Why did the ucla football team stay at an expensive hotel last night??

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<p>The situation is a little more complicated than you describe it. The fact is, athletic departments at most big-time sports schools were pushed out the door by the administration and the trustees because they could be, i.e., they were bringing in enough revenue that they could be told to stand on their own feet and be self-sufficient. That’s how most universities treat their law schools, medical schools, and business schools, as well; they don’t get a subsidy from the central administration because they generate enough revenue to pay for themselves, so they’re made to go it alone. And the athletic departments welcomed the additional degree of autonomy that came with self-sufficiency, along with the ability to free themselves from a lot of uninformed public yammering that the taxpayers were paying the football coach too much (when in fact football had been running a huge surplus all along). It’s not total autonomy, however; the athletic director still reports to the president and the athletic department budget still needs to be approved by the trustees, and if the president and trustees think varsity fencing should be a higher priority than, say, varsity water polo, they’re in a position to insist on it.</p>

<p>Different schools arrange things different ways, but at my undergrad alma mater, most of the Athletic Department revenue comes directly or indirectly from football, with a healthy though smaller contribution from men’s basketball and an even smaller but nonetheless net positive contribution from men’s ice hockey. All other men’s and women’s varsity sports lose money; 100% of their budgets come from Athletic Department revenue, which is to say football, men’s basketball, and men’s hockey. And generally there’s a surplus after all the Athletic Department’s bills are paid (including upkeep and debt service on Athletic Department facilities, which are 100% the responsibility of the Athletic Department). Some of that surplus goes into an Athletic Department rainy day fund, and the rest goes to the central administration to help subsidize academics, jazz band, or whatever. </p>

<p>But here’s where it gets a little complicated: not all athletic activity on campus is supported this way. Non-varsity sports, including intercollegiate club sports and intramural sports, are in an entirely separately department, the Department of Recreational Sports, funded out of central administration funds and student fees. Rec Sports also runs the student recreational athletic facilities. That’s where the trade-offs between fencing and jazz band come in. The central administration can decide to allocate more or less money to Rec Sports, and more or less to music and other non-athletic extracurriculars, as it sees fit.</p>

<p>Then, of course, there’s a whole additional tier of physical education classes, run by the physical education department in the School of Kinesiology. That’s funded through the normal academic budgeting process.</p>

<p>At my alma mater there’s some back-and-forth between club sports and varsity sports; in fact, there’s an intermediate category called “varsity club sports” that are officially still club sports (meaning inter alia no athletic scholarships) under the supervision of the Department of Rec Sports, but they work closely with the Athletic Department as varsity-sports-in-training, I suppose. An example is lacrosse which for many years was a club sport, then moved up to “varsity club” status, and next year officially becomes a varsity sport under the Athletic Department. But that wasn’t just the Athletic Department’s decision; it was a plan that was fully supported and possibly even instigated by the central administration and the trustees in response to growing student interest, a great deal of success at the intercollegiate club level, and perhaps some ideas about how the university wanted to position itself (you know, more head-to-head competition with all those fancy-pants Northeastern schools where lacrosse is a big deal). That, coupled with a calculation that the Athletic Department’s budget was strong enough to absorb an additional varsity team, which then frees up Rec Sports money for other sports, or reduces the Rec Sports budget by a like amount to free up more money for music, or sociology, or whatever. So I think the kinds of trade-offs you suggest do get made. It’s almost never a question of a sport going away completely; it’s a question of whose budget they’re on, and what resources they have to work with. Those currently in the Athletic Department are the most protected and the best-funded because they have the securest revenue stream behind them; but the day may yet come when a decision is made that water polo should really be a non-varsity sport, and fencing should go from club sport to varsity sport. But again, that decision will ultimately be made by the central administration and the trustees, and not by the Athletic Department alone.</p>

<p>That’s interesting, bclintock, and it makes a lot of sense. I guess there are risks and benefits to this approach–one risk is that the athletic department, and the football program especially, can perhaps end up with a little too much autonomy.</p>

<p>That is pretty much exactly how Wisconsin is set-up too. Also a portion of the TV and clothing contract money does go to the overall university. Not a ton–around $5 Million-- but that’s not chump change either. Enough to pay for an entire small department in liberal arts.</p>

<p>The athletic department at DD’s school shares profits made from merchandise sales with the general scholarship fund.</p>

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<p>I think the biggest danger is that a coach–especially the football coach, but at some schools it could be men’s basketball–becomes too powerful and unaccountable. Even aside from the Sandusky scandal, it seems pretty clear from stuff that is coming out that this is what happened at Penn State. You need a strong president to hold the athletic director accountable, and you need a strong AD to hold the head coaches accountable. All of them. But when you have a longtime incumbent head coach in football or men’s basketball who has seen a lot of success, he becomes a powerful public figure, overshadowing the AD and the president. ADs and presidents are almost invisible to the public. Players have their moment of glory and then fade away into the record books. But the head coach of a dominant football or basketball program becomes an iconic figure, the public face not only of that athletic program, but of the entire university. Think of JoePa and Penn State, or Coach K and Duke. (Quick now, can you name one senior academic or administrator at Duke, other than Coach K? He not only IS Duke basketball, he is Duke itself in the public’s mind). And with that kind of popular constituency behind him, the coach becomes untouchable; you end up with the AD working for the coach, instead of vice versa, and that’s the end of accountability. You might even end up with the president working for the coach. Ohio State president Gordon Gee was joking during a press conference in the midst of that school’s recent tattoos-for-memorabilia scandal when he said he needed to be careful what he said or head football coach Jim Tressel might fire him, but it was an uncomfortable moment precisely because it came so close to the truth. (Tressel later ended up resigning, presumably forced out). </p>

<p>But I think this is only partly about money, and money may not be the most important part. Football brings in the money, but normally at least, the coach doesn’t control the money; the AD does, under supervision from the president and the trustees. The coach’s power is more a kind of political power, based on celebrity status and adulation from a fan base that includes alumni, students, prospective students, many university employees, local residents, and a broader swath of sports fans who may have no connection to the university other than that they follow its sports teams (or in most cases, just the one or two sports that they care about, usually football and/or men’s basketball). ADs and university presidents are themselves in highly political positions with many constituencies to try to mollify, and their constituencies have a lot of overlap with the coach’s fan base; but they don’t have the same kind of loyal, adoring fans and popular mandate that a long-term successful football or basketball coach has, so politically they’re in a weaker position. The successful coach is Caesar, who can march into Rome and rally the populace at a moment’s notice. Bureaucrats cringe before that kind of power. </p>

<p>I don’t think tinkering with the financial arrangements would change that. I’m not sure what the solution is, apart from ending big-time college sports, which is not going to happen. One thing that seems to work tolerably well is what Wisconsin is going right now: you take a successful coach who’s a loyal institutional player and make him the AD. Then his power and popular constituency can play off against that of the coach, at least for a while, until people start to forget who the AD was in his coaching days. Wisconsin’s got that right now in Barry Alvarez, and as best I can tell he’s doing a terrific job as AD while his successor as head football coach, Bret Bielema, is rapidly building his own popular following. Michigan has done that in the past, too; too of the most iconic coaches in Michigan football history, Fielding H. Yost and Fritz Crisler, were kicked upstairs into the AD’s job while still coaching, then went on to hold the AD’s job for a couple of decades each after retiring from coaching. I think a strong AD who is loyal to the larger institution is the key here. They’re probably pretty hard to find. Fortunately, though, very few football or basketball coaches have the kind of successful run that a JoePa or a Coach K has enjoyed. The fans are fickle and will turn on the coach of a losing program in a heartbeat. So maybe part of the shrewd AD’s job should be to keep the football and basketball programs from becoming too successful; see if you can engineer a losing season every now and then so you have a reason to fire the coach and bring in someone new, or at least diminish the incumbent coach’s stature in the public’s mind to keep him in his place.</p>

<p>My embarrassment, as an American is how to explain to Europeans (friends and spouse’s family) why college football is such a big deal here. To them, college (university, more precisely) is about academics. College football is NOT a big deal for me.
I am with the OP on this.
Way too much emphasis on “college” football players.
Is it time to just let them be pros at age 18?
btw, a lot of posts on this thread, but I caught some snippets of posts about musicians (student applicants) - in our extensive experience/knowledge, admissions for musicians, whether at a School of Music (SOM) at a university or a conservatory of music, are EXTREMELY challenging and comprehensive. In many cases, the academics DO count and standards/grades are WAY higher than those for football players! I would never compare the two situations.
While I respect athletics and athletes…
It is offensive to me, I can state, that high school athletes in water polo, etc., are recruited, given trips out to the east coast, etc., courted and given full rides to places like Princeton. They aren’t going to even be professionals in that…</p>

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<p>It was my understanding that Ivy League schools give neither merit scholarships, nor athletic scholarships, certainly not “full rides.” Has this changed?</p>

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<p>Every country has its priorities. Like it or not, athletics are a big deal here in the USA. But at least we don’t kill over a game like they do in some European countries and others around the world…</p>

<p>No, it has not changed. The Ivies only offer need-based financial aid, except for some research-based scholarships at Cornell. Any student getting a full ride has parents earning under $60,000 per year and thus is probably not playing water polo!</p>

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<p>I guess the question(s) you are trying to answer is,’ Why sports so big in America’? ‘Why is football so big in college?’ </p>

<p>The first is a societal thing, which as an American, if you don’t get ‘why?’ by now… :)</p>

<p>The second, football is big (for reason above) and in college because football pays for nearly every other d1 sport, including women’s sports. If football and men’s basketball were devalued, every other sport would disappear in most publics, including women’s sports, to make “college [solely] about academics”. </p>

<p>And yes, no sports scholarships at the Ivies.</p>

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<p>Los Angeles Coliseum anyone? Where do you think the stadium was invented? Sheesh.</p>

<p>The Bruins wanted to get a good night sleep before the Ducks put 40+ on’em.</p>

<p>The OP has the misconception that big-time athletics is connected to the rest of the institution in ways other than sharing the institutional name. You might as well ask how the Arizona Cardinals can afford to pay their players millions of dollars when they play in University of Phoenix Stadium. They don’t actually have anything to do with the U. of Phoenix - the U. of Phoenix just pays to have their name affiliated with the team. It’s not a perfect analogy with big-time college athletics, but it’s close. You can be assured that if UCLA had not stayed in a $200 a night hotel, the university would not be hiring faculty or lowering tuition with that money. After all, it’s not their money - it’s the Athletic Department’s.</p>

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<p>You are exaggerating. Not only are these “big-time” athletics programs intimately intertwined with campus life and hugely supported by students and alums, they are probably the major reason why many students would even consider attending certain campuses (Notre Dame and USC come to mind), and have contributed to the universities’ global name recognition, enormous endowments, and overall rankings.</p>

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<p>The Europeans invented the stadium (and the big one in Rome is called the Colloseum, not the “Coliseum” as in LA), but what I think strikes the Europeans as strange is not the concept of big time sports but big time sports being put on by or affiliated with universities. </p>

<p>Beyond a few sports played at the the club level, intercollegiate sports do not really exist in Europe. Imagining that a stadium full of screaming fans, or huge beef-on-the-hoof linemen tying to beat each other into jelly, or coaches paid millions of dollars, is somehow legitimately connected to higher learning is ludicrous.</p>

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<p>Which begs the question, why is theirs a better system? It seems to me, that the Europeans have created a bifurcated society where the athletes are uneducated and the educated are unathletic. We offer the opportunity to excel in both.</p>

<p>Forgive me as my foreign education is ancient. But every college at Oxford had a team, in virtually every sport played there, and folks played hard. In addition, there were Blues (the first team) and 2nd and sometimes 3rd teams at the university, playing not only intercollegiately, but internationally. And the boat races were (and are) HUGE. I think that students there were far more likely to participate in sports than at most undergraduate programs in the U.S. True, there were far fewer spectators (except perhaps for the boat race). But the educated (or at least those I knew) tended to be much more athletic.</p>

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<p>Yeah, just like every House at Harvard has athletic teams, and they play very hard too. Here in the US that type of sports competition is called intramurals, and they can be found at countless colleges across the country. Heck, my own daughter was intramural fencing champion of her university. But those intramural athletes are a real students. They have to qualify academically for admission to the same standards as anyone else. They get real educations.</p>

<p>Intramural football is to big time college football what a BB gun is to a howitzer. They have some technical similarities, but the scale, power, and spectacle are so vastly different that they get put to entirely different uses and have entirely different meanings within society. You could legitimately argue that a school sponsoring an intramural program is promoting healthy, vigorous exercise among a wide range of its students. By contrast, schools putting on huge football programs appear mostly to be promoting drinking, painting your face in the school colors and acting like a jerk among some of the students, while at the same time the coaches are engaging in various NCAA cheating violations and scandals, and the faux-students who are actually on the team get showered with perks, public adulation, and sometimes under-the-table payments. That’s education?</p>

<p>But it went further. The University fielded both intercollegiate teams, and international teams. But none of that spectator nonsense (well, yes, people get very drunk after the boat races; they also have dress balls - and people got politely drunk at those as well.) Coaches were NEVER considered members of the faculty.</p>

<p>But then so much at Oxford is (or used to be) intramural, including medical societies, engineering groups, ancient numismatic associations, all drama, most musical activities, etc. None of it was even paid for by the university. People organized themselves according to what interested them, did their own fundraising, passed down their own traditions.</p>

<p>"You can be assured that if UCLA had not stayed in a $200 a night hotel, the university would not be hiring faculty or lowering tuition with that money. After all, it’s not their money - it’s the Athletic Department’s. "</p>

<p>The players have to be students at the university and the Athletic Dept has to be under the institutional control of the university or they run afoul of the NCAA requirements. </p>

<p>Also, the Athletic Dept has very few sports that generate surplus revenue - those that do, pay for the non-revenue generating sports which are important activities to a lot of students, including many women.</p>