<p>@pragmatic23 </p>
<p>That’s great!</p>
<p>And things are looking a little better, but I’m far from out of the woods yet. I still have to try and get the best grades I can.</p>
<p>I would definitely say lack of ECs. They want to see someone who can interact within a community and not someone who might be reclusive and hanging out in their room. Not that you’re doing that but they don’t know. Especially in today’s climate. </p>
<p>IN FACT I will go out on a limb and say ECs will be increasingly more important to weed out whack jobs.</p>
<p>My daughter’s a Bruin, @pragmatic23! How can you go wrong with fellow classmates @cayton and almost everyone else on here. :-h </p>
<p>I actually read UCLA had moved holistic starting last year and it was in a UC press release, not through ms sun - although I think ECs will play an increasingly important part for purely psychological evaluation. </p>
<p>I can almost say that it was 99.99% chance that you were rejected solely on your lack of E.C’s. My friend with a 4.0, who listed only 1 E.C was rejected from UC Berkeley. They appealed to UCB and stated that they actually were much more involved in the community, and that the 1 E.C that they put on their application was what they solely dedicate their time to. Their appeal was approved. E.C’s and high GPA factor in together, which is what holistic evaluation is all about.</p>
<p>This mean that you need both good E.C’s and a high GPA.</p>
<p>@pragmatic23 I am not liking how this thread might make prospective applicants get the idea that it is worth risking your grades to have ECs. In principle, it disturbs me when grades aren’t seen as a signal of your ability to meet your responsibilities as a student (some may get unlucky with some professors, so there are exceptions). ECs may signal that you can give more than what is expected of you, but still that becomes unreliable if you did not deliver the initial task (unless the EC is truly impressive). The question you should ask yourself is whether you would rather have spent time on ECs and risked not getting a 4.0, or was maintaining your perfect GPA the smarter decision. Well, approaching that question after the fact may seem pointless, but it should make you remember why you prioritized your GPA in the first place. Of course it is ideal that you maintain perfect grades AND have ECs as well. But if you are in a situation where an EC will risk lowering your GPA, I personally wouldn’t do it. Now almost everyone who replied to you make it seem like having no ECs will risk one’s admission–but in the context of a similar situation to yours, so will lowering one’s GPA.</p>
<p>Searching for the queries “curricular[/s]: no[/none]” and “EC[/s]: no[/none]” show interesting results from Berkeley applicants with no ECs whatsoever:
<a href=“**Official 2010 UC Berkeley Transfers Acceptance/Rejection Thread!!** - #179 by Brocoli - UC Transfers - College Confidential Forums”>**Official 2010 UC Berkeley Transfers Acceptance/Rejection Thread!!** - #179 by Brocoli - UC Transfers - College Confidential Forums;
<a href=“**official 2009 berkeley admissions/rejections thread** - #127 by grey_syntactics - UC Transfers - College Confidential Forums”>**official 2009 berkeley admissions/rejections thread** - #127 by grey_syntactics - UC Transfers - College Confidential Forums;
<a href=“**Official 2010 UC Berkeley Transfers Acceptance/Rejection Thread!!** - #47 by YoungCollegeGirl - UC Transfers - College Confidential Forums”>**Official 2010 UC Berkeley Transfers Acceptance/Rejection Thread!!** - #47 by YoungCollegeGirl - UC Transfers - College Confidential Forums;
<a href=“**official 2009 berkeley admissions/rejections thread** - #25 by Dem_Bones - UC Transfers - College Confidential Forums”>**official 2009 berkeley admissions/rejections thread** - #25 by Dem_Bones - UC Transfers - College Confidential Forums;
These people don’t even have a 4.0 GPA on top of having no ECs but they got in.</p>
<p>If you really, really want a more possible explanation, tell us (again, only if you really, really want to) other information such as: ethnicity, income bracket, workload per term (you said in one thread that you only took 13 units in a particular semester), etc.</p>
<p>@sarachun. If participating in ECs during CC makes a student’s grades suffer, then how will that student be prepared to take on the highly increased academic rigor of a top-tier UC? </p>
<p>For example, if a CC student spends 20 hours/ week studying, reading, writing, homework, etc, that student should probably expect to spend let’s say 30 hours at Cal. So that means the CC student should have 10 additional hours per week to do something other than academics. (I’m picking numbers out of the air, but you get my point.) </p>
<p>Most ECs don’t require even require that type of commitment. If a student can’t find a couple hours a week for an EC, that’s lack of effort and lack of time management. Neither of those would be viewed as positive characteristics of an applicant. Some people keep GPAs high with FT jobs, raising families, elder care, leaders in student government, and the list goes on. </p>
<p>Of course you can always find students who were accepted without ECs, but the question is, why intentionally put yourself at a disadvantage? A 3.0 student with 50 ECs won’t likely get into Cal, just as it is unlikely that a 4.0 student, with nothing else going on but school will be accepted. </p>
<p>OP: son had similar stats for Cal. He had tons of EC’s (Eagle Scout, Athlete) and got into UCLA and Cal tech but Berkeley rejected him. It’s a crapshoot.</p>
<p>I tend to agree with Aunt Bea, especially after reading some of the various threads. Sometimes things happen the way they should, but sometimes people fall through the cracks and don’t get in when they should, and other times some people with relatively low GPAs get in. While the OP got rejected from Cal, there are many instances where people get rejected from UCLA and accepted into Cal. I actually think there is no way the OP can find out the reason for the rejection unless Cal tells him. Crazy as it seems, maybe it was a mistake. </p>
<p>Congrats to Aunt Bea’s son on UCLA and Cal Tech !</p>
<p>@sarachun I don’t think anyone is saying let your grades slide and load up on ECs. On the contrary, I said GPA was the most important thing, but ECs are important. @2016candles said if you aren’t prepared now to take on some extra stuff, you’ll flounder at the UCs and I agree. ECs can consist of a club (an hour a month, if that), volunteering at humane society (3 hrs on Sunday), being on Associated Student board (about half hour every two weeks). That’s what my daughter did, plus she worked part-time and still had a high GPA.</p>
<p>@2016Candles I agree about the straightforward strategy of allotting the time. But getting 2 free hours per week isn’t as easy as you make it seem. I average ~20 units per sem above a part-time job, and I dedicated one 18-unit semester to ECs including a 3-unit special project. Calculus and calculus-based physics for example aren’t subjects you’d risk taking an EC with. There’s a tried-and-tested rule-of-thumb for studying, which is “2 hours of study time for each unit taken” <a href=“faculty.deanza.*.edu”>faculty.deanza.*.edu; I adopted this study habit and found that I needed 2.5-3 hours per unit. My 4 unit E&M class even required more than that (my physics prof. was a 1/5 in RMP). With h/ss subjects that require essays, I spend 10 hours extra per outside reference (although this also counts as leisure reading d: ). I know I could cut back my efforts and still get an A, but I would be lowering my standards and that will disadvantage me not only in university but in life in general.</p>
<p>Of course, what I just told you is a valid reason to not have ECs, and in my “no ECs” forum search I found some admitted Cal applicants saying they explained their absence of ECs in their essays/additional comments.</p>
<p>As I explained, it’s not about “intentionally” putting oneself at a disadvantage since the risk of getting a B instead of an A is not insignificant–we are talking about a 4.0 GPA, and the pressure increases the longer you have to maintain it. You are still clinging to the assumption that ECs determine admission. There are far too many counterexamples for that to be a universal rule, at least for UC transfers. You are also equating the admission chances of a “4.0 GPA with no ECs” and a “3.0 GPA with 50 ECs,” and I’m only restating that so you’d realize how that sounds.</p>
<p>I think, to make this discussion more useful for prospective applicants, you might want to give examples of ECs that require “a couple hours a week.” For computer science and engineering, there are programming competitions, hackathons, engineering workshops, physics projects, etc. (the hackathon and workshop gave proof of participation I showed when I got audited). Community service includes administering/volunteering in blood drives and other PTK activities (even if you’re not a PTK member, find out who the PTK advisor is, as he/she periodically sends out a list of available activities). When you’re dealing with difficult classes, allocating mindspace for other things can drive you insane (or at least give you panic attacks, which happened to me).</p>
<p>aunt bea and Annie2015 gave the more reasonable explanation: no explanation. (Although with nudge economics trending in academia, the “no explanation is the best explanation for randomness” should already be a given.)</p>
<p>@pragmatic23 BTW did you ever appeal the decision? As imaplealot shared, it appears that admissions are open to reason. Personally, if I were an application reader, I’d choose you over an honors student/PTK member with a 3.7 GPA who joined marathons for cancer or other such ECs that aren’t exactly impressive to people who were there (like me, and possibly most application readers who had to donate blood for ECs). Unless you’re a rich, able-bodied white male dependent student–the institutional inertia of your privilege gives you very little excuse for having accomplished less than an impoverished girl from Vietnam who started from scratch. (It’s no secret that AA finds its way into this “holistic” process, as leaked in the news.)</p>
<p>A job is an EC. I’m not sure why we are discussing passionately about(aka arguing), but it’s true if you can maintain 4.0 and do an EC is better than maintain a 4.0 with no EC or worst yet have a 3.5 with 50 ECs. There is a slow gradient of acceptable to colleges.
I think I would put the declining at UCB because of no ECs, basically you put in a lot of hours to studying, you might not survived at UCB.</p>
<p>Sorry, sarahchun, you need a reality check. The OP got rejected because he was an academic student, nothing else. “Most” students are high achieving in the classroom AND do other things that will make them a part of a vibrant, diverse class. Cal wants musicians, athletes, poets, dancers etc. What they don’t want is somebody that goes to class and back to their room to study.</p>
<h1>Boring</h1>
<p>Not just boring, they want to know if there is a bit of extra energy or miles left beyond the 4.0 because that is all you could measure the 4.0. But what if there is a grading scale of 5.0, the student with 4.0 and no EC would be in 4.0 out of 5.0 scale. The student with 4.0 and few significant ECs will be 5.0 out of 5.0. </p>
<p>@sarahchun I’m hope you’re not looking for me or anyone else to give you a pat on the back, for doing what a strong UC candidate SHOULD be doing. I work 40+ hours a week , volunteer by teaching CPR classes at schools and churches, volunteered to help at various charity walks throughout so cal, have the typical family responsibilities, take 18 units/ semester, and maintained a 4.0 the last 3 semesters. </p>
<p>I say all that to say, it is expected that students will spend their time in other ways outside of the classroom. Again I repeat, if a person can’t find 2 hours/ week to do something other than school, then they are not UC material. </p>
<p>@sarachun, you say you don’t like how the thread is going towards having ECs at the expense of academics, GPA? A high achieving student can and is expected to do both. My daughter had an UW 3.96 with a full IB diploma plus 7 APs. Fine and dandy. She also was in a sport that was 20 hours a week, making state finals all 4 years, was active in clubs that interested her and had leadership in them, and still managed time to work at a restaurant part time. She is not unusual, her classmates at her UG and now at her medschool had equally full schedules. So no, I don’t give somebody a pass that <em>just</em> maintains a perfect GPA.</p>
<p>Congrats OP, enjoy being a Bruin!</p>
<p>@sarahcun, I just reread your last post. It is ludicrous to suggest that finding it is difficult to find 2 free hours a week free time. You may be studying a lot, but you must not be studying smart. </p>
<p>@sarahchun :"There’s a tried-and-tested rule-of-thumb for studying, which is “2 hours of study time for each unit taken”…</p>
<p>TWO HOURS PER UNIT AT A CCC? I think not. Regardless, you made the decision to take 20 units per semester, which is a huge load. That may it may not be a good thing. The fact that you have overbooked yourself in courses does not negate the fact that ECs are a component they will look at. Sink or swim, as they say. Having said that, I have seen ppl accepted with 4.0 and no ECs, but you’re better with a more rounded lifestyle.</p>
<p>And not to beat a dead horse but I think they will be looking more for indications of community interaction and well-rounded social activities after the UCSB shootings.</p>
<p>@sarahchun No, I did not appeal as I did not want to face the devastation of being rejected twice from my #1 choice. Also, I’m not an URM (but I’m not white, either) nor does my family struggle financially so that probably did not help my chances. </p>
<p>And woah, this turned into quite a heated debate. I see where everyone is coming from though. </p>
<p>so what does URM mean @pragmatic23? Under-Represented Male?</p>
<p>@lindyk8 No, it means Under-Represented Minority, if I’ve understood this board’s lingo correctly. And I am aware that California schools are not allowed, by law, to use race as a factor in their admission processes, so I guess I was looking for a different term. :)</p>