their best. My kid is worried about her analyst ranking which is due to come out soon. She has been killing herself at work, working from 7-12am most days. She wants get the highest ranking because she is used being the best, but so are 30+ other analysts.</p>
<p>There will always be stress in life, whether it is at Cornell, top law school, med school or a job. The key is how to handle that pressure, how not to let it swept you away. If your kid could learn how to manage the pressure while college, she will do much better later on in life. You can’t get your school or job to lessen the pressure, but you have control over how to manage it.</p>
<p>I also disagree that Cornell needs to change its grading. Stress isn’t a bad thing if you learn how to balance it. Cornell definitely forces you to confront managing stress and that’s a very valuable skill. It’s a poor lesson to think any time you think you worked hard enough, you deserve an A. If you work hard and still get B’s (which is true of many/most Cornell students) learning to be okay with that is valuable. For some it’s a tough adjustment, but that doesn’t mean it’s a bad practice.</p>
<p>Stress is definitely a part of the equation at Cornell. While it may be true in high school that adequate studying yields an A, this is not the case at Cornell. To add to that, an A may not end up being an A after all depending on the grading of the particular class. That said, students need to learn to adjust to this and accept some B’s. They will be better prepared for the rigors of real life and the inevitable curve balls that will be pitched their way in careers or grad schools or med schools. My D has come a long way since a year ago. She still gets very stressed but she is really learning to accept a few B’s, even in classes that she has worked very hard in. She never looks for short cuts or the “easy” classes - she picks classes that she believes will benefit her the most in her future, even though they may pose a greater challenge.</p>
<p>The students at Harvard and Yale are significantly better than the students at Cornell. Therefore a 3.46 GPA at Harvard is probably harder to achieve than a 3.37 at Cornell.</p>
<p>Honestly, Cornell presents a challenge but a very manageable one. I did premed at Cornell and I found freshman year to be the most difficult (most of the complaints come from freshmen who are not used to getting 3.0’s). The later years are VERY grade inflated (and, dare I say, easy) so that the average GPA ends up being 3.4. The vast majority of upper div courses are curved to A’s, A-'s, and B+'s.</p>
<p>mikeyc765: Stress isn’t a bad thing if you learn how to balance it.</p>
<p>In some degree it is true but not always. My D balanced it by not going to graduate school because she is uncertain what grades shell get by the time she needs to apply and dont want to stress more to plan for it now. A little stress is good, enormous stress is not no matter how you balance it. </p>
<p>Since "A cursory review of the employment practices at any large financial sector company, law school or graduate program, reveals that they do not take a college’s grading practice into account. " still not been proven to be false, it affects many under the hard grading system.</p>
<p>Norcalguy The students at Harvard and Yale are significantly better than the students at Cornell. Therefore a 3.46 GPA at Harvard is probably harder to achieve than a 3.37 at Cornell.
I know you continue to state Cornell students are not as good as Harvard students. Maybe on the average it is, but I can say for CoE your schools are better than theirs. My Ds high school class #5 who were constantly behind her now at Harvard getting higher GPA. </p>
<p>Oldfort: You are not being realistic. People worry about losing their jobs even when they are doing their best.
I am realistic. People who are motivated always find jobs even if they lost one due to company re-organization. They dont need more stress inflicted on them. (certainly I am not talking about all people, I focus on motivated ones.)</p>
<p>The engineering program at Cornell is better than the engineering program at Harvard. I’m not so sure the actual COE students at Cornell are better (statistically) than the engineering majors at Harvard. </p>
<p>As some have noted, majors like premed, or hard sciences, or engineering are difficult everywhere. It’s not like the engineering majors at Yale have it any easier than the engineering majors at Cornell. Or that it’s easier being premed at Penn vs. being premed at Cornell. Too many Cornellians get into a pattern of blaming the school for their own failings. Cornell is NOT any more difficult than most of its peers when you compare equivalent majors.</p>